Possible marriage

[Richard Writhen]

By the time Dany gets to Westeros, Rickon is 30 years old. I ship them.

[bb1180]

1 hour ago, Rhaechyll Targaryen said:

I think there's a lot about the Jon/Sansa pairing that makes sense but I see them as being the King and Queen of Westeros after all is said and done. 

 

I'm at least partially in agreement with each of your five points in favor of the possibility and many are discussed in that previous thread I mentioned a few days back.

The tie-ins to Arya and Sandor Clegane are the potential flies in the ointment,  but I thought it quite interesting that they made a point of emphasizing Arya's ties to Clegane this week,  but swept Sansa's connection under the rug last week.  I have the beginnings of a theory as to why that might be,  too,  and how it might tie into a potential Jon-Sansa issue,  but I want to give it another episode or two before I go fully out on that limb.  

 

[D-Shiznit]

Jon and Arya is way to eww worthy and creepy on the show. It will never happen, D&D are not gonna make Jon into a pedafile.

 

Jon and Sansa could be possible, but I doubt it.

 

Dany and Jon is the most likely to happen. Ice and Fire after all.

[Tyrek Lannister]

27 minutes ago, WolfQueenArya said:

Why do so many people like this pairing? There is no connection between them! Nothing! It's Jon and Arya that have the connection! And no, Sansa will not become the Queen. If they go this route on the show - shudders - but it will not happen in the books. 

Does it have to be though? Afaik most of the marriages in Westeros are arranged purely for political gain, not personal feelings. And besides, connection can be estabilished after time. See Ned/Catelyn.

Anyway I'd have no problem if they go with this route to be honest.

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

7 minutes ago, bb1180 said:

I'm at least partially in agreement with each of your five points in favor of the possibility and many are discussed in that previous thread I mentioned a few days back.

The tie-ins to Arya and Sandor Clegane are the potential flies in the ointment,  but I thought it quite interesting that they made a point of emphasizing Arya's ties to Clegane this week,  but swept Sansa's connection under the rug last week.  I have the beginnings of a theory as to why that might be,  too,  and how it might tie into a potential Jon-Sansa issue,  but I want to give it another episode or two before I go fully out on that limb.  

 

Aww man, you've piqued my interest but I guess I'll wait patiently.

25 minutes ago, WolfQueenArya said:

Why do so many people like this pairing? There is no connection between them! Nothing! It's Jon and Arya that have the connection! And no, Sansa will not become the Queen. If they go this route on the show - shudders - but it will not happen in the books. 

i find it interesting that the show bothered to include Cersei's lame prophecy at all. They cut out the valonqar part (likely because it's too obvious of a reveal) but kept in the stuff about the younger more beautiful (Queen) and Cersei losing her children. To me the show was saying that both of those things will happen so to me our choices are down to Sansa, Dany, and Margaery. 

Cersei is *never* right so that eliminates Margaery and leaves us with Dany and Sansa. I can see it being Dany, I don't find that impossible to believe, but the emotional connection of it being Sansa makes so much more sense because there is no personal connection for Cersei and Dany. Cersei and Sansa though--it's totally appropriate for Sansa to be the one who is younger and more beautiful because of all of the history between them. 

So, going with the idea that Sansa will be queen, the option is either that she becomes a consort or she's the Queen in the North. For a bunch of reasons (mainly that she has two male siblings and it seems that at least one is likely to survive, I don't think it's as likely that she'll be Queen of the North. 

So, I go back to Jon being Sansa's best bet at being queen. 

I also think about what Jon and Sansa both seem to want--children named after their lost siblings. To me it seems like they're already on the same page in a way and I can easily see it coming to fruition. 

I also think about the world book giving us the info dump that it wasn't just the Targaryens who have incest in their family tree. The Starks have examples of incest too. Is it possible that this was to prepare us for something? 

The other line from the books that I think about is Sansa thinking that she's a bastard just like Jon and how "sweet" it would be to see him once again. I can't help but think that a reunion is going to spark something in both of them. 

 

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

15 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Dany and Jon is the most likely to happen. Ice and Fire after all.

Don't Jon and Sansa also qualify as ice and fire? 

