Possible marriage

[Darksky]

LOL people actually believe whatever comes out of D and D, Sophie and other actors' mouths? How naive, have you not learned anything from the past promo campaigns? And since when are D and D so respected  that people eat up anything the say? I thought book fans considered them to be hacks.

[Darksky]

3 hours ago, Mandzipop said:

Sophie accidentally gave away a season 7 plot point that Sansa discovers Jon's identity. I don't think that is really a surprise to be honest. She said that Sansa will no longer view Jon as her brother, she would view him as a Targaryan.

To me that can be taken 2 ways. They've removed the ick factor and Jon becomes a marriageable prospect. Although I'd highly doubt it would be romantic. Jon is now the most eligible bachelor in Westeros. Or they can become enemies. I agree with @Le Cygne that Sansa might be happy for her mother that Ned didn't cheat (I assume that's what was meant). I think Sansa's reaction to Jon will depend upon who delivers the news. It has been set up that it is Bran, however it seems unvelieveable to me that Littlefinger and Varys don't know. Even show Stannis is not convinced by Ned's version of Jon's origins. Show Stannis is not sneaky like LF and Varys. So I think there is a good chance it might come from Littlefinger. If it does then her reaction won't be as positive. If it comes from Bran then it is likely to be a positive reaction as I don't think Bran will change his feelings towards Jon, so for Sansa to change her feelings in a negative manner would look silly.

Varys and Littlefinger don't know. They don't even so much as question Ned's story. it's a huge plothole set up by Martin, because plot demanded those two highly knowlegeable guys be ignorant of certain things that aren't hard to figure out even if one's not privy to what the readers are.

Jon being revealed as a Targaryen would not suddenly turn him into an enemy of House Stark/North, even to Sansa, regardless of how selfish, power-hungry and foolish she is. He's still half Stark, just that he's a son of a different Stark. He still spent his childhood in Winterfell, having been raised by Ned who viewed him as a son. And then there's everything he has done for the North and his family.

[Newstar]

1 hour ago, Darksky said:

LOL people actually believe whatever comes out of D and D, Sophie and other actors' mouths? How naive, have you not learned anything from the past promo campaigns? And since when are D and D so respected  that people eat up anything the say? I thought book fans considered them to be hacks.

D&D have strongly hinted at future plot points before. They said before Season 5 that Tyrion would be heading east, teaming up with new people, etc. etc., and so he did. They also gave an interview recently hinting at characters' arcs for the upcoming season in a very broad way, which they've done before. Sophie and co. have also hinted at plot points for future seasons before; Sophie gave a few early interviews before Season 5 that allowed fans to sniff out the Bolton marriage storyline. Sophie also lets other things slip during interviews (such as the fact that she was going to survive Season 6). There are many other examples of actors hinting at their plots for the upcoming seasons. No reason to discount everything said by the cast and showrunners about the upcoming season just because everyone had to lie about Jon's resurrection.

D&D are the ultimate authority on what will happen in the show, so I'm guessing book fans, no matter how they feel about D&D's abilities (or lack thereof), will look to them for info on that subject. It's pretty straightforward.

Le Cygne:

Quote

Cogman said (...) the Sansa and the Hound relationship is a big part of the show. The showrunners said about Sansa and Sandor, the developing relationship between these two, much more to come.

LOL, those three quotes were all from 2011 (Season 1):

1. Cogman tweeted in 2011 that "the Hound/Sansa relationship is still [my bold] a big part of the show" when 1x04 first aired, in response to a Twitter user (Horst_Slammer) complaining about the Hound not telling Sansa the story of his burns. Big difference. He was reassuring the Twitter user that the writers hadn't forgotten about Hound/Sansa interaction back when 1x04 aired, not discussing the future of the relationship beyond Season 2.

2. The exchange between Benioff and Weiss about "the developing relationship" between Sandor and Sansa and "much more" to come also happened around Season 1. "Much more" did come...in Season 2, which is what they were referencing.

Finally, in 2011 Cogman and D&D wouldn't have known whether or not Sandor and Sansa would wind up together, since they didn't get the big endgame rundown until 2013 (two years later). Until 2013, they didn't have any more information about post-ADWD plotlines than the book reading audience. Their comments in 2011 as to the importance of the relationship are completely meaningless in relation to the endgame and whether SanSan will get together in future seasons.

Ship and let ship and all that, but posting those quotes without context is very misleading. And if you have to go all the way back to 2011 quotes taken out of context to try to argue that your ship is a done deal in the show...that says it all, doesn't it?

