Ser Criston Cole

[Valens]

Very interesting and ambiguous character, dontcha think? In the beginning he is the very soul of knighthood and chivalry, being repulsed by Rhaenyra's advances at him and then, he became Aegon II's muscle. He slit the throat of Lord Lyman Beesbury for supporting Rhaenyra's claim. That, despite being ordered by Aegon no doubt, was a brutal act still. He also supported the crowning of that bastard Aegon and made it happen, along with Otto Hightower of course. They ignored Viserys' wishes, which was another crime. He also taught Aemond the Monster to sword fight and along with him led the Greens in the field. For all these reasons, one must hate him, or at least dislike him. I do anyway. I was glad when I finally read that he was killed by arrows, lol. And by Northmen as well. No matter how valiant and skilled he was at fighting, this guy obviously had something negative about him.

[BanzaiZ]

He's definitely a polarizing figure. I think he realized later on that not being in Rhaenyra's graces would cost him, and he'd also become embroiled in the green's intrigue. Everyone had their part to place in the Dance of Dragons, but this guy was definitely the final match that started a lot of useless bloodshed and ultimately led to the downfall of Westeros' first ruling dynasty. The whole affair was such a pointless, tragic waste of life. It's very easy to look back and say "if only", and Cole is a BIG "if only", though certainly not the only one.

[OuttaOldtown]

I think its interesting that Jamie makes mention of him to Loras, in many ways he was the Jamie of his era. I felt myself siding with the Blacks & feel that to some degree that Archmaester Gyldayn was pro-Green..

[Paxter Redwyne]

He  certainly is a bad person, but i do not consider him as bad. Something happened between Rhaenyra and Criston what made him her staunchest enemy. 

Personally i think that they were both in love but ater rhaenyra gave her maidenhead to other man (either daemon or breakbones) he started to hate her.

[Lion of the West]

He was one of many bad men in service to a good cause. The development of his character is certainly very interesting and judging from the talk he does in the Small Council session he sounds like his primary motive for being for the king is a morale panic over Rhaenyra. His reasons to turn against Rhaenyra was certainly selfish but its interesting how his selfish reasons and a fallout with the figurehead of the Blacks put him among the Greens to defend King Aegon II's claim to his father's throne.

As for the war, I think that his main flaw was not to be able to put Aemond on a leash essentially and keep Vhaegar as dragon support for Criston's army as they marched to meet the Reacher Greens. If those two armies had united the Blacks could well have been defeated.

[Paxter Redwyne]

1 hour ago, Valens said:

He slit the throat of Lord Lyman Beesbury for supporting Rhaenyra's claim. That, despite being ordered by Aegon no doubt, was a brutal act still. He also supported the crowning of that bastard Aegon and made it happen, along with Otto Hightower of course. They ignored Viserys' wishes, which was another crime.

We have no proof that Criston killed Lyman on Aegon II order. It was probably his own initiative,

Inheritance after death of Viserys was really fucked up. He ignored law what gave him throne and named his daughter as heir for no reason, and worst of all was blind to her daughter's adultery.

 

@edited Wanted to add that letting rhaenyra to marry daemon was incredibly stupid. Everyone knew his cruelty and hunger for power. It was obvious that it would end badly.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Valens said:

Very interesting and ambiguous character, dontcha think? In the beginning he is the very soul of knighthood and chivalry, being repulsed by Rhaenyra's advances at him and then, he became Aegon II's muscle. He slit the throat of Lord Lyman Beesbury for supporting Rhaenyra's claim. That, despite being ordered by Aegon no doubt, was a brutal act still. He also supported the crowning of that bastard Aegon and made it happen, along with Otto Hightower of course. They ignored Viserys' wishes, which was another crime. He also taught Aemond the Monster to sword fight and along with him led the Greens in the field. For all these reasons, one must hate him, or at least dislike him. I do anyway. I was glad when I finally read that he was killed by arrows, lol. And by Northmen as well. No matter how valiant and skilled he was at fighting, this guy obviously had something negative about him.