[D-Shiznit]

Jon is more Ice than fire besides, Dany is cleary Fire in the show, Dragons and surviving being burned alive and all.

[Tianzi]

1 hour ago, WolfQueenArya said:

Why do so many people like this pairing?

Cause he's a pretty boy and she's a pretty girl and they live on the same continent?

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

40 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Jon is more Ice than fire besides, Dany is cleary Fire in the show, Dragons and surviving being burned alive and all.

I see Jon as being half ice, half fire so a Dany pairing leans towards fire whereas a Sansa pairing leans towards ice. I feel like they both qualify as being ice and fire though. 

[bb1180]

1 hour ago, Rhaechyll Targaryen said:

Aww man, you've piqued my interest but I guess I'll wait patiently.

Ah screw it.  I've been wrong before. The crackpot, not-quite-a- theory is this:

Assuming that Sandor's introduction comes as part of Cersei's trial by combat...aka CleganeBowl...then it seems to me that Cersei has an incentive to prevent him from participating.  It just so happens that Arya is training with a renowned group of elite, for-hire assassins.  Could Sandor Clegane be Arya's assignment later this season?  I think maybe so.  It would explain why they emphasized him in Arya's arc rather than Sansa's last week. 

Now if that happens,  and if she succeeds,  how does that affect the Jon-Arya-Sansa dynamic,  assuming that Jon and Sansa will likely become close friends if they do indeed reunite this season?  This is an idea that only came to me after that Arya scene last night and I'm still considering the implications of it,  but I think it could reignite some old issues between Arya and Sansa and create potential for a Stark split,  which would be pretty tragic in light of all they've been through.      

 

[Myself656]

19 hours ago, Rhaechyll Targaryen said:

I see Jon as being half ice, half fire so a Dany pairing leans towards fire whereas a Sansa pairing leans towards ice. I feel like they both qualify as being ice and fire though. 

Actually, I think a strong case could be made that Sansa is neither Ice nor Fire both culturally (she is by far the most Southern of the Starks) and mystically (Lady; her connection to Northern magic; was killed by a magical fire sword which symbollically severs her ties to Ice).

If Jon is the balance of Ice and Fire and maintaining that balance is at all important to the resolution of the series' conflict, then I'd expect Jon's eventual spouse to similarly either also be in balance or have no ties (or only severed ties) to either Ice or Fire. In that sense Sansa is a better match than either Dany (ties to Fire) or Arya (ties to Ice). That Sansa is also a major PoV character yet has no obvious skill (fighting or magical) also points towards her having some sort of importance to the endgame outside of the conflict between Ice and Fire.

One thing I keep coming back to is one of GRRM's statements that one of the things he disliked about Tolkien is how certain things just didn't have nearly the degree of backstory he would have liked and cited Aragorn marrying Arwyn, who was barely even a character in the story at all, as one example.

It just stands to reason to me that, if GRRM viewed ASoIaF as some sort of LotR Done Right, he'd obviously want to give the Arwyn of the story some sort of voice so that the readers would understand the importance and significance of Aragorn's choice to marry her and her choice to give up immortality for him.

The argument could also be applied to Dany and Arya, since we've followed them from the beginning of the series as well, but I think just based on GRRM's logic, if Jon is to be the True King then his Queen will certainly be another viewpoint character and Sansa is the only surviving female viewpoint character from the first book who doesn't have an obvious way to impact the endgame of the story (Dany has her dragons and Arya will have her training as an assassin) unless its by marrying the eventual King.

Does it mean its going to happen? No. Does it mean its a possibility? Yes.

[WolfClaw]

On 4/5/2016 at 11:25 AM, Sekara said:

Hey guys,

as a result of  R+L=J, what seems to be true, let's wait till next week, I'm just wondering, if Jon and Sansa could marry to be Lord and Lady Stark - because I really don't think that Jon is supposed to be king of Westeros. Together they would have a strong claim to the North.

Why do I think so?

It is revealed, that GRRM planned the plot at the very beginning very different - with Jon and Tyrion fight for Arya's love. Sansa is actually somehow marry to Tyrion.

