Possible marriage

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

She didn't really gave aways spoilers. More like she never view him as a Stark before. He was a bastard, outsider to her as her mother. She talked about how she has similiar views on Jon as her mother. That's why they never been close or jealousy, she doesn't trust him fully. Sansa might find out but this interview doesn't indicate it.

Yeah, she said she will always think of him as a brother, and she mentioned the Targ stuff before. I think they are going to focus on Jon and Dany. And Sansa and Sandor have more story.

There are key plot points and relationships they knew about all along, and they've said they have been setting up from the start. And I think they saved the best for last, for the climax.

[Meera of Tarth]

8 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

And they added this scene, too. He gave her his cloak. He called her his pet name for her four times. They also added the happy memory line. Rory said about the love, yeah there might be after filming that scene. And much more.

I had forgotten about the cloak scene in my analysis. That reminds me that it can be foreshadowing of marriage between them.

[Meera of Tarth]

48 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

Theon and Sansa at about: : 32

At the start of this.

They seem very similar to me, but I am not a music person. 

I am sure I have listened this mix before in other episodes but I don't recall it now.

I think they have a slightly similarity in the first second or two, but the same would be for Goodbye Brother's ending. They are all similar...but different.

I'm not an expert so I don't know. But I think this specific theme has been used before, although I don't know when, and it has similarities with others but I think it is specific.

If someone might know about music, it would make clear our doubts.

[Newstar]

55 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I had forgotten about the cloak scene in my analysis. That reminds me that it can be foreshadowing of marriage between them.

It (being the fact that in the show Sandor drapes it over her as opposed to throwing it at her) is foreshadowing of jack squat. That episode (2x04) was written by Vanessa Taylor, not D&D, a writer who left the show fairly early on, and D&D didn't know anything when they were writing Season 2 about anything past ADWD. They were just as ignorant of TWOW and beyond as book readers. If you're going to start parsing the show's tea leaves for information about future plot developments in TWOW and beyond, you can't go back beyond Season 4, since D&D didn't get the rundown on endgames until April 2013 (when Season 4 was being written). Even Season 4 was pretty well plotted out and mapped before D&D met with GRRM, so Season 5 is the first to be written with roughly complete knowledge of the future plots. Season 6 is conspicuously bare of SanSan references (and no, the fact that they both drink ale is not a "reference") but larded with clear and obvious references to Sandor and Arya's relationship; it's pretty obvious the way the wind is blowing (and Darksky's comparison of SanSan shippers convinced it will be a thing to LSH fans was apt). Trying to cite quotes from D&D or Bryan Cogman from circa Seasons 1 and 2 to claim that the ship is endgame makes no sense whatsoever.

On the cloak bit...if we're talking about the books, Petyr gives Sansa his cloak in ASOS when she escapes. Funny how that's forgotten.

[Meera of Tarth]

9 minutes ago, Newstar said:

It (being the fact that in the show Sandor drapes it over her as opposed to throwing it at her) is foreshadowing of jack squat. That episode (2x04) was written by Vanessa Taylor, not D&D, a writer who left the show fairly early on, and D&D didn't know anything when they were writing Season 2 about anything past ADWD. They were just as ignorant of TWOW and beyond as book readers. If you're going to start parsing the show's tea leaves for information about future plot developments in TWOW and beyond, you can't go back beyond Season 4, since D&D didn't get the rundown on endgames until April 2013 (when Season 4 was being written). Even Season 4 was pretty well plotted out and mapped before D&D met with GRRM, so Season 5 is the first to be written with roughly complete knowledge of the future plots. Season 6 is conspicuously bare of SanSan references (and no, the fact that they both drink ale is not a "reference") but larded with clear and obvious references to Sandor and Arya's relationship; it's pretty obvious the way the wind is blowing (and Darksky's comparison of SanSan shippers convinced it will be a thing to LSH fans was apt). Trying to cite quotes from D&D or Bryan Cogman from circa Seasons 1 and 2 to claim that the ship is endgame makes no sense whatsoever.

 

good try.

But Sandor gives Sansa a cloak in the books, and they were adapting books at that time. It can be foreshadowing without them knowing it.

Quote

Someone give the girl something to cover herself with,” the Imp said.
Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. The coarse weave was scratchy against her skin, but no velvet had ever felt so fine.” 

 

 

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On the cloak bit...if we're talking about the books, Petyr gives Sansa his cloak in ASOS when she escapes. Funny how that's forgotten.

does Sansa like it as much as Sandor's?

[Le Cygne]

3 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I had forgotten about the cloak scene in my analysis. That reminds me that it can be foreshadowing of marriage between them.

Oh, there's lots. They had them carefully placed, he's standing between the two unwanted Lannisters, and there's a moment in the scene where she stands to face him as she's wearing his cloak. Books, she thinks no velvet felt so fine. And there's the whole nine yards of the tall strong man who gives her his cloak of protection and kisses her.

