Possible marriage

[sweetsunray]

13 hours ago, ThePukwudgie said:

LOL, how about the time he stared at her lips right after he kissed her forehead? Even the forehead kiss by itself is an odd display of affection.

 

I wonder where D&D are planning on going with all this, and whether GRRM will follow.

What's odd about a forehead kiss? Seems completely normal for a brother to his younger sister, or a father to his daughter. And why can't a brother look at his sister's face and smile?

I think that people have seen so little relative positive interactions between two characters since the RW, while the actual romantic interests have been separated from each other for 3 seasons (which is half the series now) that a lot of viewers think those romantic interests have been completely dropped and so now it's - who interacts with who now => so, must be them.

And no GRRM will NOT follow.

[kissdbyfire]

@maja89, calling other people idiots is hardly the way to make a point. 

[JonSnow4President]

You know, I actually used to be a Jonsa guy.  The reason I'm not any more is that multiple people pointed out that that was entirely me putting external reasons for it that weren't actually there.  And this entire time, there was A LOT of text/screen time dedicated to another relationship for Sansa.  I'm less confident who Jon's ultimate love interest should be (I suspect it's Dany end game, but that's based on fulfilling prophecies and projection more than anything), but Sansa's is pretty damn clear.  And it ain't Jon.

[maja89]

27 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said:

If fan shipping meant that two characters got together then Harry would have married Hermione.

honestly I don't know much about it, and trends show that it was pretty equal: https://www.google.pl/trends/explore#q=harry%2Fhermione%2C harry%2Fginny%2C ron%2Fhermione&date=1%2F2004 37m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT-2

but honestly maybe you're right and this was most popular relationship, but these two are really not comparable. HP was very little about romantic relationship and it was book for kids. GoT is full of sex.

besides, "shipping" main male protagonist and main female protonist is kind of obvious choice (and if GoT is any indication - Dany and Jon didn't even share any scenes and still they already have quite a lot of fans), "shipping" supposed siblings is not.

Honestly, my point is not to convince anyone that Jon and Sansa will ever happen. There's huge possibility of them separating next season, Jon or Sansa dying, Jon or Sansa or both getting married to someone else for whatever reason etc.

What I'm trying to say is that when audience all of sudden give so much attention for not so obvious relationship it'is hardly ever just coincidence and usually it's intentional move or manipulation on creator's part

I don't know if it's really what they are going to do (they can as well create all the fuss - with scenes like mentioned above and their contradicting interviews, because they are not idiots and know pretty well, that things like that are the easiest and quickest way to get audience's attention), but believing that it's just a coincidence is pretty naive, I assume

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

@maja89, calling other people idiots is hardly the way to make a point. 

and when did I call anyone that?

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, maja89 said:

honestly I don't know much about it, and trends show that it was pretty equal: https://www.google.pl/trends/explore#q=harry%2Fhermione%2C harry%2Fginny%2C ron%2Fhermione&date=1%2F2004 37m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT-2

but honestly maybe you're right and this was most popular relationship, but these two are really not comparable. HP was very little about romantic relationship and it was book for kids. GoT is full of sex.

besides, "shipping" main male protagonist and main female protonist is kind of obvious choice (and if GoT is any indication - Dany and Jon didn't even share any scenes and still they already have quite a lot of fans), "shipping" supposed siblings is not.

Honestly, my point is not to convince anyone that Jon and Sansa will ever happen. There's huge possibility of them separating next season, Jon or Sansa dying, Jon or Sansa or both getting married to someone else for whatever reason etc.

What I'm trying to say is that when audience all of sudden give so much attention for not so obvious relationship it'is hardly ever just coincidence and usually it's intentional move or manipulation on creator's part

I don't know if it's really what they are going to do (they can as well create all the fuss - with scenes like mentioned above and their contradicting interviews, because they are not idiots and know pretty well, that things like that are the easiest and quickest way to get audience's attention), but believing that it's just a coincidence is pretty naive, I assume

and when did I call anyone that?

If it wasn't you, my apologies. 