So, do you think, that Martin just switches the sisters?

That is a very interesting theory. Considering what we have seen so far it makes sense, so it could have some basis.

 

Right now the only possible candidates as love interests for Jon seems to be Arya, Daenerys and Sansa. As others have pointed out in the books Arya and Jon seem to be closer to each other, but this may just be “sibling” love or the fact that from all Stark children he was the bastard and she was the one that actually did not fit in standards. Arya was the love interest of Jon Snow in the original script, but that script has changed. There is also the problem that right now that the 5 year gap seems to be abandoned (of course we cannot be certain for anything until the final book is published), so in both mediums Arya is too young. Daenerys storyline so far seems to be cut off and heading to a different direction. There is also the problem that both Daenerys and Arya are in a different continent and that complicates things. That leaves only Sansa. From what we have seen and heard so far Sansa will meet Jon (there are reports that both Sophie Turner and Kit Harington were spotted on set filming a battle scene) so there must be a build up to their relationship. So that pairing may have potentials to be proven true.

 

Of course, right now all of that are pure speculations and the story could go anywhere. I also believe that if there is a love interest for Jon Snow, it will be the same person in both mediums.

 

I also agree that if Arya is the love interest of Jon then Maisie Williams is a very unfortunate casting choice.

[Stormourne]

Guys, people have been arguing that Arya and Jon could possibly develop feelings for one another that isn't just familial. Yet, no one seems to talk about the why and the how. For me, who has been the staunchest supporter for them both, I really do hope GrrM does fulfill his original outline in terms of their relationship. When I read through the first five books, I never thought of them in terms of shipping - but from the first few chapters of AGoT, I knew their sibling bond was so strong, it made me envious. I absolutely loved the bond they shared, and continue to share - I know the Mercy chapter didn't include any reminiscing (of Jon) like her other chapters, but I'll get to that in a minute.

First off, why are people assuming that a relationship between Jon and Arya would be one that is healthy? Or at least one that develops normally. Both characters have experienced tragedy, loss and despair. Arya most likely has some form of PTSD, and George has said that she is like that of a child soldier in Africa. That is the reason why she is able to push her 'Arya' personality so deep within herself. As we've seen in Mercy, however, Arya is still there. She is disconnected, though, from her emotions. We see this when she kills Raff - afterwards, she does not feel joy or sadness, no, she just frowns over the fact that she'd now need to drag his body down the flights of stairs.

Jon, on the other hand, was murdered because he choose to break his Oath to the Night's Watch and march an army of Wildlings south against the Boltons. The deciding factor for his decision was finding out that Arya Stark (Fake-Arya) had escaped the clutches of the Boltons and that Ramsay was after her - Also, keep in mind that Jon at the time was aware that Ramsay had flayed the six spearwives and made cloaks of their skins for Mance to wear (that's what the letter said). He genuinely feared for his little sister's life and thus took action under the pretense that because Ramsay had sworn to rip out his bastard heart, he had to take the fight to him. Or at least that's how I viewed it. Here is the moment that Jon decided to break his oath:

Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night’s Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair.Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon’s breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady’s coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird’s nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back …

Notice that Jon repeats "I want my bride back," three times. That is George emphasizing that fact. Fake-Arya is on the run, and is hunted by the man who "made [Mance] a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell." Jon chose to set aside his vow in order to save Arya by fighting against Ramsay. This, in and of itself, does not underline any romantic feelings in Jon for her, not yet. Bear with me a moment. Jon is then stabbed by his subordinates and left to bleed out in the snow. He dies. And when he is brought back, this is where the deicing factor will lie in regards to a Jon/Arya relationship. Jon died with Arya in mind - his last thoughts were:

Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold …

Stick them with the pointy end... That sentence is telling, I think. Jon thinks back to the moment he gave her Needle, which Arya herself couldn't throw away. Where Jon can't let Arya go, neither can she let him go, thus Arya will never be able to be No One. That's besides the point, though. Jon dies literally with her in mind. And when is does get resurrected (I'm 100% certain now), he might awake in that dark room with an obsession to protect Arya Stark, and his family. Does it matter that it was a Fake-Arya? No, because he died with his 'Arya' in mind.

