Possible marriage

[Lina815]

20 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

 I think that Jon and Dany marrying, but with Jon an unwilling partner also leads to the treason for/to love. 

Yes this is exactly what I am thinking....

[Meera of Tarth]

5 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

The people who are rooting for Jon and Arya as romance can be counted using only fingers, they are superposing the very old original outline (specifically the arya/jon/tyrion love triangle) on the actual story missing the point that the 2 stories are totally different in every aspect and also they failed to see that in the books the relationship is purely brother/sister.

For the Sansan, I don't know how it can be a romance, Sandor almost killed Sansa in the Battle of the Blackwater

I think that GRRM was going for the love triangle (arya/jon/tyrion) but he found that finishing the story with an incest between Jon and Arya is very damaging for the tale and the readers will be disgusted with it so he transferred the incest to Cersei and Jaime and created Ygritte, I'm fairly sure that in show we will not see Jon romantically involved with Arya, Sansa or Daenerys neither Sandor/Sansa

But Sandor didn't want to kill Sansa, on the contrary, he has saved her many times.

[Future Null Infinity]

9 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

But Sandor didn't want to kill Sansa, on the contrary, he has saved her many times.

"Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life."

 

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

"Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life."

 

Well, this is the passage (better read it in context):

Quote

 

The blood masked the worst of his scars, but his eyes were white and wide and terrifying. The burnt corner of his mouth twitched and twitched again. Sansa could smell him; a stink of sweat and sour wine and stale vomit, and over it all the reek of blood, blood, blood.

_{"I could keep you safe,"}he rasped. "They're all afraid of me. No one would hurt you again, or I'd kill them." He yanked her closer, and for a moment she thought he meant to kiss her. He was too strong to fight. She closed her eyes, wanting it to be over, but nothing happened. "Still can't bear to look, can you?" she heard him say. He gave her arm a hard wrench, pulling her around and shoving her down onto the bed. "I'll have that song. Florian and Jonquil, you said." His dagger was out, poised at her throat. "Sing, little bird. Sing for your little life."

Her throat was dry and tight with fear, and every song she had ever known had fled from her mind. Please don't kill me, she wanted to scream, please don't. She could feel him twisting the point, pushing it into her throat, and she almost closed her eyes again, but then she remembered. It was not the song of Florian and Jonquil, but it was a song. Her voice sounded small and thin and tremulous in her ears.

Gentle Mother, font of mercy,

save our sons from war, we pray,

stay the swords and stay the arrows,

let them know a better day.

Gentle Mother, strength of women,

help our daughters through this fray,

soothe the wrath and tame the fury,

teach us all a kinder way.

 

She had forgotten the other verses. When her voice trailed off, she feared he might kill her, but after a moment the Hound took the blade from her throat, never speaking.

Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. "Little bird," he said once more, his voice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps.

 

He is actually saying that she should pray for her life (because of the war!!!!), and she does so because she has faith and Sandor knows it. In fact, she does it many other times:

 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Sansa V

She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole, for old drunken King Robert, for Septa Mordane and Ser Dontos and Jory Cassel and Maester Luwin, for all the brave knights and soldiers who would die today, and for the children and the wives who would mourn them, and finally, toward the end, she even sang for Tyrion the Imp and for the Hound. He is no true knight but he saved me all the same, she told the Mother. Save him if you can, and gentle the rage inside him.

 

 

So while to some people it might seem the Hound is an assassin who "threats girls into singing or either he will kim them" that is not the case. Before that he tells her he will keep her safe, inviting her to be with him, and he would never hurt her. 

The whole thing with the dagger is purely symbolic of sexuality (and in the context after he puts her in the bed which is telling about the meaning). 

But while she is singing he leaves. He wants her to be safe, and thus he makes her sing the song, because he knows that is what makes her stay calm. He doesn't hurt her nor force her to do anything. And The kiss doesn't happen. They are close, only that. The tone is romantic. 

But the most important of it is HER RESPONSE:

Quote

Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. "Little bird," he said once more, his voice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps.

She is caressing his face, instinctively in response of his dagger-dick. 

He then names her Little Bird again, while he leaves.

 

In the show it is more simple, he offers her to leave KG with him, while she realises he would never hurt her. Here, also, he doesn't want to hurt her at all. There is a long gaze when she realises that. And the tone  is romantic too.

