Possible marriage

[GhostNymeria]

51 minutes ago, Darksky said:

@Woman of War agreed. Think Sandor was brought back with the sole purpose of bringing Arya back from the precipice of darkness and insanity. Their platonic relationship is more developed and organic than whatever Sansa and Sandor have been and may ever be. Arya and Sandor's interactions were one of the high points of GOT. I don't see him taking part in the endgame conflict, fighting the undead army. What is he going to do? Fall into servitude to King Jon? He had already served under two Kings and he abandoned one of them. What other role could there be for him? If he does reach the North, he is likely to go straight to The Wall with the Brotherhood. 

I'm thinking this too. I think Lady Stoneheart's purpose in the books is to be Arya's turning point. And since LS got scrapped from the show, it would make sense that they give that purpose to Sandor. But I do think there is a big possibility for Sandor/Sansa in the books, but probably not in the show.

[Le Cygne]

So let's look at the other ships. For Sansa, they ruled out Tyrion, they tossed out the forced marriage. For Sansa, they ruled out Jon, they said they never even considered it. For Arya, GRRM ruled out Jon, he said he scrapped the outline. None of those will happen.

Sansa and Sandor had lots of setup on the show. Arya and Gendry, too. Those are book stories with romantic references. GRRM said there's something there with Sansa and Sandor on the show, too, and said Arya and Gendry will have more story in the books.

Cogman said they always planned to bring Sandor back, and the Sansa and the Hound relationship is a big part of the show. The showrunners said about Sansa and Sandor, the developing relationship between these two, much more to come.

Now, seems like if Sansa and Sandor were a big part of the show, and much more is how they described their relationship, then it's significant. So maybe the 20 or so scenes together, based on Beauty and the Beast, and all the hints after, were actually for a reason.

Now let's see, how does Sandor feel about Sansa on the show? They said he is attracted to her. They also said it's a good thing Rory is taller than Sophie during this scene where they added the line where he pledges to protect her.

And they added this scene, too. He gave her his cloak. He called her his pet name for her four times. They also added the happy memory line. Rory said about the love, yeah there might be after filming that scene. And much more.

Seems like Sandor has got quite the thing for Sansa. He sure cares a lot about her. Always looked out for her. And he said ask her who came back for her, and now is told it's never too late to come back and sent north.

[Moirainee]

1 hour ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Sorry, can you give a scene from the show that support your claim and show Sansa telling someone that she betrayed Jon?

she didn't betrayed him because she didn't say I betrayed  jon.Really?Jon's alive because of the luck.He could have died due to an arrow.I think the writers have ruined her character.She didn't even care Rickon.he was more upset than she is.he is her little brother.

Read interviews.They all say she is jealous of him.Hundreds of people died because of her stupidity.He asked him what should I do different and she didn't say anything.

[Bear Claw]

20 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

So let's look at the other ships. For Sansa, they ruled out Tyrion, they tossed out the forced marriage. For Sansa, they ruled out Jon, they said they never even considered it. For Arya, GRRM ruled out Jon, he said he scrapped the outline. None of those will happen.

 

I   don't know.  Regarding Sansa and Jon they said something like they never considered it but thanks. If they had just said we never considered it, I would believe them. However, they added "but thanks"??? They were asked about Dany and Missandei and they definitively said it would never happen. I don't think their Jon/Sansa comment was very convincing. (I've always been told that when people use "but" in a sentence you can disregard everything that came before it. )

[Future Null Infinity]

1 hour ago, Darksky said:

How about all those scenes in which Sansa fails to tell Jon about the incoming reinforcements? It was crucial intel that would have helped Jon with his battle strategy. Hundreds of deaths could have been avoided if Sansa had just said the words. According to the writers and the actress she stayed mum because of inability to deal with her trust issues and her need for validation. That was more important to her than the lives of those fighting for her. What is it if not sabotage? 