[Darksky]

ha yeah it's best not to bring up outdated comments about things happening in earlier seasons. As far as I remember they haven't addressed SanSan post season 2. Adding to that the way they have handled both of their arcs, it's near certain the pairing is off the table at this point.

[Meera of Tarth]

5 hours ago, Newstar said:

The problem with those "beautiful sibling moments"--the gift of the cloak, the hug, the forehead kiss--is that you have to look at them in context. Sansa and Jon have spent most of Season 6 at odds, after the obligatory hug:

1. Sansa reminds us that Jon and Sansa were never close as children.

And then they smile about that

http://www.fandomfollowing.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/sansa.png

Quote

5. Brienne points out that Sansa doesn't trust Jon. (Showrunners confirm that LF still has a hold on Sansa, that she's not a "clean, pure Stark," and that she doesn't trust Jon.)

Yes, but that is at the beginning....there is some mistrust but not enmity.

Quote

6. Sansa bristles at Jon's reliance on Davos.

She says that because she doesn't know him and prefers to have less allies (that is what she has learnt abroud).

Quote

2. Sansa urges Jon to take back Winterfell, and he doesn't want to at first.

7. Sansa disagrees with Jon's decision to go forward with the men they have rather than waiting.

9. Sansa gets angry with Jon when he doesn't ask for her advice on how to deal with Ramsay, and they have a tense conversation when Sansa can't be more specific than "Don't do what he wants you to do." She also blows off his claim that he'll protect her.

or maybe they are showing that she is empowered, that she has learnt some things and wants to apply them...

Quote

Quote

10. Jon tells Sansa "We can't fight a war among ourselves," something he wouldn't say if he were fully confident in Sansa's trust (or if he fully trusted Sansa).

 

And Jon says that because there is tension because of 2,7,9. 

Quote

11. Jon looks uncomfortable when Sansa claims "only a fool would trust Littlefinger."

Jon aks her whether she trusts him? ANd Sansa says that because she doesn't believe herself to be a fool =I'm on your side.

I'm not going to analyse Jon's gestures as indicative of treason.

The general tone of the conversation is about apologising........Why don't you quote Sansa's:

"I should have told you about the Knights of the Vale....I'm sorry...".

Without that it is misleading.

Quote

3. Sansa lies to Jon about going to meet LF and his offer of assistance.

4. Sansa lies to Jon about the source of her information as to the Blackfish.

8. Sansa goes behind Jon's back to beg LF for assistance.

12. Sansa offers Jon a wan smile when he looks for her approval in the KITN scene, but her smile fades when he looks away (according to the official HBO recap) and she exchanges a long look with LF that Jon doesn't see.

They've spent most of the season arguing and at cross purposes, and Jon's acclamation as KITN and Sansa's lack of recognition are only going to pour gasoline on that conflict. If fans think that things are going to improve between Jon and Sansa in Season 7, they're kidding themselves.

 

Ok, this is LF territory. I agree there is some mistrust and I think it will play out, but betraying her own brother maybe it's too much. She might be tempted to do something at most by LF's manipulations, but in her heart she doesn't want to hurt Jon.

Quote

As for Jon and Sansa marrying, I don't see it, but it would be one way for Sansa to have a role in the endgame. As it is now, from a narrative perspective she looks like she's staying around to make things difficult for Jon and stall for time in the Northern storyline until the Wall falls and Dany heads north.

but how would they marry if they are "enemies" and siblings?mmmm

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, Darksky said:

LOL people actually believe whatever comes out of D and D, Sophie and other actors' mouths? How naive, have you not learned anything from the past promo campaigns? And since when are D and D so respected  that people eat up anything the say? I thought book fans considered them to be hacks.

which comments are you referring to?

[Lord Friendzone]

9 hours ago, Mandzipop said:

Sophie accidentally gave away a season 7 plot point that Sansa discovers Jon's identity. I don't think that is really a surprise to be honest. She said that Sansa will no longer view Jon as her brother, she would view him as a Targaryan.

To me that can be taken 2 ways. They've removed the ick factor and Jon becomes a marriageable prospect. Although I'd highly doubt it would be romantic. Jon is now the most eligible bachelor in Westeros. Or they can become enemies. I agree with @Le Cygne that Sansa might be happy for her mother that Ned didn't cheat (I assume that's what was meant). I think Sansa's reaction to Jon will depend upon who delivers the news. It has been set up that it is Bran, however it seems unvelieveable to me that Littlefinger and Varys don't know. Even show Stannis is not convinced by Ned's version of Jon's origins. Show Stannis is not sneaky like LF and Varys. So I think there is a good chance it might come from Littlefinger. If it does then her reaction won't be as positive. If it comes from Bran then it is likely to be a positive reaction as I don't think Bran will change his feelings towards Jon, so for Sansa to change her feelings in a negative manner would look silly.