It is very unlikely that Criston Cole did murder Lyman Beesbury on the command of Prince Aegon. He most likely did it either on his own initiative to make a point that the debate was over and the Small Council would now do whatever Ser Otto Hightower commanded or suffer the consequences or because he was ordered to do so by Alicent and/or Otto. Perhaps there had even been a previous understanding how to deal with Small Council members staying true to the will of the late king and the vow they once swore to Rhaenyra.

I also don't think he was the very soul of knighthood and chivalry. I see Cole as the knightly version of Littlefinger. He is a man of very humble origins (the son of the steward of Blackhaven) and he uses his skills, his good looks, and his charm to rise to the very top of the food chain. As high as a knight can rise in his society.

I don't buy it for a moment that such a man would be 'as chaste as an old septa'. I'm pretty sure a man as handsome as he was had quite a lot of girls and women both before he joined the KG as well as thereafter. When he became Rhaenyra's sworn shield she was still a little girl, after all.

Perhaps he never intended to fall in love with Rhaenyra but he did, and then he presumed too much like Littlefinger did when he tried to marry Catelyn. When Rhaenyra's marriage to Laenor Velaryon was announced Cole went to her and offered her to run away with him so they could be together as husband and wife in exile - and offer Rhaenyra dismissed at once because she wanted the Iron Throne and had no intention to disappoint the expectations and trust her father had put in her. Instead she probably offered him to become her unofficial lover and the father of her children - like Harwin Strong later did become - but this was something Cole could not stomach for some reason.

I guess we have to keep in mind how, well, humiliating/unnatural it must have felt/looked for Cole to see Rhaenyra being married to a homosexual man as effeminate as Laenor Velaryon. He most likely couldn't stand the prospect of not being her husband and seeing that this guy was - who most likely did neither desire nor would ever share his bed with her.

I think this hatred of Laenor (and Rhaenyra, who is actually willing to go along with this charade) is made evident by Cole's behavior during the wedding tourney. He targets and kills Joffrey Lonmouth, Laenor's favorite, and also beats up Harwin Strong. If didn't have any strong feelings for Rhaenyra he would have done neither because he certainly wouldn't have cared about Lonmouth nor would he have had any reason to hate Harwin. He would just have been glad that he no longer had to protect the slutty princess who always tried to seduce him.

Whether Cole and Rhaenyra ever had an actual affair prior to their breakup is unknown but I guess they did. They had every opportunity and the idea that anyone would dare reject the Realm's Delight is pretty unlikely. The whole ridiculous Mushroom story about Rhaenyra taking sex lessons from Daemon to try to seduce Criston Cole isn't very plausible. Daemon wanted to deflower Rhaenyra to be able to marry her as soiled goods if Viserys would annul his marriage to Rhea Royce - he had no good motivation to only help Rhaenyra to seduce Criston Cole. In addition Rhaenyra actually appears less 'slut-like' in Mushroom's story because she doesn't have any intercourse at all (neither with Daemon - who only teaches her ways to seduce a man - nor with Cole, who rejects her).

Cole's motivations in the Dance are both selfish and low, as most of them are. He is not as worse as the Hightowers and is sort of redeemed by the fact that he is one of the few competent Greens. His military tactics are sound, and he seems to be a capable general.

But then, he sucks as a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard when he actually risks the life of his own king to slay an enemy dragonrider, not to mention that the whole plot of dispatching Arryk Cargyll to murder either Rhaenyra or her children is possibly one of the lowest points the Kingsguard ever reached. That was just disgusting to read.

How much he was manipulated by Alicent in all that is also unclear as of yet. One really wonders whether the man was on board with any Hightower schemes from the start or whether Alicent had to carefully manipulate him before she could completely recruit him to her cause. It might have been a work in process considering that we have actually no idea when exactly the Greens decided they would usurp the throne upon the death of Viserys I. There might have been times when they would not have dared such a move, or there might have been times in which Alicent and Otto both thought there could be a peaceful solution to all of that (although I really doubt they were all that eager to look for such).