 

[Mandzipop]

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Well, this is the passage (better read it in context):

He is actually saying that she should pray for her life (because of the war!!!!), and she does so because she has faith and Sandor knows it. In fact, she does it many other times:

 

So while to some people it might seem the Hound is an assassin who "threats girls into singing or either he will kim them" that is not the case. Before that he tells her he will keep her safe, inviting her to be with him, and he would never hurt her. 

The whole thing with the dagger is purely symbolic of sexuality (and in the context after he puts her in the bed which is telling about the meaning). 

But while she is singing he leaves. He wants her to be safe, and thus he makes her sing the song, because he knows that is what makes her stay calm. He doesn't hurt her nor force her to do anything. And The kiss doesn't happen. They are close, only that. The tone is romantic. 

But the most important of it is HER RESPONSE:

She is caressing his face, instinctively in response of his dagger-dick. 

He then names her Little Bird again, while he leaves.

 

In the show it is more simple, he offers her to leave KG with him, while she realises he would never hurt her. Here, also, he doesn't want to hurt her at all. There is a long gaze when she realises that. And the tone  is romantic too.

 

No offence but I saw the show first and I saw a man in his 40's and a 14/15 year old girl. Why would it enter my head that he was more than a guardian angel or fatherly type figure? I don't see beauty and the beast in that story, I can't see how a man in  his 40's and a 14/15 year old girl can be viewed as romantic, in my mind it is sick. And nobody can change my opinion on that, regardless of how many examples and excerpts and illustrations are shown to me.

I don't really care what the characters get up to in the consensual sex department as long as it is between adults.

On topic, Sophie let something slip out that

Spoiler

now she knows who Jon is, the won't view him as her brother but as a Targaryan.

Cheers Sophie, that was a was a nice little tidbit for next season. That means it could go 2 ways, either she'll view him as the enemy or she'll see him as a possible marriage prospect. The source of the discovery may determine her opinion of Jon.

The show has set up Dany and Jon though. Even though I think it is quite clear they would make each other miserable. Dany tends to thrive around positve people and people who make her smile. That is not one of Jon's strong points. However, Jon does have a lot going for him. Politically, Jon is the most eligible bachelor in Westeros. Has geographically, almost half of Westeros under his command, he is extremely good looking, fit body and like her, he has an ability to inspire people. She wants power, the world and everything. He just wants to get rid of the Whitewalkers and have a quiet life.

What is an interesting concept is why Targaryans seem to automatically have the hots for their siblings. Is it nature or nurture? Is it visual? Is it the perception of siblings? I'm not sure we'll ever get that question answered.

[Meera of Tarth]

7 minutes ago, Mandzipop said:

No offence but I saw the show first and I saw a man in his 40's and a 14/15 year old girl. Why would it enter my head that he was more than a guardian angel or fatherly type figure? I don't see beauty and the beast in that story, I can't see how a man in  his 40's and a 14/15 year old girl can be viewed as romantic, in my mind it is sick. And nobody can change my opinion on that, regardless of how many examples and excerpts and illustrations are shown to me.

I don't really care what the characters get up to in the consensual sex department as long as it is between adults.

The ages bother me a little also but considering it was an error (that later the author mentioned for all his younger characters and considering he wanted to let 5 years pass but finally couldn't) I think the most important thing is the story he is telling and how the characters are feeling. It's not a matter of liking it or not (that would depend on the viewer/reader) but if it makes sense and Sansa wants it, I don't know why it can't happen in a future.

I also saw the show first and didn't see the Beauty and The Beast story, but I saw they had a relationship based on being fiathful to eachother. Then I read the books and this, and also with the forum/Internet I saw that the love story exists. About the ages, in the books the age gap is about 14 years. I think Rory is a little bit older for the character but we should take into account that Peter Dinklage is also of his generation and is playing someone 10 yeras younger, so we can expect The Hound to be 10 years younger as well in the show. That would make an age gap of around 20 years, bigger than in the books but not as much as it would seem. However, considering than in the show we are supposed to believe that Sansa is about 18now, she is an adult, so anything can happen and I'd like her to be with who she decides to.

Quote

 

On topic, Sophie let something slip out that

  Hide contents

now she knows who Jon is, the won't view him as her brother but as a Targaryan.