[sweetsunray]

2 minutes ago, maja89 said:

What I'm trying to say is that when audience all of sudden give so much attention for not so obvious relationship it'is hardly ever just coincidence and usually it's intentional move or manipulation on creator's part

S3 people were shipping Brienne-Jaime, SanSan, Gendrya and Jon-Ygritte was obvious but fatal. Brienne became a brute and Jaime is always talking about wanting to be with Cersei (aside from one Tarth gaze). Sandor was supposedly dead by end of S4. Gendry has been rowing for 3 seasons. Those ships seem to have been completely abandoned for at least 2 seasons for a show-only (1/3 to 1/2 of the series). Meanwhile almost all of the remaining interactions have been mostly negative, cruel, abusive and dark between characters. So, people want to see something positive, and they wanna see romance, wanna see who gets to go with whom, while thinking the set-up romances are completely abandoned (they're not). There's a slightly more positive reunion and interaction between two siblings, and bam "ship". When the show runners "ship" two characters nowadays they have Bronn around to tell the viewer those two want to fuck each other, so you won't miss it.  

[Le Cygne]

17 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

When the show runners "ship" two characters nowadays they have Bronn around to tell the viewer those two want to fuck each other, so you won't miss it.  

Agreed. The showrunners have repeatedly stressed that this is just brother and sister with trust issues. And that's the way most I have seen view it, too. There was a hug (and she hugged Theon twice) and a brotherly forehead kiss (which didn't seem to do the trick), but they have been very consistent with that very thing, siblings with trust issues. And unfortunately, they made her the bad guy, just like they made Catelyn the bad guy. She's been manipulating and lying to him, and there's been a lot of resentment toward her among viewers as a result. Many are afraid she will betray him.

[Karmarni]

27 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

What's odd about a forehead kiss? Seems completely normal for a brother to his younger sister, or a father to his daughter. And why can't a brother look at his sister's face and smile?

I think that people have seen so little relative positive interactions between two characters since the RW, while the actual romantic interests have been separated from each other for 3 seasons (which is half the series now) that a lot of viewers think those romantic interests have been completely dropped and so now it's - who interacts with who now => so, must be them.

And no GRRM will NOT follow.

Agree. And cannot emphatically stress enough how much GRRM has said repeatedly that he will go forward with his own plans, as he has planned from the first novel. The characters may grow and change, and surprise him time to time, but they would certainly by extremely self-conscious, convoluted characters destined for the loony bin if they all of a sudden stepped into some other book character's role.

Now that would be funny! Imagine Sansa coming upon Jeyne and saying, "Jeyne, I love you like a sister. Let's just write you out of the novel and I will gladly take your place and marry Ramsay Bolton."

*Clang* - Loony bin door slams shut.

[Winter's Cold]

1 hour ago, WolfClaw said:

In the books or in the movies? Remember two different mediums.

Both.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Honestly I think what we have here is accidental chemistry, nothing intentional, and nothing that will come to anything.  

Did anyone see Xmen First Class here?  A lot of people responded to the quite clearly accidental sexual tension between Charles and Erik.  Both characters are definitely straight, but it seemed like every other scene they were about to make out...  Turns out that the director said in interviews he specifically cast the role of Erik/Magneto by pairing actors with McAvoy and looking for the strongest chemistry, and landed on Fassbender.  It seems like he just picked a liiitle bit TOO well. 

in this case they already cast Kit and Sophie years ago, so whatever chemistry they had would already be there, there was no choice. That doesn't mean the characters are actually sexually interested in each other.  They have deep feelings and demonstrate that  - sometimes people misinterpret this as solely romantic depending on actor chemistry.  It's really no different.  Anyway, I didn't personally see anything that triggered that feeling in me (unlike First Class).  But I could see how it might for some. *shrug*

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

This is getting ugly so let's drop Jon/Sansa for now. There is plenty of other thing to talk about & I don't want the thread closed.

SanSan isn't happening, we're going to get "Clegain Bowl" instead & he will die.

Littlefinger/Sansa isn't happening, his days are numbered.

Jon/Dany is most likely happening, because it's the most logical conclusion.

Sweet Robin is likely to die. 