[Valens]

4 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

He  certainly is a bad person, but i do not consider him as bad. Something happened between Rhaenyra and Criston what made him her staunchest enemy. 

Personally i think that they were both in love but ater rhaenyra gave her maidenhead to other man (either daemon or breakbones) he started to hate her.

Yeah, I would say the same. It was probably an act of jealousy and it made him so furiously beat both Breakbones and that guy Laenor was in love with...Joffrey Lyman or something? The poor guy died six days later. But it was a major mistake to make an enemy of him on Rhaenyra's behalf. Still, she was too young to know better. Had he joined the Blacks, the war would have been over sooner, for them.

[Paxter Redwyne]

1 hour ago, Valens said:

Yeah, I would say the same. It was probably an act of jealousy and it made him so furiously beat both Breakbones and that guy Laenor was in love with...Joffrey Lyman or something? The poor guy died six days later. But it was a major mistake to make an enemy of him on Rhaenyra's behalf. Still, she was too young to know better. Had he joined the Blacks, the war would have been over sooner, for them.

War could go any way if things would go different.

And about rest: By beating to death joffrey criston made lanor his enemy, but well, he wasn't alive for long so in the end it do not matter. Also Rhaenyra first made Criston Cole enemy. Before that mysterious incident she was her sworn shield. But then she spurned him (probably), fucked with breakbones and things went as they went.

[Paxter Redwyne]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

But then, he sucks as a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard when he actually risks the life of his own king to slay an enemy dragonrider, not to mention that the whole plot of dispatching Arryk Cargyll to murder either Rhaenyra or her children is possibly one of the lowest points the Kingsguard ever reached. That was just disgusting to read.

We can't know for what ser Arryk was sent to Dragonstone. He could be sent to murder Rhaenyra. Personally i only found his mission pathetic. After reading about deaths of both Jaehaerys and Maelor hardly anything could move me in Dance of Dragons. Manhunt for two years old child ordered by rhaenyra beats everything.

[Lord Varys]

26 minutes ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

We can't know for what ser Arryk was sent to Dragonstone. He could be sent to murder Rhaenyra. Personally i only found his mission pathetic. After reading about deaths of both Jaehaerys and Maelor hardly anything could move me in Dance of Dragons. Manhunt for two years old child ordered by rhaenyra beats everything.

We know that Ser Arryk was sent to kill either Rhaenyra or her children. And we don't really know when this took place, either. Could have been a reaction to Blood and Cheese, but it could actually have preceded it.

I grant you that this isn't such a worse crime in comparison to many of the others but I was referring to the fact that a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard was sending another Kingsguard with murdering either his rightful Queen (at least in the eyes of his late king) or her children. And that is really disgusting if you think about what the Kingsguard is supposed to stand for.

There is no hint that Rhaenyra had any direct influence on the manner Prince Maelor died. That was a mad mob and she wasn't there. But she most certainly would have set a decent price on his head.

[The Fresh PtwP]

I'm going to have to disagree with Jaime and say this guy is just the worst. He goes against the King who raised him to the KGs wishes because he wanted to break his vows but got rejected...

He pulls a Lannisters and goes overboard green seemingly to show he definitely isn't for Rhaenyra (poor Beesbury, BBones, and Joffery)

Then allows Aemond to burn the Riverlands instead of meeting up with the Reach lords...which leads to the Butcher's Ball. (Which is THE coolest name for a battle ever.)

So yeah, good fighter, terrible everything else.

Btw (if I could get two POVs from the original Dance it would be the Butcher's Ball and the Fishfeed)

 

[AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I grant you that this isn't such a worse crime in comparison to many of the others but I was referring to the fact that a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard was sending another Kingsguard with murdering either his rightful Queen (at least in the eyes of his late king) or her children. And that is really disgusting if you think about what the Kingsguard is supposed to stand for.