It is clear that show Sansa is set up to be the downfall of LF. Even to show only viewers. I do put myself in that category although I have read the books as I've only read them once and it is a long time since I read them (season 3) and for medical reasons my memory of them is hazy and I'm not capable of re-reading them yet.

I feel that show Hound is tied in with Arya's story. I can see them both going to Kings Landing to take out Cersei and the Mountain. She might bump into Mel and they go on a Gendry hunt (Joe Dempsie has been seen in Belfast in the last few days). Also the Icelandic filming information suggests that it is unlikely that any of the main cast will be heading north in season 7. Apparantly there are 6 main cast members filming in the north and there are currently 6 main characters in the north (discounting Meera and including Tormund).

It is the job of the cast and Dan & Dave to troll the fans simply because they can't tell us what will and won't happen.  Occasionally they slip up and they sometimes do put real info in there. I tend to take whatever they say with a pinch of salt unless it is an accidental slip (like I believe Sophie's was).

She didn't really gave aways spoilers. More like she never view him as a Stark before. He was a bastard, outsider to her as her mother. She talked about how she has similiar views on Jon as her mother. That's why they never been close or jealousy, she doesn't trust him fully. Sansa might find out but this interview doesn't indicate it.

[Bear Claw]

10 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

They do it quite a lot with themes: mixing, they did similar things mixing Lord of Light and the theme of Catelyn/Brienne, and some people thought it was a hint to LSH and then: nothing happened. 

And that was a good one, very telling: magic of resurrection+Catelyn+Brienne=LSH. No other character included.

Apart from that, if anything, your example would be foresahowing of Dany with Sansa and Jon (as allies maybe).

Thanks. Actually, this firms up my belief that Jon/Sansa will happen. I feel that the composer must know where the story is headed. LSH didn't happen in the show, but it does happen in the books. So this theme must be on purpose. Jon/Sansa must be happening in the show or in the books. He mixed it for a reason. 

[Meera of Tarth]

3 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

Thanks. Actually, this firms up my belief that Jon/Sansa will happen. I feel that the composer must know where the story is headed. LSH didn't happen in the show, but it does happen in the books. So this theme must be on purpose. Jon/Sansa must be happening in the show or in the books. He mixed it for a reason. 

What I am referring is that they mixed two themes to hint at LSH but it didn't happen.....we thought there was a reason...but no!

the most logical thing is that they mixed these two other themes because they liked it and it won't happen.

Well...unless LSH appears in S7, and I don't think so

[Bear Claw]

14 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

What I am referring is that they mixed two themes to hint at LSH but it didn't happen.....we thought there was a reason...but no!

the most logical thing is that they mixed these two other themes because they liked it and it won't happen.

Well...unless LSH appears in S7, and I don't think so

I know it  (LSH) doesn't exist in the show, but it does in the book, so there is a reason/basis for its creation. There must be a basis/reason for the creation of this new theme. I understand you feel it is pointing to an alliance. However, I  think it is indicating Jon/Sansa marriage/romance/children something like that. At the start of this season, I thought she would pair up with an Umber. And if I could match make him, I would pick Meera. However, I really think the show is saying Jon/Sansa. I could be wrong, but I think I am convinced at this point. 

[Commander Jon Snow]

I am about 80% sure that the season ends with Jon marrying Daenerys. Anyone other romantic partner is off the table. Sansa isn't going to marry him. Hell, it's a serious possibility that she will be against him. Jon and Arya getting married is an even more laughable idea. They basically telegraphed the Jon x Dany marriage in the season 6 finale.

And honestly, it will probably happen in the books as well. 

[Meera of Tarth]

Just now, Bear Claw said:

I know it doesn't exist in the show, but it does in the book, so there is a reason/basis for its creation. There must be a basis/reason for the creation of this new theme. I understand you feel it is pointing to an alliance. However, I  think it is indicating Jon/Sansa marriage/romance/children something like that. At the start of this season, I thought she would pair up with an Umber. And if I could match make him. I would pick Meera. However, I really think the show is saying Jon/Sansa. I could be wrong, but I think I am convinced at this point. 

Sorry, I'm a bit confused now. You are saying that there is basis in the books for Jon and Sansa or Jon and Dany (for the Mothe rof Dragon's theme)?

[Bear Claw]

1 minute ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Sorry, I'm a bit confused now. You are saying that there is basis in the books for Jon and Sansa or Jon and Dany (for the Mothe rof Dragon's theme)?