Sand Snakes to untrustworthy.

Gendry missing.

Frankly besides Jon/Dany Thormond/Brennie seem like the most likely right now

[sweetsunray]

3 minutes ago, Winds of Winter blow cold said:

This is getting ugly so let's drop Jon/Sansa for now. There is plenty of other thing to talk about & I don't want the thread closed.

SanSan isn't happening, we're going to get "Clegain Bowl" instead & he will die.

Littlefinger/Sansa isn't happening, his days are numbered.

Jon/Dany is most likely happening, because it's the most logical conclusion.

Sweet Robin is likely to die. 

Sand Snakes to untrustworthy.

Gendry missing.

Frankly besides Jon/Dany Thormond/Brennie seem like the most likely right now

Since when is Gregor up North?

Gendry can still go un-missing.

Brienne wasn't keen on Thormund ogling her.

[JonSnow4President]

I think Cleganebowl (executed in a certain way) could be a remote possibility, but I would never say it was probable, or use it as a basis to dismiss a ship based on strong existing feelings in both characters as "not happening."

[maja89]

10 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Honestly I think what we have here is accidental chemistry, nothing intentional, and nothing that will come to anything.  

Did anyone see Xmen First Class here?  A lot of people responded to the quite clearly accidental sexual tension between Charles and Erik.  Both characters are definitely straight, but it seemed like every other scene they were about to make out...  Turns out that the director said in interviews he specifically cast the role of Erik/Magneto by pairing actors with McAvoy and looking for the strongest chemistry, and landed on Fassbender.  It seems like he just picked a liiitle bit TOO well. 

in this case they already cast Kit and Sophie years ago, so whatever chemistry they had would already be there, there was no choice. That doesn't mean the characters are actually sexually interested in each other.  They have deep feelings and demonstrate that  - sometimes people misinterpret this as solely romantic depending on actor chemistry.  It's really no different.  Anyway, I didn't personally see anything that triggered that feeling in me (unlike First Class).  But I could see how it might for some. *shrug*

 

that might be the case as well. As much as no chemistry between two characters in romantic relationship can have awful affect in TV show or movie, too much chemistry can destroy it as well

IDK, these scenes are weird. It also seems like they tried so much to show their akwardness around each other (or better say Jon's akwardness) that it can be easily mistaken as "falling in love" akwardness.

but yet again, it can be just them showing that Jon is not get used to women, like at all

[Karmarni]

24 minutes ago, Winds of Winter blow cold said:

This is getting ugly so let's drop Jon/Sansa for now. There is plenty of other thing to talk about & I don't want the thread closed.

SanSan isn't happening, we're going to get "Clegain Bowl" instead & he will die.

Littlefinger/Sansa isn't happening, his days are numbered.

Jon/Dany is most likely happening, because it's the most logical conclusion.

Sweet Robin is likely to die. 

Sand Snakes to untrustworthy.

Gendry missing.

Frankly besides Jon/Dany Thormond/Brennie seem like the most likely right now

I think SanSan is happening. I don't think we'll get Cleganebowl, at all. It's laughable, the redbubble stuff that's available for "Cleganebowl 2016"!!! Ooops, missed it guys. Sorry, Charlie.

I think Sweetrobin lives and Gendry will be found. And Thormond made eyes at Brienne, a character he's yet to meet in the books. Please apply all my thoughts concerning Jon and Sansa to Thormond and Brienne. That's a show only funsie thrown in.

[A spoon of knife and fork]

Shipping in asoiaf has always been a hard business - people tend to die!  Or be torn apart for other reasons.

I'm biased but really think The only ship that is worth sailing book or show is Brienne / Jaime (sorry TarthBane folks).  

Though, how about Yara / Dany - the show so far hasn't explored Danys heteroflexibility.  And Yara is "up for anything really"   Doubt it would be anything but a bit of fun / bonding, nothing serious.

I remember after ep 1 people were shipping Sansa with Pod!  Podrick Payne is technically highborn, and he's such a sweet lad, if he survives the trip back north with Brienne...  Why not let Sansa have some happiness with a decent loyal person roughly her own age?