All those beats are hit in their story, thanks to her (and she gives him the kiss).  There's lots more, she tries to read his face when he says I have no wife. He says, what wife, when he finds out about her. She puts his bloody cloak in a cedar chest (hope chests in the US). She places him in the marriage bed because of how he'd kissed her. There are even hints about kids worded the same way.

It's a really nice story! Lots of layers. And the show hit on a lot of this, the separation period is part of the story, and they did a lot of setup, and commented on the relationship as significant. And of course, they always planned to bring him back, and then as soon as they did, sent him north. Could be a really nice high point on the show, too (if they don't bungle it too badly.)

Also another cool point, she puts it on herself in the books.

[Meera of Tarth]

1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh, there's lots. They had them carefully placed in that scene he's standing between the two unwanted Lannisters, and there's a moment in that scene where she stands to face him as she's wearing his cloak. Books, she thinks no velvet felt so fine. And there's the whole nine yards of the tall strong man who gives her his cloak of protection and kisses her.

All those beats are hit in their story, thanks to her (and she gives him the kiss).  There's lots more, she tries to read his face when he says I have no wife. He says, what wife, when he finds out about her. She puts his bloody cloak in a cedar chest (hope chests in the US). She places him in the marriage bed because of how he'd kissed her. There are even hints about kids worded the same way.

 

Yes, it's all about cloaks!

It's only that I had forgotten the meaning for a moment...

Quote

It's a really nice story! Lots of layers. And the show hit on a lot of this, the separation period is part of the story, and they did a lot of setup, and commented on the relationship as significant. And of course, they always planned to bring him back, and then as soon as they did, sent him north. Could be a really nice high point on the show, too (if they don't bungle it too badly.)

yep

 

[Le Cygne]

2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

good try.

But Sandor gives Sansa a cloak in the books, and they were adapting books at that time. It can be foreshadowing without them knowing it.

Oh yeah, and they talked to him about the story in the planning stages to get a sense of what was important, they said so. It's common with a book series in progress, the author tells them what's important, and gets more specific as details are known.

Sandor's Cloak... by Sansa Stark...

Quote

Sandor Clegane was the first rider to appear. He wore an olive-green cloak over his soot-grey armor. That, and his hound's-head helm, were his only concession to ornament...

In the back of the royal box, Sandor Clegane stood at guard, his hands resting on his swordbelt. The white cloak of the Kingsguard was draped over his broad shoulders and fastened with a jeweled brooch, the snowy cloth looking somehow unnatural against his brown roughspun tunic and studded leather jerkin. "Lady Sansa," the Hound announced curtly when he saw her...

"Enough," she heard the Hound rasp...

Boros shoved a meaty hand down the front of Sansa's bodice and gave a hard yank. The silk came tearing away, baring her to the waist. Sansa covered her breasts with her hands...

Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. The coarse weave was scratchy against her skin, but no velvet had ever felt so fine...

Clegane lifted her to the ground. His white cloak was torn and stained, and blood seeped through a jagged tear in his left sleeve. "The little bird's bleeding. Someone take her back to her cage and see to that cut."...

"I could keep you safe," he rasped. "They're all afraid of me. No one would hurt you again, or I'd kill them." He yanked her closer, and for a moment she thought he meant to kiss her...

Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. "Little bird," he said once more, his voice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps.

When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering...

I wish the Hound were here. The night of the battle, Sandor Clegane had come to her chambers to take her from the city, but Sansa had refused. Sometimes she lay awake at night, wondering if she'd been wise. She had his stained white cloak hidden in a cedar chest beneath her summer silks...

She had dreamed of her wedding a thousand times, and always she had pictured how her betrothed would stand behind her tall and strong, sweep the cloak of his protection over her shoulders, and tenderly kiss her cheek as he leaned forward to fasten the clasp...

{He made a queer sound, and it took her a moment to realize he was sobbing. "And the little bird, your pretty sister, I stood there in my white cloak and let them beat her."}...

As the boy's lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt, when his cruel mouth pressed down on her own. He had come to Sansa in the darkness as green fire filled the sky. He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak...

 

[Mandzipop]

Beware with comparing the music. Jon's theme tune changed in episode 3. Just before he hung the traitors the music was a cross between the Stark and Targaryan theme. I don't know the name of the songs.

[Bear Claw]

55 minutes ago, Mandzipop said:

Beware with comparing the music. Jon's theme tune changed in episode 3. Just before he hung the traitors the music was a cross between the Stark and Targaryan theme. I don't know the name of the songs.

Yes, I am trying to look for objective clues as to what is going to happen next. Apparently investing time and watching the story/actors is giving me the wrong impression according to all the outside show interviews. (I didn't see a prelude to a great betrayal as some are saying.) The composer of this series, apart from the directors, has to know the most about the end game. After all, his work will be taken as a whole. The music has to reflect the story. 

[Newstar]

11 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

good try.

But Sandor gives Sansa a cloak in the books, and they were adapting books at that time. It can be foreshadowing without them knowing it.

 

 

does Sansa like it as much as Sandor's?