So it's not a betrayal, you wrote what you want to believe and what you want to think, you think it's a betrayal you can call it a betrayal, you are free but it's not what in the unvierse of the show and not what 99.99 of the viewers saw

1 hour ago, Darksky said:

she also betrayed Arya and Ned.

yes, yes, the same phrase since 1996

Anyway, the story now is written, the S7 scripts are ready and the ink is dry, sorry for going of topic

/Rant

[Le Cygne]

They ruled out Jon and Sansa, they never even considered it...

[Bear Claw]

I wasn't at Comic Con (I would love to go),so I don't know who they were talking to, (I thought it was the one who asked the question). All I can do is look at this past season. They seem to be forming a closer bond (even show runners say she loves her brother), there are some strange camera shots, and it sounds like they are giving her a version of the Mother of Dragons theme (very similar sounding anyway). I guess because she will be a  mother dragons???? In totality, it looks like Jon/Sansa at this point to me. 

[Tijgy]

28 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

I   don't know.  Regarding Sansa and Jon they said something like they never considered it but thanks. If they had just said we never considered it, I would believe them. However, they added "but thanks"??? They were asked about Dany and Missandei and they definitively said it would never happen. I don't think their Jon/Sansa comment was very convincing. (I've always been told that when people use "but" in a sentence you can disregard everything that came before it. )

The fact is they said they never considered is actually a pretty strong argument. This means they wrote 60 episodes without one moment thinking about the fact Jon and Sansa could be a couple. Every moment they were together were only written with a brother-sister relationship in their mind. And now they would suddenly change that relationship (after writing already a huge part of season 7?)? If they would do that, it would actually be really bad writing and completely fan service. 

Instead you have the relationship between Sansa and Sandor. Something that started in season 1. Their (potential) romance was already written from the second episode? (The Trident was episode 2, right?). It shows references to the BatB, which is a romance. He is the guy who protected her before anyone else and who had nothing to gain from her (unlike Tyrion). And later he protected her sister. This is a story which they built up from season 1 and I believe the only love story which was built up from the beginning to the ending. 

[Meera of Tarth]

10 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

I think the show is hinting at Sansa and Jon. I noticed an overlap of the Mother of Dragons theme when Sansa begs Theon for help. Then the themes they play when she finds out  Rickon and Bran are alive (from Theon) and the scene with Jon and Sansa making peace on the battlements sounds like some of the Mother of Dragons theme (the first part with the violins). It is very similar anyway. 

They do it quite a lot with themes: mixing, they did similar things mixing Lord of Light and the theme of Catelyn/Brienne, and some people thought it was a hint to LSH and then: nothing happened. 

And that was a good one, very telling: magic of resurrection+Catelyn+Brienne=LSH. No other character included.

Apart from that, if anything, your example would be foresahowing of Dany with Sansa and Jon (as allies maybe).

[Meera of Tarth]

5 hours ago, Woman of War said:

But many people, like me, do not doubt that Sansa and Sandor might meet again and that there might be some interaction of plot importance. Of course they could meet before all is said and done, why not.  But I doubt the story will go the way you hope. Actually we all may be wrong with our different little hopes  

 I do not believe that a love story in the traditional happy ending manner will be set up. Sansa and Sandor might even turn out to be on different sides of loyalty or one may die because of the other. Sansa may try to exploit Sandor's emotions and Sandor may refuse, Sandor may be torn between Arya and Sansa etc. If something like SanSan happens, if these two characters meet again  in a storyline of their own I expect tragedy, not a final "happy ending" with both of them disappearing into blissful story oblivion. 

But I think Sandor has returned to be a supporting character to Arya's, not Sansa's story, an interaction that has fascinated me, and I guess many other readers and viewers, much more than his less complex relationship with Sansa.



 

It's possible that nothing romantic happens, who knows? but Sansa will definitely not exploit Sandor in anyway nor Sandor will be torn between the two sisters because she has no romantic story with Arya at all neither in the show nor in the books.