So both characters have experienced death in a way. Jon physically, and Arya emotionally. That's a nice parallel that is another, albeit ambiguous hint at a Jon/Arya pairing in the future. I've established that they've both experienced tragedy, true tragedy. And that is what will bring them together when or if they reunite. I think it will be important for them to meet up first, as they will also bond over the loss of all their other siblings (even though they are still alive, save Robb).

Nymeria and Ghost could also play a role in a future Jon/Arya relationship, insofar as if both direwolves mate with one another (keep in mind that the direwolves are like mirrors of their respective humans). Ghost is sombre and silent like Jon, Nymeria is rash and strong-willed - we see this with her amassing a large number of wolves and attacking humans. If the direwolves took on the traits of their humans from early on, could they still be influenced by them in the present? If so, perhaps (against instinct to not mate with blood relatives) they will have offspring, partly because they are confused and in emotional despair like their human counterparts. For Arya, though, she isn't in pain so much as the emotional pain has already been so great that she has become almost emotionless at this point (in the Mercy POV). All the emotions she does show is just an act, nothing more than a play to fool those around her.

Anyway, as I've mentioned before, I think it is important for them to reunite first, as this will help develop any feelings that are not familial. In each other's presence they could find solace and reprieve from emotional distress. For Arya, I think Jon is the one character that can truly pull her back from the darkness, the abyss. After they do reunite (here's hoping) I think it would take a while for their relationship to transition from sibling to romantic, insofar as they would obviously be aware of the social stigma attached to Incest. And that's the beauty of such a situation. They know it's wrong, we know it's wrong, yet how can what they feel be wrong. The novels could end in them not even pursuing said feelings. George did state that the ending would be bitter-sweet. Arya could be Nissa Nissa reincarnate, and Jon Azor Ahai reborn. Jon might have to sacrifice her for the greater good, and the readers knowing that they have incestuous feelings for one another (even though they never acted on it) would make the situation even more tragic. Tragic in a sense that they've fallen in love, and were also torn apart from forces outside their control.

There are endless possibilities with this ship. Don't just push it aside because incest makes you feel uncomfortable. I mean, Jon and Arya do know what incest is... they would obviously share similar feelings with you. They did both grow up together, as brother and sister. You don't just forget that. But what if despite that, they do fall in love? It would be interesting to explore. - I am a realist, though, and I know that George most likely gave the Jon/Arya romance from the original plot to Jamie/Cersei in order to make them more grey.

I'll end this post (more a essay) with some lines with our favorite Maester in the Seven Kingdoms... "What is honor compared to a woman's love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms ... We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy."

*One realm! One god! One ship!*

Jon Snow is Alive!

*One realm! One god! One ship!*

Jon Stark is Alive!

*One realm! One god! One ship!*

Jon Targaryen is Alive!!!

P.S I forgot this was about Jon/Arya on the show. Lol.

[Joan Jett]

On May 4, 2016 at 4:25 AM, Sekara said:

Hey guys,

as a result of  R+L=J, what seems to be true, let's wait till next week, I'm just wondering, if Jon and Sansa could marry to be Lord and Lady Stark - because I really don't think that Jon is supposed to be king of Westeros. Together they would have a strong claim to the North.

Why do I think so?

It is revealed, that GRRM planned the plot at the very beginning very different - with Jon and Tyrion fight for Arya's love. Sansa is actually somehow marry to Tyrion.

So, do you think, that Martin just switches the sisters?

Martin definitely did not "switch the sisters" and it's very lazy to think that. There is absolutely no foreshadowing in the books that Jon will marry Sansa. None. It's just something people come up with because they make the dumb assumption that Sansa replaced Arya in the outline. Which she clearly did not. 

Lets just think for a minute and actually look at the outline as compared what happens in Martin's published books. In the outline, Tyrion burns Winterfell. In the books, Ramsay burns Winterfell. In the outline, Tyrion has a "deadly rivalry" with Jon over Arya. In the books, Ramsay has a "deadly rivalry" with Jon over (f)Arya. It's clear that it's Ramsay who has replaced Tyrion in the love triangle. 