He throws it at her in the books. A few SanSan fans have attempted to read meaning into the fact that he drapes it over her in the show as opposed to chucking it at her, which makes no sense for the reasons I stated.

As for Petyr, he did drape his cloak around her shoulders in the books:

Quote

Two sailors were waiting by the rail to help her onto the deck. Sansa was trembling. "She's cold," she heard someone say. He took off his cloak and put it around her shoulders. "There, is that better, my lady? Rest easy, the worst is past and done."

Hmm.

It's bizarre when certain posters keep repeating the same quotes from circa Season 1 and 2 to argue that the ship is endgame, particularly when 1) those quotes are not clearly indicated to be from 2011 or 2012 (thus misleading readers who don't know the origin of the quotes) and 2) the fact that no significance can be attributed to quotes from D&D made before April 2013, particularly those made in a particular context, is ignored.

Quote

Oh yeah, and they talked to him about the story in the planning stages to get a sense of what was important, they said so. It's common with a book series in progress, the author tells them what's important, and gets more specific as details are known.

By their own admission D&D didn't know anything about post-ADWD material until April 2013, which is what necessitated that meeting in the first place. They were flying blind in those first three seasons, which explains a lot of the writing choices they made (writing out Robb's will, which it turns out they would later need, giving Gendry a storyline and then getting rid of him when they realized they didn't need him, etc.). They wouldn't have known anything about canon SanSan until April 2013, and whatever they learned in April 2013 points away from SanSan (thus the focus on Sandor's relationship with Arya instead).

If Sansa has an OTP in the show, it's Petyr. That was why the writers had her thawing towards him in 6x10 and commenting "It's a pretty picture" to his grand vision of her on the Iron Throne with Petyr at her side. If we're taking actors' comments about the characters as predictive of canon--as a poster upthread included quotes from Rory about Sandor's feelings to argue in favour of the ship becoming canon--Sophie Turner has been shipping Petyr/Sansa hard for a few seasons now and thinks that Sansa's preference would be to hold the Iron Throne with Petyr at her side.

It's very misleading to post a highly context-specific Bryan Cogman tweet from 2011, or other context-specific comments from D&D in 2011 and 2012, and suggest it's some sort of endorsement of your ship as endgame. And if you need to post very misleading quotes out of context to argue that your ship is a done deal in the show, the expression "grasping at straws" comes to mind.

[Meera of Tarth]

6 minutes ago, Newstar said:

He throws it at her in the books. A few SanSan fans have attempted to read meaning into the fact that he drapes it over her in the show as opposed to chucking it at her, which makes no sense for the reasons I stated.

As for Petyr, he did drape his cloak around her shoulders in the books:

Hmm.

It's bizarre when certain posters keep repeating the same quotes from circa Season 1 and 2 to argue that the ship is endgame, particularly when 1) those quotes are not clearly indicated to be from 2011 or 2012 (thus misleading readers who don't know the origin of the quotes) and 2) the fact that no significance can be attributed to quotes from D&D made before April 2013, particularly those made in a particular context, is ignored.

 

 

Ok, first of all this is a marriage thread. Lately it has been focused on Sansa and we are trying to debate if she is going to marry and who.

As I said in my previous post, if you have read it, I am not repeating quotes about the show, I was saying that your statement about the cloak not being foreshadowing because they didn't know the endgame was not valid. Why? I'll explain it:

I was referring to that if they are adapting the books and that scene appears, if in  that scene the author foreshadows marrying (which could be and it's logical because of the symbolic element -and also I repeat COULD (not MUST) be) then whathever you say about showrunners not knowing the endgame doesn't apply.

Now, about Petyr and Sandor cloaks comparisons..... my quote from the books (that could be foresahowing) is:

 

Quote

Someone give the girl something to cover herself with,” the Imp said.

Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. The coarse weave was scratchy against her skin, but no velvet had ever felt so fine.” 

and yours is:

Quote

Two sailors were waiting by the rail to help her onto the deck. Sansa was trembling. "She's cold," she heard someone say. He took off his cloak and put it around her shoulders. "There, is that better, my lady? Rest easy, the worst is past and done."

Comparing both, you have not convinced me that Sansa prefers LF's, which IMHO is determining of who would she marry if it is for love.

Sansa should decide now.

If you have other quotes to offer regarding Sansa's possible marriage with another one, I'll be interested to read them, which is what this thread is about.

Quote

By their own admission D&D didn't know anything about post-ADWD material until April 2013, which is what necessitated that meeting in the first place. They were flying blind in those first three seasons, which explains a lot of the writing choices they made (writing out Robb's will, which it turns out they would later need, giving Gendry a storyline and then getting rid of him when they realized they didn't need him, etc.). They wouldn't have known anything about canon SanSan until April 2013, and whatever they learned in April 2013 points away from SanSan (thus the focus on Sandor's relationship with Arya instead).

We still don't know how Robb's will is playing. In fact, I think that KiTN 2.0 might be the result of that omission.

We still don't know what role will Gendry play. They didn't get rid of him, just put him somewhere just in case he is needed. In a different place that in the books, but realizing he can appear later on.