[Meera of Tarth]

4 hours ago, Darksky said:

@Woman of War agreed. Think Sandor was brought back with the sole purpose of bringing Arya back from the precipice of darkness and insanity. Their platonic relationship is more developed and organic than whatever Sansa and Sandor have been and may ever be. Arya and Sandor's interactions were one of the high points of GOT. I don't see him taking part in the endgame conflict, fighting the undead army. What is he going to do? Fall into servitude to King Jon? He had already served under two Kings and he abandoned one of them. What other role could there be for him? If he does reach the North, he is likely to go straight to The Wall with the Brotherhood. 

Which is your definiton of platonic?

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

So it's not a betrayal, you wrote what you want to believe and what you want to think, you think it's a betrayal you can call it a betrayal, you are free but it's not what in the unvierse of the show and not what 99.99 of the viewers saw

yes, yes, the same phrase since 1996

Anyway, the story now is written, the S7 scripts are ready and the ink is dry, sorry for going of topic

/Rant

I think she won't betray Jon but she might be jealous of his status (because she is the rightful heir if Bran is supposed to be dead--> that's another issue that had to be resolved because they knew he was alive and never mentioned him again since that)  and she still has some issues with LF, but she has to understand she doesn't owe him anything.

[Mandzipop]

Sophie accidentally gave away a season 7 plot point that Sansa discovers Jon's identity. I don't think that is really a surprise to be honest. She said that Sansa will no longer view Jon as her brother, she would view him as a Targaryan.

To me that can be taken 2 ways. They've removed the ick factor and Jon becomes a marriageable prospect. Although I'd highly doubt it would be romantic. Jon is now the most eligible bachelor in Westeros. Or they can become enemies. I agree with @Le Cygne that Sansa might be happy for her mother that Ned didn't cheat (I assume that's what was meant). I think Sansa's reaction to Jon will depend upon who delivers the news. It has been set up that it is Bran, however it seems unvelieveable to me that Littlefinger and Varys don't know. Even show Stannis is not convinced by Ned's version of Jon's origins. Show Stannis is not sneaky like LF and Varys. So I think there is a good chance it might come from Littlefinger. If it does then her reaction won't be as positive. If it comes from Bran then it is likely to be a positive reaction as I don't think Bran will change his feelings towards Jon, so for Sansa to change her feelings in a negative manner would look silly.

It is clear that show Sansa is set up to be the downfall of LF. Even to show only viewers. I do put myself in that category although I have read the books as I've only read them once and it is a long time since I read them (season 3) and for medical reasons my memory of them is hazy and I'm not capable of re-reading them yet.

I feel that show Hound is tied in with Arya's story. I can see them both going to Kings Landing to take out Cersei and the Mountain. She might bump into Mel and they go on a Gendry hunt (Joe Dempsie has been seen in Belfast in the last few days). Also the Icelandic filming information suggests that it is unlikely that any of the main cast will be heading north in season 7. Apparantly there are 6 main cast members filming in the north and there are currently 6 main characters in the north (discounting Meera and including Tormund).

It is the job of the cast and Dan & Dave to troll the fans simply because they can't tell us what will and won't happen.  Occasionally they slip up and they sometimes do put real info in there. I tend to take whatever they say with a pinch of salt unless it is an accidental slip (like I believe Sophie's was).

[Future Null Infinity]

4 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I think she won't betray Jon but she might be jealous of his status (because she is the rightful heir if Bran is supposed to be dead--> that's another issue that had to be resolved because they knew he was alive and never mentioned him again since that)  and she still has some issues with LF, but she has to understand she doesn't owe him anything.

She knows that she doesn't owe LF when she said to Jon that no one can trust Baelish.

Maybe we will see LF/Brandon/Catelyn again but this time LF/Sandor/Sansa 

[Meera of Tarth]

25 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

She knows that she doesn't owe LF when she said to Jon that no one can trust Baelish.