Cersei / Euron will happen in some form.  Maybe just teased, maybe actually sex if they want to do the "Jaime breaks with Cersei because he's jealous" thing.

Tyrion / Dany vibes were picked up by some.  Clearly their admiration for each other is growing steadily.  Unclear if they go beyond that.  Both of them have more pressing matters to attend to - like conquering the world for example.  

I don't think SanSan exists in the show.

I would love to see Gendry / Arya.  It's possible Gendry could inherit Storms End if legitimized by Jon or Dany. There is no Edric Storm in the show.  But I guess Gendry never comes back.

[JonSnow4President]

4 minutes ago, Karmarni said:

I think SanSan is happening. I don't think we'll get Cleganebowl, at all. It's laughable, the redbubble stuff that's available for "Cleganebowl 2016"!!! Ooops, missed it guys. Sorry, Charlie.

I think Sweetrobin lives and Gendry will be found. And Thormond made eyes at Brienne, a character he's yet to meet in the books. Please apply all my thoughts concerning Jon and Sansa to Thormond and Brienne. That's a show only funsie thrown in.

I think Cleganebowl could work if Sandor is not fighting unGregor because of hatred, but rather to save Sansa or to put him to rest.  But that doesn't particularly fit with the Cleganebowl Get Hype! take on it, and it requires some other pieces to come to pass for it to conceivably be able to work within Martin's story that I'm not confident of at all, which is why I say possible but not probable.  Regardless, using it as a basis for why a relationship can't work is ludicrous.  

[JonSnow4President]

5 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Cersei / Euron will happen in some form.  Maybe just teased, maybe actually sex if they want to do the "Jaime breaks with Cersei because he's jealous" thing.

I don't think SanSan exists in the show.

 

 I just want to put these together.  I think it says a lot about what you see/don't see in the show.

[Le Cygne]

27 minutes ago, Karmarni said:

I think SanSan is happening. I don't think we'll get Cleganebowl, at all. It's laughable, the redbubble stuff that's available for "Cleganebowl 2016"!!! Ooops, missed it guys. Sorry, Charlie.

I think Sweetrobin lives and Gendry will be found. And Thormond made eyes at Brienne, a character he's yet to meet in the books. Please apply all my thoughts concerning Jon and Sansa to Thormond and Brienne. That's a show only funsie thrown in.

Yeah, they condensed plots and people who aren't supposed to be in various places are, and they are giving them stuff to do. 

They have been doing this sort of thing ever since he left. Season 4 they had a blast with the parallels. Even season 5, Ramsay says he expected a bearded beast but got a beauty. 

Then season 6... Sandor is back 2 episodes and they had him whip out his penis in the middle of a convo about heading north to do good. And they went right back to the same riffs...

She drinks soup like the Beast now. There are more important things, she says. And she tries ale again. Right on cue, Sandor has a soup and ale scene. "I'll save you a bowl of soup, might even some ale hidden away." He smiles. There will be another ale scene, with him, and I bet Sansa will like it...

Another, Sandor asks, if the gods are real, why haven't they punished me, and is told they have. That cuts to Margaery reading from the book of the seven, "soothing what was jagged, a woman's love calms a man's brute nature." Then another, Sansa, who mentions Blackwater, writing for help, cut to Sandor, and Ray tells him it's never too late to come back (before he said ask her who came back for her).

This is all building on the story on the show before, the riffs from the books...

[A spoon of knife and fork]

2 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

 I just want to put these together.  I think it says a lot about what you see/don't see in the show.

I mean, Maybe it's just ST being so young, esp in season 2 when they last met but the thought of any romance with RM is just... Squicky. Plus they intentionally left out most of the "shippy" book parts.  Like the cloak he gave her, demanding a kiss, pushing her down onto the bed, Sansa fantasizing about him later, etc...  It really seems that they chose to write SanSan out of the show - do you disagree?

meanwhile circumstances will put Cereei and Euron together.  They are both politically powerful, unmarried, and sadistic assholes.  I don't have any fondness for the match - I don't "ship" it - but it makes sense as something that will happen.