Cheers Sophie, that was a was a nice little tidbit for next season. That means it could go 2 ways, either she'll view him as the enemy or she'll see him as a possible marriage prospect. The source of the discovery may determine her opinion of Jon.

The show has set up Dany and Jon though. Even though I think it is quite clear they would make each other miserable. Dany tends to thrive around positve people and people who make her smile. That is not one of Jon's strong points. However, Jon does have a lot going for him. Politically, Jon is the most eligible bachelor in Westeros. Has geographically, almost half of Westeros under his command, he is extremely good looking, fit body and like her, he has an ability to inspire people. She wants power, the world and everything. He just wants to get rid of the Whitewalkers and have a quiet life.

What is an interesting concept is why Targaryans seem to automatically have the hots for their siblings. Is it nature or nurture? Is it visual? Is it the perception of siblings? I'm not sure we'll ever get that question answered.

 

I think it would go the former way, but they could play it the other way too if they want to invent things-or considering how the political status quo was left in Winds of Winter with a King in The North and Sansa as Lady of Winterfell.. If they are adapting the story I highly doubt that Sansa will have any love relationship with her half-brother (or cousin now but raised with her as a half-brother).

My bets are that Bran will reappear and the issue (political marriage between Sansa and Jon) will be resolved. However, that would possibly be too perfect.

[Mandzipop]

7 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

The ages bother me a little also but considering it was an error (that later the author mentioned for all his younger characters and considering he wanted to let 5 years pass but finally couldn't) I think the most important thing is the story he is telling and how the characters are feeling. It's not a matter of liking it or not (that would depend on the viewer/reader) but if it makes sense and Sansa wants it, I don't know why it can't happen in a future.

I also saw the show first and didn't see the Beauty and The Beast story, but I saw they had a relationship based on being fiathful to eachother. Then I read the books and this, and also with the forum/Internet I saw that the love story exists. About the ages, in the books the age gap is about 14 years. I think Rory is a little bit older for the character but we should take into account that Peter Dinklage is also of his generation and is playing someone 10 yeras younger, so we can expect The Hound to be 10 years younger as well in the show. That would make an age gap of around 20 years, bigger than in the books but not as much as it would seem. However, considering than in the show we are supposed to believe that Sansa is about 18now, she is an adult, so anything can happen and I'd like her to be with who she decides to.

I think it would go the former way, but they could play it the other way too if they want to invent things-or considering how the political status quo was left in Winds of Winter with a King in The North and Sansa as Lady of Winterfell.. If they are adapting the story I highly doubt that Sansa will have any love relationship with her half-brother (or cousin now but raised with her as a half-brother).

My bets are that Bran will reappear and the issue (political marriage between Sansa and Jon) will be resolved. However, that would possibly be too perfect.

Rory is about 27 years older than Sophie. I think the ages of the actors prevents the beauty and the beast aspect being obvious in the show to the general viewing audience who have never read the books.

I'm not entirely sure that there is time to set up SanSan now. It would be required to start from scratch, I've got a feeling that the Hound will head south not north in season 7. My reasoning is that I think he will go with Arya. She needs saving from herself. She is turning into a blood thirsty homicidal maniac. She is developing an unhealthy blood lust. I think the only person who can save her from herself is the Hound.

I think the decision to send Sansa to Winterfell was the death knell of SanSan in the show. I think they possibly found that conveying the Hound as an almost heroic figure, yet he had tendancies leaning towards paedophilia. I don't think it can be accurately portrayed on screen whilst still keeping the Hound as a sympathetic character. People find the whole Littlefinger situation creepy and Aiden is exactly one year older than Rory (to the day, they both share the same birthday).

Why I question whether the Targaryan incest thing is nature or nurture. I think Jon is going to show some of his true Targaryan nature in season 7.  He does share the natural ability to inspire others with Dany. This does appear to be a trait that Rhaegar also possessed. Not entirely sure whether that is a trait that all non-mad Targaryans shared. Maester Aemon was well loved.

[The Arthur Smith]

1 hour ago, Mandzipop said:

What is an interesting concept is why Targaryans seem to automatically have the hots for their siblings. Is it nature or nurture? Is it visual? Is it the perception of siblings? I'm not sure we'll ever get that question answered.