No, I am saying the Lord of Light mix with Cat/Brienne was foreshadowing LSH. They didn't follow through in the show, but LSH is brought back due to the Lord of Light in the books. Therefore the creation of this  LSH theme makes sense even though it doesn't happen in the show.  This new theme indicates to me that Jon/Sansa will happen either in the books or show.

[Meera of Tarth]

4 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

No, I am saying the Lord of Light mix with Cat/Brienne was foreshadowing LSH. They didn't follow through in the show, but LSH is brought back due to the Lord of Light in the books. Therefore the creation of this  LSH theme makes sense even though it doesn't happen in the show.  This new theme indicates to me that Jon/Sansa will happen either in the books or show.

ok, thanks!

however, even if many people think it makes sense....(for me was a big hint) do you think they make a theme only as a nod to the readers (in case JonSa and LSh are only in the books)? I don't want to disappoint you, but I had a lot of hype for LSH and found lots of hints in the show aand she never appeared. It was frustrating. They could do the same now. The composer might be doing that, but at the end, maybe it's because he likes it (or would like it to happen) or thinks it sounds good. Or maybe for a future reunion. LSH's mixed theme is still a big question of "why?" for me and I don't have the answer.

the other question I have is that why do you consider that The Mother of Dragon's theme is related to Sansa?

[Bear Claw]

17 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

ok, thanks!

however, even if many people think it makes sense....(for me was a big hint) do you think they make a theme only as a nod to the readers (in case JonSa and LSh are only in the books)? I don't want to disappoint you, but I had a lot of hype for LSH and found lots of hints in the show aand she never appeared. It was frustrating. They could do the same now. The composer might be doing that, but at the end, maybe it's because he likes it (or would like it to happen) or thinks it sounds good. Or maybe for a future reunion. LSH's mixed theme is still a big question of "why?" for me and I don't have the answer.

the other question I have is that why do you consider that The Mother of Dragon's theme is related to Sansa?

If there is one thing I know, it is that this show will disappointment me. I am not emotionally invested in Jon/Sansa, but I don't want to be shocked by it either. They really caught me off guard with Stannis/Shireen, and I don't want that to happen again. 

I said earlier that there is a scene where Sansa begs Theon for help. At the start of that scene, the Mother of Dragons theme is still lingering from the last scene (a little over long). Then the scene where Sansa learns about Bran/Rickon still being alive they play the same theme that is played when she is with Jon in season six episode 10. This theme sounds like the first notes of Mother of Dragons but with violins/violas??? I am not a music expert, if someone is correct me. I just thought that the  theme they played in the "Trust Me" scene was strange sounding. Maybe I heard it before??? I  think it matches with Mother of Dragons. They have played this new theme at least twice with Sansa. Does it mean anything?? Someone else mentioned they played some of the Targ theme when Jon beheaded the men who killed him, so maybe yes. Anyway, the camera shots are still suspect. Also, nothing D&D and all the others really matched what I saw this season.  Sansa is so jealous she makes him a cloak and gives him the best room????? No, not even in a fantasy. 

[Meera of Tarth]

13 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

So let's look at the other ships. For Sansa, they ruled out Tyrion, they tossed out the forced marriage. For Sansa, they ruled out Jon, they said they never even considered it. For Arya, GRRM ruled out Jon, he said he scrapped the outline. None of those will happen.

Sansa and Sandor had lots of setup on the show. Arya and Gendry, too. Those are book stories with romantic references. GRRM said there's something there with Sansa and Sandor on the show, too, and said Arya and Gendry will have more story in the books.

 

I agree that Tyrion is completely ruled out for Sansa unless something very strange happens, because they forgot about the marriage when she married Ramsay (although they sayed it was because she had not consummated and the ceremony was in front of other Gods...) but one can't be married twice (in the same epoch) so Tyrion is ruled out IMO.

Let's discuss the other options:

-Harry (he might appear in S7? although unlikely) 

-SweetRobin. Lysa said they would marry. It could happen for political reasons, but since Jon is in power, I think it's unlikely because he would protect her.

-Jon. Extremely unlikely because they have been raised as siblings, Jon is in power and it doesn't make sense, plus they said it was not going to happen.

Harry and SweetRobin now that Sansa is not in the Vale in the show are discarded. Of course things can get more complicated and since she is a Lady and now Jon is the heir he could make her marry another man, like LF wanted. However, after everything she has suffered I think that if she marries again this time will be for love.