Sansa marrying Tyrion does not mean she has "replaced" Arya in the triangle. Why? Well Let's look at Jon's reaction to the topic of the Sansa/Tyrion marriage. "

If the tales coming up the kingsroad could be believed, the King's Hand had been murdered by his dwarf son whilst sitting on a privy. Jon had known Tyrion Lannister, briefly. He took my hand and named me friend. It was hard to believe the little man had it in him to murder his own sire, but the fact of Lord Tywin's demise seemed to be beyond doubt."

There actually isn't any. All that happens is that he thinks about his friend Tyrion and whether or not he actually killed Tywin. He actually spares no thoughts of Sansa until his last chapter where he thinks of his entire family. 

Compare that (non)response to Jon's reaction to Arya's marriage. 

"He's to marry Arya Stark. My little sister." Jon could almost see her in that moment, long-faced and gawky, all knobby knees and sharp elbows, with her dirty face and tangled hair. They would wash the one and comb the other, he did not doubt, but he could not imagine Arya in a wedding gown, nor Ramsay Bolton's bed. No matter how afraid she is, she will not show it. If he tries to lay a hand on her, she'll fight him.

"Your sister," Iron Emmett said, "how old is …" 

By now she'd be eleven, Jon thought. Still a child. "I have no sister. Only brothers. Only you." Lady Catelyn would have rejoiced to hear those words, he knew. That did not make them easier to say. His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton's throat as easily." 

Jon here is much more emotional. And violent. He actually forms a picture of Arya in his mind and worries for her. He wants crush the throat of Arya's future husband. That's a deadly rivalry alright. And besides that, Arya from the outline is still Arya. She wielded her sword needle and fought against the others. Don's see Sansa weilding any swords. 

 

Edit: Even if you do argue the "political marriage" angle, there is still absolutely NO FORESHADOWING TO SUPPORT IT.  You can't get around that.

[Joan Jett]

On May 5, 2016 at 8:05 PM, The Arthur Smith said:

I thought he meant the ending for the overall plot (with the White Walkers/Others and all that). Jon/Arya pairing is something GRMM intended initially when planning out 3 books, but maybe he dropped the idea in the same way he dropped the 5 years age gap.

Along with his comments of sticking to the 1991 ending, GRRM also said the fates of Jon, Arya, and Tyrion have always been set in stone.

Quote

I read somewhere that Tyrion was originally intended to be in a complicated, romantic relationship with Sansa and in a love triangle with Arya/Jon at the same time. But GRMM might have change the nature of Tyrion's and Sansa's relationship as he developed the plot

Where did you read this? Surely it didn't come from GRRM.

[Joan Jett]

 

On May 5, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Ingelheim said:

The thing with Jon/Arya on the show is that their relationship doesn't really exist. Sure, at Season one they shared a few moments, but that's it.

Look at Jon's arc in ADWD. Arya is a pretty big thing for him. Alys Kastark, the Pink Letter, etc...all of this is because of her. Jon loves her so much he is capable of breaking his vows for her, and going after Ramsay. This whole arc has been dropped on the show. Instead, Jon is stabbed because of the wildlings.

On the Show, instead of fArya...we have Sansa up there.  And it looks like Sansa and Jon are meeting within the next 2-3 episodes. If Jon is going to end up with any of his sisters, I bet my ass he ends up with Sansa on the Show, and Arya on the books. 

Now, as I said before, I think neither will happen. But I would really be surprised if there's anything between Jon and Arya on the show. D&D didn't set up their relationship, unlike Martin.

It certainly does exist. According to Maisie in a recent interview, the thought of seeing Jon again has been the only thing keeping her going. Obviously the showrunners must have told her this because we know she doesn't read the books.

On May 9, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Rhaechyll Targaryen said:

3) I think there's something very appealing about Jon being the hero that Sansa thinks doesn't exist. I love the line about Slynt and think the inclusion of it was very deliberate. Jon is also the prince that Sansa always dreamt about and I love the idea that he was under her nose at Winterfell the entire time.