Maybe we will see LF/Brandon/Catelyn again but this time LF/Sandor/Sansa 

of course, I was referring that LF is very manipulative and might use his jealousy for him, but I don't think she will betray Jon.

29 minutes ago, Mandzipop said:

Sophie accidentally gave away a season 7 plot point that Sansa discovers Jon's identity. I don't think that is really a surprise to be honest. She said that Sansa will no longer view Jon as her brother, she would view him as a Targaryan.

To me that can be taken 2 ways. They've removed the ick factor and Jon becomes a marriageable prospect. Although I'd highly doubt it would be romantic. Jon is now the most eligible bachelor in Westeros. Or they can become enemies. I agree with @Le Cygne that Sansa might be happy for her mother that Ned didn't cheat (I assume that's what was meant). I think Sansa's reaction to Jon will depend upon who delivers the news. It has been set up that it is Bran, however it seems unvelieveable to me that Littlefinger and Varys don't know. Even show Stannis is not convinced by Ned's version of Jon's origins. Show Stannis is not sneaky like LF and Varys. So I think there is a good chance it might come from Littlefinger. If it does then her reaction won't be as positive. If it comes from Bran then it is likely to be a positive reaction as I don't think Bran will change his feelings towards Jon, so for Sansa to change her feelings in a negative manner would look silly.

 

But a marriage prospect, even not romantic, as you point out, would only work to fix the mess of King in The North+Lady of Winterfell. Bran might come there and resolve that. Or, it can also happen that Jon might postpone this bureaucratic issue or, either, rule for the 7 KingDoms. 

My point is that, even so, it would be very traumatic for them (two siblings, they have been raised as so) marrying eachother, considering they are not Targaryens (both have not been raised in that culture). And considering Jon is in power, I can't understand why would he want to do that to himself and his sister, who has already suffered a lot. It's very implausible IMHO.

Becoming enemies is odd for me too. I think they might play with the controversy of LF manipulating Sansa a little, if anything. But Sansa would never betray Jon. And, as you mention, realising Jon it's their cousin won't make them feel he is more distant.

[GhostNymeria]

2 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

They were asked about Dany and Missandei and they definitively said it would never happen.

Don't know if you know it already, but Dany/Missandei have already kind of happend in the books. There are several instances where Missandei, along with Dany's other handmaidens, pleasures Dany when she's lonely

[Newstar]

16 hours ago, Darksky said:

Waiting for SanSan is like waiting for Lady Stoneheart. Not gonna happen. There is gonna be a lot of saltiness to go around next year, but  there is still going to be A Dream of Book 6 to look forward to.

I find it funny how some people consider Petyr/Aiden x Sansa/Sophie creepy but not Sandor/Rory x Sansa/Sophie. Both make my stomach churn. No worries, if Sansa turns into a traitor (well more than she's now), she's not long for the world. I don't see a place for her in the endgame. I have a hunch they will kill one more Stark before they're done. 

Agreed about SanSan.

I also agree that all indications point to Jon vs. Sansa in Season 7: that quote from D&D about how Jon had better hope that the contest between selfish individuals and unselfish individuals is a conflict between groups was telling. All of Jon's enemies have either died or have been converted to Jon's side. If Sansa goes up against Jon in Season 7, and all indications are that she will, she's going to lose. I don't see a role for Sansa in the endgame, either, unless she marries Jon. The show seems to be bringing Sansa back to her role as the designated "traitor" Stark as envisioned by GRRM in the 1993 outline, so that she'll throw a wrench into Jon's plan to unify the North and face the WW threat (and, I imagine, tie up the Northern storyline to give Team Dany time to go north). This is probably where she winds up in the books as well, once her Vale arc ends. Only now that Sansa has all of Petyr's training and ambition (in the show at least), she'll be able to do a lot of damage.

