Possible marriage

[Bear Claw]

9 hours ago, Wilnova said:

Are you talking about the books? I can see Sansa being important as a political alliance on the show where Rickon is dead and there is no Robb's will. But in the books, it's a whole different ball game. Sansa is way - way down the inheritance chart, even below Arya. By Robb's will she is currently disinherited (Robb's will is known to and signed by Edmure, Maege Mormont, Galbart Glover etc.) The same will has also legitimized Jon and named him KITN. So we have Manderly supporting Rickon and some houses possibly supporting Jon. We also have the mountain clans marching with Stannis for Arya. Meanwhile Edmure is expecting a child. The Riverlands go to him and his descendants. The Vale goes to SR or to Harry the Heir. So in effect, Sansa's political worth in the books is zero. Marrying her may give someone the support of her siblings but that's about it.

Jon certainly does not need to marry Sansa in the books for any alliance. Just looking at the witnesses to Robb's will, we see that the Riverlands had no issue with Jon being named KITN. Or with Sansa being disinherited. Jon already has the North and the Riverlands. If Sansa marries SR or HH, then she could convince her husband to help Jon with a Vale army. Other wise she has no control over the Vale either. Her marrying Jon is not going to get Jon the Vale. Plus, Sansa is still married to Tyrion. On the other hand, Arya is still in line to inherit WF (If Bran and Rickon die). Jon marrying Arya makes more sense than marrying Sansa.

They have basically confirmed more or less the same thing on the show. The North overlooks Sansa and names Jon KITN despite the true heir Sansa sitting right there. Even the Vale seems to support him. The Blackfish is dead. Not sure about Edmure. But on the show, they seem to be indicating that Jon does not need to marry anyone for the North, Vale or Riverlands. Which means he needs to marry for the South and the Iron Islands. And who is bringing him those armies along with some fire breathing dragons? I think the show has pointed the arrows clearly towards Jon and Dany tying the knot.

I think these blood ties are important in the books and the show. I think her blood ties must be one of the reasons LF sees a way to get the Iron Throne . As for Robb's will, I am not an expert in Westeros history, but I know of at least two occassions where a KIng tried to name his heirs (Rhayenyra T. and Blackfyre) and it didn't work out so well. How it will play out in the North? I don't know, but based on what I know of Westerosi history, naming heirs is questionable. I would think that Edmure in the Riverlands would not approve of Cat's children being disinherited, and someone (Robin, Harry, LF) in the Vale might not like it either. 

Jon already has the North and the Riverlands? Why would the Riverlands care anything about Jon? They prize family. Jon isn't family and he is  Ned's bastard. Cat didn't like Jon and her family probably doesn't like him  either. 

I am not saying it is going to happen, but I can see where it might happen. The show is indicating Dany/Jon. However, Sansa, Bran, and Arya have strong family alliances. That is a fact. These three would make great marriage candidates for anyone who wants alliances. Jon has the support of the North, but he lacks connections to other houses. Yes, Dany and Jon have armies/dragons, but to me they don't have  the ties to Westeros that make their reigns really meaningful. Bran, Arya, and Sansa  (even Sweetrobin) are Westeros. 

 

 

[Future Null Infinity]

1 hour ago, JonSnow4President said:

Personally, if we're talking books, I think Jon and Dany (and possibly Tyrion) all go through 3 "marriages," and if you squint enough, all 3 dragon riders are going to loosely fit the 3 marriages prophecy.  (I could be WAAAAY off base on that though, so I won't argue for it to forcefully).  So I think Val is Jon's #2, and like Tyrion's and Dany's #2, it will be short lived.

I see your point, but imo, I think that 5 upcoming marriages is too much for the story 

[JonSnow4President]

2 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I see your point, but imo, I think that 5 upcoming marriages is too much for the story 

Depends.  I think you could have a large number at the end, as conflicts among different players get resolved short of pure and utter defeat. 

Just curious, who are your 5 if we're going with my situation?  Jon/Val, Jon/Dany, Tyrion/X, Sansa/Y, and who else? Or do you think Jon/Dany isn't an option?