Probably cause in this case, the siblings weren't raised together, like brought up together. As far as i know, the Egyptians did something to make the marriage of the sibling or cousins at least more tolerable between them.  They would raised the girls and boys separately until they would meet at puberty. This way, the westermarck effect (a hypothetical psychological effect that suppress incest and childhood friends sexual involvement) won't influence them. So maybe the Targaryans done this (or unintentional) to make the incest marriage more possible.

[Bear Claw]

3 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Probably cause in this case, the siblings weren't raised together, like brought up together. As far as i know, the Egyptians did something to make the marriage of the sibling or cousins at least more tolerable between them.  They would raised the girls and boys separately until they would meet at puberty. This way, the westermarck effect (a hypothetical psychological effect of sexual imprinting that suppress incest and childhood friends involvement) won't influence them. So maybe the Targaryans did this (or unintentional) to make the incest marriage more possible.

Well, I know some people who support Arya/Jon say it is their close relationship as children that makes a future romance more likely. I don't know if it is true, but someone pointed out that some of the great Targ romances were between siblings who were always close. (I think the dragonknight and his sister???) I guess the psychology, just like the genetics in Westeros do not have to comply with the real world. However, it could make it more difficult for the audience to understand. 

[A spoon of knife and fork]

16 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Probably cause in this case, the siblings weren't raised together, like brought up together. As far as i know, the Egyptians did something to make the marriage of the sibling or cousins at least more tolerable between them.  They would raised the girls and boys separately until they would meet at puberty. This way, the westermarck effect (a hypothetical psychological effect that suppress incest and childhood friends sexual involvement) won't influence them. So maybe the Targaryans done this (or unintentional) to make the incest marriage more possible.

In fact there's another not quite proven psychological phenomenon which is the reverse of Westermarck - Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA).  It's surprisingly common for people who are close relatives (half sibs or sibs) separated at birth and later reunited as adults to find themselves attracted to each other - whether they know they are related or not.  So I guess it could be argued that Jon and Dany might have GSA for each other...

[Mandzipop]

6 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

Well, I know some people who support Arya/Jon say it is their close relationship as children that makes a future romance more likely. I don't know if it is true, but someone pointed out that some of the great Targ romances were between siblings who were always close. (I think the dragonknight and his sister???) I guess the psychology, just like the genetics in Westeros do not have to comply with the real world. However, it could make it more difficult for the audience to understand. 

I think if Jon does end up in a relationship with a woman, she will be a relative. I think that is a given as there are only 3 candidates (4 if you include Lyanna Mormont as a betrothal until she is of age). If Jon and Arya are reunited, I see that as being the final reunion as it would be the most emotional. So show wise, I think that is one that can be ruled out. If he gets the hots for Sansa, then it would be explained as genetic. In fact, even with Dany they may have to use that reasoning as he'll know he's a Targaryan when he meets her.

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, Mandzipop said:

Rory is about 27 years older than Sophie. I think the ages of the actors prevents the beauty and the beast aspect being obvious in the show to the general viewing audience who have never read the books.

 

Well...that was my point too. We are supposed to believe Dinklage is in his thirties....

Quote

I'm not entirely sure that there is time to set up SanSan now. It would be required to start from scratch, I've got a feeling that the Hound will head south not north in season 7. My reasoning is that I think he will go with Arya. She needs saving from herself. She is turning into a blood thirsty homicidal maniac. She is developing an unhealthy blood lust. I think the only person who can save her from herself is the Hound.

I think the decision to send Sansa to Winterfell was the death knell of SanSan in the show.

Some posters provided example of possible hints that the showrunners may be using for hinting SanSan. @Le Cygne posted some things about their connections, I don't know if it was in this thread but surely in another one for SanSan. I think it's not too late. They have 13 episodes. Jaime and Brienne's relationship was froxen since s4 and this season resurfaced in the form of some joking from Bronn's part and then some quotes about Oathkeeper; for instance.

I think Arya might go north, as well. And in her journey, even if the Hound goes South, they can find eachother.

I think that ShowArya is in a bad path but not as bad as it might seem. I think that in  the finales she hasbeen too bloody compared to her norma being in the other episodes during the last seasons. However, I might be wrong, and she can be in trouble. I agree that she should become a better version of herself, anyway, but her bloody portrayal can be seen in other characters as well. However, if they are older and men we are not supposed to care as much about them. But I agree that Sandor could "save" her a little.