4) I think there's a reason for the distance between Sansa and Jon and IMO it's to make a future pairing between them less squicky since they seem the least like siblings. I also think that with the emphasis on incest in this series that we're being prepared for another union that can be seen as incestuous by some. (The alternative is Jon/Dany and I feel like Dany is probably going to die towards the end of the seventh book. I also think that people would be a lot more squicked out by an aunt/nephew match. Obviously, Jon doesn't have to end up with anyone but IMO it's likely and I think that Sansa and Dany are easily the two best candidates so I'd rather he end up with his cousin.)

5) It makes a lot of sense to me in superficial ways. Jon and Sansa look like better versions of Ned and Catelyn who were arguably the happiest couple in this series. I can definitely see a Jon/Sansa pairing giving the series a hopeful ending. I can easily see Sansa going for a guy who reminds her of her father and we know Jon likes redheads. ;p 

Another small superficial thing that probably doesn't mean anything but I love anyway is when Sansa wraps herself in the Hound's cloak. I know that everyone thinks that this is in favor of SanSan but I think it could be another hint towards Jon. Jaime associates the Kingsguard cloak with snow at one point so I'm not the only one. She wraps herself in snow white cloak that is "stained with blood and fire". That instantly made me think of the Targaryen words and wonder if this could be foreshadowing. 

Sansa's hero is SANDOR. Not Jon. She hardly even thinks of Jon in the books, she forgets he even exists sometimes.  

How the fuck is Sandor's cloak a connection to Jon?? That's one of the biggest reaches I've ever seen on this site. It's his cloak. I guess you think the kiss Sansa imagines with Sandor is a connection to Jon too? 

The Slynt connection was not intended by the author. It's confirmed that Jon was originally going to hang Slynt and a fan told GRRM at a con that it would be better to cut off his head. 

Also Jon does not have a thing for redheads. That's a lazy misconception. He has a thing for independent and wild women. Which isn't really Sansa. In fact Sansa is the polar opposite of Jon's type.

And have you actually read the series? If GRRM is going to do an incestuous couple, he's not going to make it "less squicky" in any way. That's not his style and it doesn't fit the pattern that all incestuous couples so far have followed.

On May 9, 2016 at 7:50 PM, Rhaechyll Targaryen said:

The other line from the books that I think about is Sansa thinking that she's a bastard just like Jon and how "sweet" it would be to see him once again. I can't help but think that a reunion is going to spark something in both of them. 

OK. Let me get this straight. In the books Arya has been longing to see Jon again since the very beginning, wishing he was there to quell her loneliness, wishing he was there to muss her hair (she says she's like it "better than anything"), wanting to see him even more than her own home. In each book. Always expressing desire to go to the wall and see him again. Repeatedly. 

Yet, Sansa thinks it would be "sweet to see him" once and all of the sudden it's foreshadowing that they will fall in love? Despite the fact that right before its established by Sansa that she "hadn't thought about Jon in ages?" Get a grip. Nothing is going to happen between them. The context of her thinking of Jon makes it worse. He doesn't naturally come to her mind because she genuinely misses him. Myranda brings Lord Snow up in conversation and then Sansa connects the dots. 

[Ingelheim]

Just now, Joan Jett said:

 

It certainly does exist. According to Maisie in a recent interview, the thought of seeing Jon again has been the only thing keeping her going. Obviously the showrunners must have told her this because we know she doesn't read the books.

 

Sure, but that is not shown on the Show. I mean, watch the inside the episode for 5x03-5x04 (I don't remember which).

On that episode, Arya has to get ridden of Needle, but she doesn't. Look at the reasons D&D give for that. It's not the obvoius one.

The Jon-Arya relationship on the show does exist, I'll give you that, but it's really nothing compared to the books one. As I mentioned before, Arya is a huge part of Jon's arc in ADWD. It's the reason why he breaks his oath and gets stabbed. On the Show, they didn't care about that. Instead, we got Sansa in fArya's place.

That's why I said that the Jon/Sansa thing makes sense within the context of the Show. On the books it would be like WTF, but not on the Show.

[Joan Jett]

6 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Sure, but that is not shown on the Show. I mean, watch the inside the episode for 5x03-5x04 (I don't remember which).