I forget who's POV said this at the moment  (most likely Jaime, maybe Bariston). But a KGs vows extend only to the king. It is then up to the king to decide if they would like to protect their immediate family.

If your point is that it is despicable to murder a child I would agree. But on par with a other despicable things we have seen KG do or let happen

[Paxter Redwyne]

8 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

We know that Ser Arryk was sent to kill either Rhaenyra or her children. And we don't really know when this took place, either. Could have been a reaction to Blood and Cheese, but it could actually have preceded it.

I grant you that this isn't such a worse crime in comparison to many of the others but I was referring to the fact that a Lord Commander of the Kingsguard was sending another Kingsguard with murdering either his rightful Queen (at least in the eyes of his late king) or her children. And that is really disgusting if you think about what the Kingsguard is supposed to stand for.

There is no hint that Rhaenyra had any direct influence on the manner Prince Maelor died. That was a mad mob and she wasn't there. But she most certainly would have set a decent price on his head.

Blood and Cheese happened very early in war, just after Lucerys has died, so it probably was reaction for killing jaehaerys.

As i said, ser Arryk mission was pathetic, but in eyes of his current king ( Aegon II ) he was trying to avenge murder of royal prince by killing either pretender or pretender's son. 

Rhaenyra obviously wasn't in Bitterbridge while Maelor died but as you wrote she certainly put reward for his head what itself is horrible, considering that he was only 2 years old child. 

[apovsic]

15 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't buy it for a moment that such a man would be 'as chaste as an old septa'. I'm pretty sure a man as handsome as he was had quite a lot of girls and women both before he joined the KG as well as thereafter.

Your posts always sound very reasonable, but this is just ridiculous. Just because someone is handsome doesn't automatically mean he has a lot of girls. And I really don't see any evidence of your claim, other than your huge jump in logic, so until then I'll assume that he was really as chaste as it was said.

However don't get me wrong that Cole was a nice guy. He wasn't. Just don't assume that he was "the worst" on every aspect of his personality if he was "the worst" on some aspects. Why can't chaste man be garbage?  

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I think the accounts we have of the Dance are very biased.  And that this is evident in the main series, as we know they are forming their own opinions based upon the same accounts. Ser Cristen Cole is mentioned in what mostly seems respected and highly regarded memory. But when you read TP&TQ and TWOIAF with the objective eye of an outsider, who knows and understands about bias. He was a bit of a scumbag. I agree with Lord Varys about what was most likely the nature of his relationship with Rhaenyra. He seems to have been driven by ego, homophobia, jealousy and  misogyny. Which when we take into account the culture of Westeros is totally understandable and to be expected. 

It is clear to the reader that history has been manipulated to support the cutting of women from the Targaryen line of succession. It seems obvious that the Valyrians had a more equal society, where women of the right rank at least. Held power, and this makes perfect sense when you take the fact that they were frequently dragon riders. A woman on a dragon is as powerful as a man on a dragon. 

Visenya & Rhaenys were Queens, and basically Visenya did most of the ruling. Allysanne was Roth at her husband for being sexist and left him twice, Viserys thought giving the throne to Rhaenyra totally acceptable. And several Targaryen Princesses behaved with far more self assertion, and agency that Andal culture allows for. But with the loss of the Dragons, the dominant Andal culture basically scapegoated the fact Rhaenyra was a woman as a reason for the Dance. Using the tragedy of the sheer scale of the civil war & the loss of the additional Power Dragons gave women to quash these notions of equality that these Valyrians had. One has to wonder had she (Rhaenyra) been a man, and the only child of Visery's first marriage, and the Hightowers still made the power grab which they did after Visery's death. How differently the war would be presented and how, lets call the male version of her Rhaenyar shall we, would be remembered in the annals of Westeros? 