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I think they possibly found that conveying the Hound as an almost heroic figure, yet he had tendancies leaning towards paedophilia. I don't think it can be accurately portrayed on screen whilst still keeping the Hound as a sympathetic character.

Why I question whether the Targaryan incest thing is nature or nurture. I think Jon is going to show some of his true Targaryan nature in season 7.  He does share the natural ability to inspire others with Dany. This does appear to be a trait that Rhaegar also possessed. Not entirely sure whether that is a trait that all non-mad Targaryans shared. Maester Aemon was well loved.

I am not aware about these tendencies......I haven't seen them.

Quote

People find the whole Littlefinger situation creepy and Aiden is exactly one year older than Rory (to the day, they both share the same birthday).

In my opinion LF is creepy not only for the age difference but also (and mainly) because he tries to seduce her whilst she doesn't want to. I agree that Rory doesn't seem to be in his thirties, but as I said before, Dinklage doesn't and he is supposed to be younger too. 

Clarke and Harington are also supposed to be younger (about 6 years) and I think they can play the part (I for one am about their age and can pass as younger like many young women), but we are also supposed to believe Tyrion and Sandor are younger in this universe. So then, the age gap is not as bigger as it it is in real life.

 

[Mandzipop]

9 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Well...that was my point too. We are supposed to believe Dinklage is in his thirties....

Some posters provided example of possible hints that the showrunners may be using for hinting SanSan. @Le Cygne posted some things about their connections, I don't know if it was in this thread but surely in another one for SanSan. I think it's not too late. They have 13 episodes. Jaime and Brienne's relationship was froxen since s4 and this season resurfaced in the form of some joking from Bronn's part and then some quotes about Oathkeeper; for instance.

I think Arya might go north, as well. And in her journey, even if the Hound goes South, they can find eachother.

I think that ShowArya is in a bad path but not as bad as it might seem. I think that in  the finales she hasbeen too bloody compared to her norma being in the other episodes during the last seasons. However, I might be wrong, and she can be in trouble. I agree that she should become a better version of herself, anyway, but her bloody portrayal can be seen in other characters as well. However, if they are older and men we are not supposed to care as much about them. But I agree that Sandor could "save" her a little.

I am not aware about these tendencies......I haven't seen them.

In my opinion LF is creepy not only for the age difference but also (and mainly) because he tries to seduce her whilst she doesn't want to. I agree that Rory doesn't seem to be in his thirties, but as I said before, Dinklage doesn't and he is supposed to be younger too. 

Clarke and Harington are also supposed to be younger (about 6 years) and I think they can play the part (I for one am about their age and can pass as younger like many young women), but we are also supposed to believe Tyrion and Sandor are younger in this universe. So then, the age gap is not as bigger as it it is in real life.

 

I've put up the barrier that a man in his 40's and a girl of 14/15 having any type of slightly inappropriate relationship is completely wrong and I know it isn't real or fantasy, but there are some real world boundaries that I can't cross and that is one of them. There is nothing in the world that can change my mind to make me change my view that something is sick, twisted and perverted to something romantic. I can be given a thousand hints of it being romantic, but it will not stop me thinking it is sick, twisted and wrong.  It makes me feel sick. Holding me at gunpoint wouldn't change my mind so romantic references won't.

Judging ages is hard because Dany ended the show in front of Jon in time. Dany's last scene could quite easily be 6 months after Cersei was crowned.

So, back to shipping. Joe Dempsie has been spotted in Belfast. Now, Gendry technically has a claim to the Iron Throne. It is certainly more valid than Cersei's claim. Dany is now of the frame of mind that you can't blame a child for the actions of their father. So Gendry could well end up on Dany's marriage list. I don't think she'd marry him, but that list is rather short right now.

[Meera of Tarth]

11 hours ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

In fact there's another not quite proven psychological phenomenon which is the reverse of Westermarck - Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA).  It's surprisingly common for people who are close relatives (half sibs or sibs) separated at birth and later reunited as adults to find themselves attracted to each other - whether they know they are related or not.  So I guess it could be argued that Jon and Dany might have GSA for each other...

That could be the case, although it is rare. I think that would fit more the Targaryens, as for they are commonly paired between themselves.