[Future Null Infinity]

Just now, JonSnow4President said:

Just curious, who are your 5 if we're going with my situation?  Jon/Val, Jon/Dany, Tyrion/X, Sansa/Y, and who else? Or do you think Jon/Dany isn't an option?

my actual thought is that I don't think it will be any marriage in the upcoming seasons, it's just an opinion but I think the most propable is Jon/Dany but my problem with that marriage that they will be devastated by the truth after their marriage, and if this happens maybe the devastation will play a role in the story.

my 5 (I'm not a book reader but I will say 'book only') : Jon/Val, Jon/Arya, Jon/Dany (2)  and Tyrion/Sansa (I counted it like a re-marriage) 

[JonSnow4President]

10 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

my actual thought is that I don't think it will be any marriage in the upcoming seasons, it's just an opinion but I think the most propable is Jon/Dany but my problem with that marriage that they will be devastated by the truth after their marriage, and if this happens maybe the devastation will play a role in the story.

my 5 (I'm not a book reader but I will say 'book only') : Jon/Val, Jon/Arya, Jon/Dany (2)  and Tyrion/Sansa (I counted it like a re-marriage) 

I would really recommend reading the books.  If you pay even an iota of attention, it will take away one of those. Although if you're enjoying the show, I would wait another 2 years. 

[Future Null Infinity]

9 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

I would really recommend reading the books.  If you pay even an iota of attention, it will take away one of those. Although if you're enjoying the show, I would wait another 2 years. 

Thank you very much for the advice, much appreciated

[JonSnow4President]

2 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Thank you very much for the advice, much appreciated

I think it will make a lot of arguments more understandable.  I think without the book, I would laugh at anyone arguing SanSan solely from the show and their comments.  But knowing what is going on in the books, their adherence to what appear to be the highest level outline version of the book plot (what we call the checklist effect), paired with their comments and what they appear to be trying to do in the show makes it clear they are trying to set the groundwork for it.  

[Future Null Infinity]

15 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

I think it will make a lot of arguments more understandable.  I think without the book, I would laugh at anyone arguing SanSan solely from the show and their comments.  But knowing what is going on in the books, their adherence to what appear to be the highest level outline version of the book plot (what we call the checklist effect), paired with their comments and what they appear to be trying to do in the show makes it clear they are trying to set the groundwork for it.  

I like your comment, thanks, I will read them, that's for sure, it just the past years I was a bit lazy and I have other books to read (computer engineering), I'm sure that I will read them because I want to see with my own eyes about many things I never understood until now 

[WolfClaw]

And here I thought this was the TV series section of this forum and not the book section. I still do not understand why some posters here, who seem to hate the changes that TV series made to the books so much as to hate the show itself, still watch it, but each to his own.

 

Anyway, the two relationship that were "downplayed" in the show are Jon/Arya and Sansa/Sandor. Of course I do not count the relationships between people that they do not exist in the TV series like Val and Harry the Heir (thank god for that). There must be a reason behind that. I understand that it is difficult to do that in a TV series when two people are separate, but they could give some hints about that. And there lies the problem. There are literally no hints about Sansa mentioning or thinking Sandor since they are separated. There is also the fact that some of their "key" moments are changed from the books.

[WolfClaw]

55 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I like your comment, thanks, I will read them, that's for sure, it just the past years I was a bit lazy and I have other books to read (computer engineering), I'm sure that I will read them because I want to see with my own eyes about many things I never understood until now 

No pressure there. After all, George R. R. Martin does not seem to be in a hurry to finish his work.

[JonSnow4President]

2 hours ago, WolfClaw said:

And here I thought this was the TV series section of this forum and not the book section. I still do not understand why some posters here, who seem to hate the changes that TV series made to the books so much as to hate the show itself, still watch it, but each to his own.

 

Anyway, the two relationship that were "downplayed" in the show are Jon/Arya and Sansa/Sandor. Of course I do not count the relationships between people that they do not exist in the TV series like Val and Harry the Heir (thank god for that). There must be a reason behind that. I understand that it is difficult to do that in a TV series when two people are separate, but they could give some hints about that. And there lies the problem. There are literally no hints about Sansa mentioning or thinking Sandor since they are separated. There is also the fact that some of their "key" moments are changed from the books.

Given the cinematic elements that tie them together, and some pretty telling looks back in earlier seasons, I think this is just a quirk of D&D's writing "style." They establish some things early, then let them go off on their own, then bring a ton back in and shove a crap ton of "foreshadowing" in immediately before the event.  

R+L=J they cut off and only have a couple remote hints between seasons 2 and 5.  

Additionally, they're pretty god awful at writing/communicating with directors/actors for what they want the characters to act like.  What appears on screen often contradicts with what they discuss in commentary, and often has a myriad of different reactions among show fans (Sansa end of this season being a prime example).  I'm not even including "ranters' in that, but just the people that like the show.

[Le Cygne]

4 hours ago, JonSnow4President said:

I think it will make a lot of arguments more understandable.  I think without the book, I would laugh at anyone arguing SanSan solely from the show and their comments.  But knowing what is going on in the books, their adherence to what appear to be the highest level outline version of the book plot (what we call the checklist effect), paired with their comments and what they appear to be trying to do in the show makes it clear they are trying to set the groundwork for it.  