Cristen -the King maker- Cole was but a spurned lover, jealous, his ego wounded, and bitter at having been set aside for the crown. So he sought to rob her of it. 

[Danelle]

18 hours ago, OuttaOldtown said:

I think its interesting that Jamie makes mention of him to Loras, in many ways he was the Jamie of his era. I felt myself siding with the Blacks & feel that to some degree that Archmaester Gyldayn was pro-Green..

I also believe that he is a polarising character and there are many similarities with Jaime (the most prominent is his proposal to abandon everything and leave for Essos, which Rhaenyra refused because she wanted the power of the crown. Likewise, when Jaime suggested revealing their affair to the world, Cersei refused because she knew that it would weaken their claim to the throne).

The way the novellas are written makes it very difficult to separate fact from rumour, truth from lies.

For example we are given two contradictory accounts of the end of his relationship with Rhaenyra:

1. He proposed escaping to Essos
2. Rhaenyra tried to seduce him but he refused

The fact is that after their encounter, Criston became a staunch supporter of Queen Alicent.

Personally I believe that the truth is somewhere in between.

Rhaenyra and Criston had an affair. Initially she was a romantic and he was pragmatic. Their entirely opposing viewpoints at first enhanced their feelings towards each other. Rhaenyra really needed someone to protect her and he needed to further establish his position in the court. Rhaenyra was a beautiful, spoiled young girl, who was also lonely. Criston was a handsome young man, probably ambitious as well.

 

I think that even if in the beginning Criston pretended to love Rhaenyra, in order to gain influence through her, he gradually fell in love with the princess and had an affair.

The places reversed and he became the romantic whereas Rhaenyra was the pramatic who refused his offer to flee and abandon everyone and everything.

 

Criston's support of Alicent was a result of his hurt pride after Rhaenyra rejected him but also his determination to gain more power, this time without Rhaenyra's aid.

 

For me the phrase which best describes Criston and his stance towards the Targaryens is Alicent's observation:

 

Quote

Yet Princess Rhaenyra continued to sit at the foot of the Iron Throne when her father held court, and His Grace began bringing her to meetings of the small council as well. Though many lords and knights sought her favor, the princess had eyes only for Ser Criston Cole, her gallant young sworn shield. “Ser Criston protects the princess from her enemies, but who protects the princess from Ser Criston?” Queen Alicent asked one day at court.

This reminds me of "Who watches the Watchmen?",  basically a phrase which summarises the problems which rise when someone gains power, how is this person expected to be controlled? Especially if that person is expected to control others.

In a way, this question can also be applied to all the men who served as Kingsguard Knights, including Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, Arys Oakheart and of course, Jaime Lannister. 

 

 

[Valens]

Well, if Aegon didn't order the murder of that guy on the council, then it makes him an even worse villain. He is an opportunist who took advantage of his popularity and I think something about Rhaenyra didn't suit him, he saw that she was too headstrong for him to manipulate her, so he turned against her. What a scoundrel! Unfortunately, he was a scoundrel who fought like a demon but in the end that wasn't enough, because karma comes to everyone. And his karma punishment was to be slain by a bunch of ragged Northmen, hehe. Though I have read he was killed by archers from that castle, forget which one, on this website it says it was the Winter Wolves who killed him. He called out several men to a duel but they said "no way, lets just kill him the easy way and be done with it!".

[Lord Varys]

7 hours ago, AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy said:

I forget who's POV said this at the moment  (most likely Jaime, maybe Bariston). But a KGs vows extend only to the king. It is then up to the king to decide if they would like to protect their immediate family.

If your point is that it is despicable to murder a child I would agree. But on par with a other despicable things we have seen KG do or let happen

The Kingsguard vows are irrelevant to this question since we from Barristan that it is up to the king to extend KG protection to whoever he wishes (his queen, his children, his widowed mother, his uncles, aunts, and cousins, his other kin, his bastards, etc.). We know that Viserys I had extended KG protection to Princess Rhaenyra and her children because there were two (and eventually three) Kingsguard who were named by Viserys I on Dragonstone with her. 