-LF:  "and you by my side" --> if it happened it would of course be unrequited and I don't think she would agree unless there's no other choice..... (a thread of the lives of the people she loves, a false  betrohal to spy him without involving anything sexual....) .  I think LF wouldn't survive the wedding night if that happened considering she will likely discover he is a true villain. I also discard it because Sansa won't marry again out of love in the show; and at worst she would be betrothed to Harry in the books. 

-Sandor: They have a story and they love eachother. The story could be developed in the show next season.

-Euron: They don't have a story together and hope they won't, but there is a lot of story to tell. If it happened, it would be like with LF.

-No one. She could end up not being married and possibly chosing the man she loves: Sandor or either end the story alone with/without having experienced something with Sandor.

In the case of Arya  

She has a story with Gendry in the books and in the show they hinted at her having a little crush on him, so something could happen.

Arya and Jon have the strongest relationship in the books than any other characters and I can agree that there are hints that could be considered as a potential romance. I don't interpret them as so, but there is a lot of speculation about that and I can understand the point of view. In the show, though, they are vague, except for the fact this season she was reminded of her brother, and a few moments in previous seasons, but in the case of Jon, they are non-existent.

I think that political marriages don't work for Arya at this point of the story unless that involves other motives, Jon i sin power and I highly doubt he would marry his little sister to anyone.

[Meera of Tarth]

30 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

If there is one thing I know, it is that this show will disappointment me. I am not emotionally invested in Jon/Sansa, but I don't want to be shocked by it either. They really caught me off guard with Stannis/Shireen, and I don't want that to happen again. 

I said earlier that there is a scene where Sansa begs Theon for help. At the start of that scene, the Mother of Dragons theme is still lingering from the last scene (a little over long). Then the scene where Sansa learns about Bran/Rickon still being alive they play the same theme that is played when she is with Jon in season six episode 10. This theme sounds like the first notes of Mother of Dragons but with violins/violas??? I am not a music expert, if someone is correct me. I just thought that the  theme they played in the "Trust Me" scene was strange sounding. Maybe I heard it before??? I  think it matches with Mother of Dragons. They have played this new theme at least twice with Sansa. Does it mean anything?? Someone else mentioned they played some of the Targ theme when Jon beheaded the men who killed him, so maybe yes. Anyway, the camera shots are still suspect. Also, nothing D&D and all the others really matched what I saw this season.  Sansa is so jealous she makes him a cloak and gives him the best room????? No, not even in a fantasy. 

I hadn't noticed that.....maybe I'll listen to them when I have time. Do you have the links?

I'm not a music expert either, but what you say is interesintg. I don't think it might hint at JonSa because the theme also plays out when she is with Theon, but it might mean something else.

But yes, this show disappoints a lot, as you said. I was in a thread of LSH that lasted pages and pages and the hints were huge...all kind of them. So probably it means nothing. Or not.

[Bear Claw]

2 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I hadn't noticed that.....maybe I'll listen to them when I have time. Do you have the links?

I'm not a music expert either, but what you say is interesintg. I don't think it might hint at JonSa because the theme also plays out when she is with Theon, but it might mean something else.

But yes, this show disappoints a lot, as you said. I was in a thread of LSH that lasted pages and pages and the hints were huges...all kind of them. So probably it means nothing. Or not.

Theon and Sansa at about: : 32

At the start of this.

They seem very similar to me, but I am not a music person. 

[Meera of Tarth]

Thanks, now I have to go, but I'll listen to them

 

[Le Cygne]

13 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Sansa and Sandor had lots of setup on the show. Arya and Gendry, too. Those are book stories with romantic references. GRRM said there's something there with Sansa and Sandor on the show, too, and said Arya and Gendry will have more story in the books.

Cogman said they always planned to bring Sandor back, and the Sansa and the Hound relationship is a big part of the show. The showrunners said about Sansa and Sandor, the developing relationship between these two, much more to come.

Now, seems like if Sansa and Sandor were a big part of the show, and much more is how they described their relationship, then it's significant. So maybe the 20 or so scenes together, based on Beauty and the Beast, and all the hints after, were actually for a reason.

Now let's see, how does Sandor feel about Sansa on the show? They said he is attracted to her. They also said it's a good thing Rory is taller than Sophie during this scene where they added the line where he pledges to protect her.

And they added this scene, too. He gave her his cloak. He called her his pet name for her four times. They also added the happy memory line. Rory said about the love, yeah there might be after filming that scene. And much more.

Seems like Sandor has got quite the thing for Sansa. He sure cares a lot about her. Always looked out for her. And he said ask her who came back for her, and now is told it's never too late to come back and sent north.