I don't much of the Targ history but I think that they not always chose eachother (or they are forced). I listened to that in a podcast and maybe I don't remember it correctly, so I apologise if it's not the case. But what I am referring is that maybe the cultural traits are important too.

As for Jon and SansaI think that the way they have been raised as half-siblings (even if not close) is pivotal, because they share the same father figure. SOmething simillar happens with Jon and Arya, although they have a deeper connection. I don't think he would agree to marry a sister because of that. 

[Meera of Tarth]

 

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I've put up the barrier that a man in his 40's and a girl of 14/15 having any type of slightly inappropriate relationship is completely wrong and I know it isn't real or fantasy, but there are some real world boundaries that I can't cross and that is one of them.

I have that barrier too. I would not like it. But you are mixing real life ages with show ages:

• a man in his 20's (27-28)  with a approx 13 year old girl-

OR

• a man in his fourties playing  a man in his thirties with a 14 year old girl-nearly 15.

Sandor hasn't forced her to do anything, except to tell her the truth of his burned face (he felt secure with her in the books), and both in the show and in the books they trust eachother and she knows he won't hurt her because he has saved her many times.  In the clip I posted there was nothing sick, and the scene in the books is symbolic (he is not forcing her or anything!!!!!! it's a scene of she discovering his inside).

Nothing sexual happened there because he didn't kiss her. And in the books, she pretends they kissed (that is her sexual response, not his).

The scene was for setting up the romance between them, the feeling beneath the surface. In the next books, they will explore their feelings, like The BatB story.

In the show if it happens, it will be the same, the setting up has started but now than Sansa is older (and adult both in the show and in real life) and it could happen without any kind of sickness.

Another thing to take into account is that in period romances age gaps were common, as it is in ASOIAF/GOT. But I think I mentioned that before.

 

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There is nothing in the world that can change my mind to make me change my view that something is sick, twisted and perverted to something romantic. I can be given a thousand hints of it being romantic, but it will not stop me thinking it is sick, twisted and wrong.  It makes me feel sick. Holding me at gunpoint wouldn't change my mind so romantic references won't.

I don't want to change your mind. Just stating facts. The romantic part is there but it's ok not liking it.

However, we have to take into consideration than in the show Sansa has grown. Now she is a woman. She has even been married twice. So now she can be paired romantically with anyone. THe important thing for me is who she decides to. And I don't think marrying LF or her brother is better or less "sick" IMO.

Having said all that, So it's not ok saying I am ok trying to convince you about  "sick or perverted  tendencies" because the scene has nothing to do with that-as I mentioned in the previous paragraph amongst other things, it was a starter for their future story. That's distorting my words quite a lot.

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Judging ages is hard because Dany ended the show in front of Jon in time. Dany's last scene could quite easily be 6 months after Cersei was crowned.

I agree judging ages is hard in this show, but especially with Tommen, Myrcella and Baby Sam. The other characters don't suffer strange processes. We can assume that since s3, 2-4 years have passed and Sansa is 16-18 (adult in GOT). Sansa was 14 (about to be 15 probably) when she married Tyrion. As for the Lannisters I don't have the quotes here now, but Tyrion is younger than the twins and he is still in his thirties because the twins were less than 40. 

It's not strange to suppose than being that the characters are approx the same age in the books (Tyrion and Sandor) and the actors as well, they are playing both of them, people in their thirties.

 

//ETA: Rory is not playing his own age:

http://scripts.tv-calling.com/script/hbo-game-thrones-1x01-pilot/

[Meera of Tarth]

 

43 minutes ago, Mandzipop said:

 

So, back to shipping. Joe Dempsie has been spotted in Belfast. Now, Gendry technically has a claim to the Iron Throne. It is certainly more valid than Cersei's claim. Dany is now of the frame of mind that you can't blame a child for the actions of their father. So Gendry could well end up on Dany's marriage list. I don't think she'd marry him, but that list is rather short right now.

 I agree that he might have a cliam in the iron throne in the show and it would be very interesting to see the outcome of that.

But it's unlikely Dany would marry the son of the man that killed her beloved brother IMO. If Gendry returns (and I hope so because he is one of my fav secondary characters) I hope they don't kill him like they did with Osha or Rickon.

[Future Null Infinity]

16 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

So while to some people it might seem the Hound is an assassin who "threats girls into singing or either he will kim them" that is not the case. Before that he tells her he will keep her safe, inviting her to be with him, and he would never hurt her. 