As for whether Sansa would thaw towards Jon if she learned that he was not Ned's son, would she? Or would she be even angrier that someone was acclaimed KITN on the basis of having Ned's blood in his veins when he in fact did not?

6 hours ago, Darksky said:

@Woman of War agreed. Think Sandor was brought back with the sole purpose of bringing Arya back from the precipice of darkness and insanity.

Looks like it.

[Meera of Tarth]

3 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Agreed about SanSan.I also agree that all indications point to Jon vs. Sansa in Season 7: that quote from D&D about how Jon had better hope that the contest between selfish individuals and unselfish individuals is a conflict between groups was telling. All of Jon's enemies have either died or have been converted to Jon's side. If Sansa goes up against Jon in Season 7, she's going to lose.

So Jon doesn't have more enemies in the story? It's like any of  all the other characters that he will likely meet (or LF) won't be Jon's  enemies and will be happy to join his side except for his sister. Jon and Sansa have had beautiful sibling moments this season, I agree there's jeaulousy for Jon too but betraying him and be his enemy?

Quote

I don't see a role for Sansa in the endgame, either, unless she marries Jon.

Looks like it.

The showrunner's keep talking about women empowerment. I highly doubt that marrying Jon is what they are referring to. Women can also be other things apart from the spouse of her sibling.

And I can't understand why you have two opposite views on Sansa at the same time:

-marrying Jon

-Jon's enemy

[Newstar]

3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Jon and Sansa have had beautiful sibling moments this season, I agree there's jeaulousy for Jon too but betraying him and be his enemy?

The problem with those "beautiful sibling moments"--the gift of the cloak, the hug, the forehead kiss--is that you have to look at them in context. Sansa and Jon have spent most of Season 6 at odds, after the obligatory hug:

1. Sansa reminds us that Jon and Sansa were never close as children.

2. Sansa urges Jon to take back Winterfell, and he doesn't want to at first.

3. Sansa lies to Jon about going to meet LF and his offer of assistance.

4. Sansa lies to Jon about the source of her information as to the Blackfish.

5. Brienne points out that Sansa doesn't trust Jon. (Showrunners confirm that LF still has a hold on Sansa, that she's not a "clean, pure Stark," and that she doesn't trust Jon.)

6. Sansa bristles at Jon's reliance on Davos.

7. Sansa disagrees with Jon's decision to go forward with the men they have rather than waiting.

8. Sansa goes behind Jon's back to beg LF for assistance.

9. Sansa gets angry with Jon when he doesn't ask for her advice on how to deal with Ramsay, and they have a tense conversation when Sansa can't be more specific than "Don't do what he wants you to do." She also blows off his claim that he'll protect her.

10. Jon tells Sansa "We can't fight a war among ourselves," something he wouldn't say if he were fully confident in Sansa's trust (or if he fully trusted Sansa).

11. Jon looks uncomfortable when Sansa claims "only a fool would trust Littlefinger."

12. Sansa offers Jon a wan smile when he looks for her approval in the KITN scene, but her smile fades when he looks away (according to the official HBO recap) and she exchanges a long look with LF that Jon doesn't see.

They've spent most of the season arguing and at cross purposes, and Jon's acclamation as KITN and Sansa's lack of recognition are only going to pour gasoline on that conflict. If fans think that things are going to improve between Jon and Sansa in Season 7, they're kidding themselves.

As for Jon and Sansa marrying, I don't see it, but it would be one way for Sansa to have a role in the endgame. As it is now, from a narrative perspective she looks like she's staying around to make things difficult for Jon and stall for time in the Northern storyline until the Wall falls and Dany heads north.

[Future Null Infinity]

Here an idea :

Why Sansa must stay in Winterfell and why Arya must go there? will they watch Jon fighting the WW for the rest of their stories?

This is not story telling, Winterfell is the death of Sansa's and Arya's stories

with or without Sandor, those two are going to King's Landing, making the full circle, the story started in KL and will end in KL