Actually there are a lot of show only SanSan fans. And there really was a lot of setup. But it's much more obvious when you know what's going on in the books, that's true. And there's more.

I posted some reviews and reactions upthread, but Lena Headey and Peter Dinklage didn't read the books, and were saying there was love and singing Beauty and the Beast during the commentary.

[Le Cygne]

1 hour ago, JonSnow4President said:

Given the cinematic elements that tie them together, and some pretty telling looks back in earlier seasons, I think this is just a quirk of D&D's writing "style." They establish some things early, then let them go off on their own, then bring a ton back in and shove a crap ton of "foreshadowing" in immediately before the event.  

R+L=J they cut off and only have a couple remote hints between seasons 2 and 5.  

Additionally, they're pretty god awful at writing/communicating with directors/actors for what they want the characters to act like.  What appears on screen often contradicts with what they discuss in commentary, and often has a myriad of different reactions among show fans (Sansa end of this season being a prime example).  I'm not even including "ranters' in that, but just the people that like the show.

Exactly, that's the way they do things. And they actually spent a lot of time setting this one up.

[Lady Ren]

On 19/07/2016 at 5:34 PM, ThePukwudgie said:

For all you know D&D are still loosely translating what GRRM told them endgame would look like.

This. 

Also - i do think sansa and sandor are gonna hookup/romance etc next season. Not closure. But a true reunion. Sandor and sanaa have an old world courtly vibe though. While.he has roughened her edges a bit, and shes softened him, I dont see them walking off into the sunset. I do see a follow up though. 

Jon and Sansa is speculation - like fresh

 So its just fun to think about. No bitterness. 

[Bear Claw]

Someone should have brought up Sandor at SDCC.

[Le Cygne]

When Turner is asked if Jon and Sansa as something romantic will ever happen, she makes a face, everyone on the panel makes faces, the crowd laughs. Asked about issues if that happened, Conleth Hill says "deformed ones." Turner says they "have grown up together, they may as well be siblings, they have that sibling rivalry" and "nothing will happen." She says to Benioff and Weiss "If you make something happen, I am going to kill you. I don't want to take part." Weiss says "it hadn't occurred to us" to go there.

[Bear Claw]

49 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

When Turner is asked if Jon and Sansa as something romantic will ever happen, she makes a face, everyone on the panel makes faces, the crowd laughs. Asked about issues if that happened, Conleth Hill says "deformed ones." Turner says they "have grown up together, they may as well be siblings, they have that sibling rivalry" and "nothing will happen." She says to Benioff and Weiss "If you make something happen, I am going to kill you. I don't want to take part." Weiss says "it hadn't occurred to us" to go there.

I was thinking that the production video for season 7 might have a Sandor hint because it showed the kennels. Also, the set they were building resembles the Lord's chamber from season 1, I think they wrote Sansa's chamber on some  building material, and someone was stacking what looked like fur blankets. Her chamber is being highlighted. Maybe she is just going to have meetings there, kind of like Cersei did at least once in season 1. Still I wish they would have asked Sophie about what she thinks about Sandor heading North or even Tyrion (her ex) returning to Westeros. She has already answered the Jonsa questions recently, and everyone knew what the response was going to be. 

[TheLastLibrarian]

A comparison between Sansa and Arya beauties :
"Arya Underfoot, he almost said. Arya Horseface. Robb's younger sister, brown-haired, long-faced, skinny as a stick. Always dirty." Theon Greyjoy

"You have your mother's eyes. Honest eyes, and innocent. Blue as a sunlit sea. When you are a little older, many a man will drown in those eyes." Petyr Baelish to Sansa

They said Arya is as beautiful as Lyanna, they said  the closest one to compare with Arya is Brienne of Tarth, some people here need to understand that including a romance in a psychopath's story is contradictory

 

[Evarei]

There will be no Jon x Sansa, Jon x Arya, Sansa x Sandor, Sansa x Tyrion, Arya x Gendry in the TV series. There's a small chance for Jon x Daenerys and Sansa x Petyr and that's being bold in speculation. Six seasons in and we've had a couple romance subplots, they're not going to start pairing characters up with only 13 episodes left to wrap up all the storylines and resolve the endgame. They can afford time for a political marriage.

[Le Cygne]

Well, in just two episodes, they said Sandor is a more thoughtful person who wants to do good, and sent him Sansa's way, and they had lots of scenes together before to build on, lots of hints in between, and plenty of time to go there for the last part of the story. The separation period is part of the romance, it's there in the books, too. So yeah, plenty of time for that.

Also, plenty of time for Littlefinger to die...