On that episode, Arya has to get ridden of Needle, but she doesn't. Look at the reasons D&D give for that. It's not the obvoius one.

The Jon-Arya relationship on the show does exist, I'll give you that, but it's really nothing compared to the books one. As I mentioned before, Arya is a huge part of Jon's arc in ADWD. It's the reason why he breaks his oath and gets stabbed. On the Show, they didn't care about that. Instead, we got Sansa in fArya's place.

That's why I said that the Jon/Sansa thing makes sense within the context of the Show. On the books it would be like WTF, but not on the Show.

I know, but that's the show's fault. They're like that with Jaime/Brienne and SanSan, too. 

My point is that if D&D took the time to explain the strong Jon/Arya relationship to Maisie, and they obviously did, then it's significant. 

[Ingelheim]

Just now, Joan Jett said:

I know, but that's the show's fault. They're like that with Jaime/Brienne and SanSan, too. 

My point is that if D&D took the time to explain the strong Jon/Arya relationship to Maisie, and they obviously did, then it's significant. 

Mmm not really sure I agree with that. SanSan was pretty well established on the Show, back in Season 1 and 2. There were many clues and hints about it, even after Sandor left KL. We got Jaime and the Tarth gaze last season as well, although I agree with you, Jaime/Brienne has been left out for some reason these last episodes.

But, Jon/Arya relationship? They've never cared about it. At least that's what I feel.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to meet up in Season 7 and fall in love, but I actually see far more possibilities for Jon/Sansa than Jon/Arya on the Show. Considering the spoilers we know, it's really unlikely they'd go for Jon/Arya.

[Joan Jett]

43 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Mmm not really sure I agree with that. SanSan was pretty well established on the Show, back in Season 1 and 2. There were many clues and hints about it, even after Sandor left KL. We got Jaime and the Tarth gaze last season as well, although I agree with you, Jaime/Brienne has been left out for some reason these last episodes.

But, Jon/Arya relationship? They've never cared about it. At least that's what I feel.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to meet up in Season 7 and fall in love, but I actually see far more possibilities for Jon/Sansa than Jon/Arya on the Show. Considering the spoilers we know, it's really unlikely they'd go for Jon/Arya.

Like I said before, it's similar with Jaime/Brienne and SanSan. Just recently in one of the new episodes, Brienne had the opportunity to tell Sansa that she had seen the Hound. But she didn't for some reason. They could have had a whole conversation about him. 

And atm Jaime/Brienne really isn't going anywhere at all. Sure Jaime saw Tarth on the way to Dorne, but that was it. Now Jaime and Cersei are twinning in KL with matching haircuts and Jaime is fully on her side. 

Meanwhile the Sandor/Arya relationship is being emphasized even more, God knows why. 

The writers just choose not to focus on the right things, IMO. And if they start it will be at the last minute. Pretty sure it's confirmed that D&D were planning on putting Sansa in Jeyne's place back in 2012. Back then they probably hadn't realized how it would be taking away from the emphasis on Jon/Arya relationship, but they went with it anyway because they liked the idea. It was really a terrible decision on their part because the (f)Arya situation was really a great way to highlight how much Jon loves her. He dies thinking of her for crying out loud. Before ADWD, they mainly just had thoughts of each other and you can't really translate thoughts to the screen very well (though Maisie does a really good job during the s5 needle scene). 

 

If the Jon/Arya relationship wasn't going to be significant, then D&D wouldn't have bothered telling Maisie all that stuff. Here's most of what she said:

Quote

Even after several seasons apart, Williams says that Arya’s hope of reuniting with Jon has been “the one thing that’s keeping her sane. Although she loves Bran and misses Bran to pieces and loves Sansa and misses Sansa to pieces, if someone’s your family, but you don’t see them for years, they’re still your family, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you have that bond anymore, and I think that’s how it would be with Bran and Sansa. It’s like, ‘I don’t know you anymore, and I don’t really want to.’ With Jon, there was a connection there, and they would always want to see each other again and that’s what’s been keeping her [going]. So discovering that news would send her down a bad path.”

This is what the showrunners told her.