Criston Cole knew all that and he didn't care. He wanted to make a man who had sworn to defend the king and his blood into murdering members of the royal family. That is just sick. And those four KG (including Cole) really seemed to betray their own late king. It was Viserys I who gave them their white cloaks and they must have been very aware of the fact whom the king wished to succeed to the throne. While you can make arguments that other people at court might have more freedom of thought in regards to the king's wishes and decrees (although that's actually nonsensical considering that everyone at court - including the Hightowers - would have been expected to honor the succession as it was set by Viserys I) we should all be in agreement that it is not up to the Kingsguard to second-guess, ignore, or act against the express wishes of the king.

In that sense Criston Cole and his three brethren are actually among the worst Kingsguard in history regardless whether they later proved to be loyal to Aegon II and his children.

4 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Blood and Cheese happened very early in war, just after Lucerys has died, so it probably was reaction for killing jaehaerys.

As i said, ser Arryk mission was pathetic, but in eyes of his current king ( Aegon II ) he was trying to avenge murder of royal prince by killing either pretender or pretender's son. 

Rhaenyra obviously wasn't in Bitterbridge while Maelor died but as you wrote she certainly put reward for his head what itself is horrible, considering that he was only 2 years old child. 

That is possible but we don't know that yet. It would have taken time to arrange Blood and Cheese, after all, and perhaps Cole reacted first and tried to remove Rhaenyra and all her children before her cause could gain momentum in the wake of the murder of Prince Lucerys. At that point it would have been clear that war was inevitable, and somehow I think Arryk's infiltration of Dragonstone must have occurred before the Velaryon fleet had begun to blockade KL and Blackwater Bay. The idea that a guy looking like Erryk Cargyll could have sneaked through such a blockade via ship is not very likely.

I'm pretty sure Rhaenyra did not put a price on Maelor's head stipulating that she wanted him 'dead or alive'. The mob ripped him to pieces because they were fighting for their price. That is horrible, of course, but it seems nobody actually wanted to kill him. Rhaenyra was especially lenient with her family as her treatment of both Alicent and Helaena confirms. She could have had the heads of both of them, after all.

3 hours ago, apovsic said:

Your posts always sound very reasonable, but this is just ridiculous. Just because someone is handsome doesn't automatically mean he has a lot of girls. And I really don't see any evidence of your claim, other than your huge jump in logic, so until then I'll assume that he was really as chaste as it was said.

However don't get me wrong that Cole was a nice guy. He wasn't. Just don't assume that he was "the worst" on every aspect of his personality if he was "the worst" on some aspects. Why can't chaste man be garbage?  

Well, you'd base this assumption on the questionable source of Mushroom. Or do you also believe he had such a big member and played a crucial role in the sex education of Rhaenyra? I don't think so.

Cole clearly was in love with Rhaenyra - that much is confirmed by the fact how he treated both Joffrey Lonmouth and Harwin Strong at the wedding tourney. Anyone who was actually 'as chaste as an old septa' would have thanked the Seven that he was finally rid of that wanton slut he had to protect for the last decade or so. He would not have tried to punish her or Laenor by targeting their favorites in the tourney.

In addition, Cole wasn't a KG from birth. He only became a member of the KG in 105 AC at the age of twenty-three. Are you really believing that a man with his looks and skills didn't have affairs in his youth just because Mushroom (who would only have met him after he came to court) claims that?

@The Weirwoods Eyes

I think we should see the anti-Rhaenyra view of contemporary Westeros as a gradual process. The very fact that half of Westeros (or more, actually) supported Rhaenyra's claim at one time or another is a pretty strong testament to the fact that many people in the Realm still stood by and supported their late king's decision to name her the heir - in spite of the power the Hightower-led Greens acquired late in Viserys' reign.