The whole thing with the dagger is purely symbolic of sexuality (and in the context after he puts her in the bed which is telling about the meaning). 

But while she is singing he leaves. He wants her to be safe, and thus he makes her sing the song, because he knows that is what makes her stay calm. He doesn't hurt her nor force her to do anything. And The kiss doesn't happen. They are close, only that. The tone is romantic.

Thank you very much for this detailed explanation, it was very helpful and apologies for any misunderstanding, I'm not a book reader, just some observations from the show :

• D&D and GRRM didn't include Sansa/Sandor relationship in the show, I think it was deemed too controversial or not as important as Jon/Ygritte or Jaime/Brienne
• if it will be Sansa/Sandor in the next seasons so it will be too much repetitions for the same thing (Sansa/Tyrion, Sansa/Ramsay and Sansa/Sandor) and it is not a very good story telling

[Meera of Tarth]

1 minute ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Thank you very much for this detailed explanation, it was very helpful and apologies for any misunderstanding, I'm not a book reader, just some observations from the show :

• D&D and GRRM didn't include Sansa/Sandor relationship in the show, I think it was deemed too controversial or not as important as Jon/Ygritte or Jaime/Brienne
•  

Don't worry

Well, I don't know if it will happen of course, but @Le Cygne posted some scenes that convinced me that there were some hints that I hadn't seen, (connections in the dialogue and the manners they use) so I think they might go there.

Quote

if it will be Sansa/Sandor in the next seasons so it will be too much repetitions for the same thing (Sansa/Tyrion, Sansa/Ramsay and Sansa/Sandor) and it is not a very good story telling and an overuse of the beauty and the beast trope 

Well, I think it will not be a repetition, because if it happens it will be Sansa that decides to be with him because she has fallen in love with him. They will show how she falls in love. It will be different, because she and Tyrion didn't want that marriage, and the Ramsay thing was an invention and completely gross.

The BatB trope is for SanSan and Jaime and Brienne. (The latter is so interestigng because IMO it is BatB in both sides, so both are Beauty and The Beast, its very interesting to read about how they are both the Beauty and The Beast in the books depending on the stage of the relationship, I love them; and I hope the relationship flowers in the show because I ship them since I watched it on TV in S3).

 I don't see that in Sansa and Tyrion. They are not in love. If she had fallen in love with him it might have been, but it was not the case, and of course...the Beast (Tyrion) didn't love her at all (something the Beast does). It was a story of two people who were forced to marry. And Tyrion was gentle and didn't force her but that doesn't mean there is love. He loved Shae.

As for Ramsay-Sansa...well, as I said, this is not love so less BatB, of course!

[Le Cygne]

@Meera of Tarth great answers! Yeah, the showrunners said Sandor is in his 30's, and Sansa is probably at least 16, and that's quite common in these sorts of romances. Beauty and the Beast is a story of sexual awakening, and that's Sansa and the Hound. Lots of that in the books, and hints on the show, too. And of course, this scene, which parallels La Belle et la Bete. And more show stuff here...

That's cool, Arya and Gendry! GRRM did say there would be more story for those two.

[Karmarni]

28 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

@Meera of Tarth great answers! Yeah, the showrunners said Sandor is in his 30's, and Sansa is probably at least 16, and that's quite common in these sorts of romances. Beauty and the Beast is a story of sexual awakening, and that's Sansa and the Hound. Lots of that in the books, and hints on the show, too. And of course, this scene, which parallels La Belle et la Bete. And more show stuff here...

That's cool, Arya and Gendry! GRRM did say there would be more story for those two.

I've been wondering where Gendry is! He needs to come back. He was in the show for a reason, and I think that he still has a role to fulfill.

No one's going to convince me that the show is not going to do SanSan.  I am a believer that the tone, and that's the most important thing to me, the tone, (thanks for bringing that up and making that clear @Meera of Tarth) and it's in the show and it's definitely in the books, is setting up a future meeting between Sandor and Sansa.  Not the least of which are two points to be extrapolated from the books: 

1. Sansa makes up a kiss between her and the Hound. 

2. Sansa is not with Jon, nor do I believe she will ever be with him. Romantically or otherwise. 

That "kiss" needs to be resolved. On the show it is  translated to  the "you won't hurt me" part.