In addition there certainly is the fact to consider that Rhaenyra had become very unpopular in the city by the time she had to flee KL didn't help her memory to live on (like the memory of the Young Dragon certainly did).

And in general history would of course lay the blame at the feet of the woman trying to change the order of things despite the fact that she had been named and acknowledged as Viserys' successor by the entire Realm. That is misogyny at its finest. But this doesn't mean Aegon II and his ilk were popular. They weren't, in fact. Otto Hightower is counted among the worst Hands in the history of the Seven Kingdoms, Alicent was imprisoned for life after the murder of Aegon II, and the king himself is described as grasping by Grand Maester Kaeth.

Not to mention that our own view on Aegon II's reign pretty much shows what kind of man he was, and how he completely sucked at being king during the brief time he actually ruled (which wasn't all that long). The man we see at the end of TPatQ seems to have learned some lessons, but I assume he has actually become more cruel and vengeful instead of having acquired the experience to actually be a wise and good king. And one actually wonders who sat longer on the Iron Throne - Rhaenyra of Aegon II. Aegon II might only have spent a few weeks there after his coronation and his early injuries, and he then only returned to KL in the last month of 130 AC and sat there until he was killed in the third month.

And I'm not sure if Cole is really a positive figure in Westerosi history. He was a great knight and all, and is revered for that, but the Kingmaker name actually is an insult, not praise. People knew he betrayed his late king by crowning Aegon II, and that makes him actually the prototypical example for a bad Kingsguard. If you want to be a Kingsguard try not be like Criston Cole. That goes for both having an affair with a royal princess and betraying your own king.

@Danelle

I've a few problems with your interpretation of the relationship between Rhaenyra and Cole. Keep in mind that the girl seems to have been six when Cole was made her sworn shield (in 103 AC) and eight when he was made a member of the KG (in 105 AC). Cole was twenty-one in 103 AC, and twenty-three in 105 AC.

This is a pretty big age gap, and unless we assume Cole was somehow into young girls with silver-gold hair there is little chance he actually was romantically attracted to Rhaenyra until she became a teenager. But he most likely enjoyed the fact that she took a childish fancy to him and eventually began to respond to all that. The fact that Rhaenyra was the greatest price a man could hope for at this time would also have fueled his ambition. Having the favor and ear of the future queen was a means to gain power.

If Cole actually ended up suggesting to Rhaenyra to run away with her then there was a side in him that actually loved the girl as a person, not just as a price (Harwin Strong apparently had no problem with the fact that he was just the secret lover). And it must have hurt him very much that she rejected that offer. On the other hand, if Rhaenyra actually had an affair with Daemon earlier on then there is little reason to assume that she didn't also have a secret affair with Criston Cole.

It is really difficult to say. His later career suggest that he became a more shadier character later on. His closeness to Alicent could indicate that they had an affair later in life, and/or that he was even complicit in the murder of Viserys I if we assume the man was poisoned. His convenient death at an opportune moment for the Greens is a very lucky coincidence indeed. And Gyldayn having Alicent call upon Ser Criston Cole at once after she learns about Viserys' death strongly suggests that these two were pretty close at that point.

[apovsic]

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, you'd base this assumption on the questionable source of Mushroom. Or do you also believe he had such a big member and played a crucial role in the sex education of Rhaenyra? I don't think so.

Cole clearly was in love with Rhaenyra - that much is confirmed by the fact how he treated both Joffrey Lonmouth and Harwin Strong at the wedding tourney. Anyone who was actually 'as chaste as an old septa' would have thanked the Seven that he was finally rid of that wanton slut he had to protect for the last decade or so. He would not have tried to punish her or Laenor by targeting their favorites in the tourney.

In addition, Cole wasn't a KG from birth. He only became a member of the KG in 105 AC at the age of twenty-three. Are you really believing that a man with his looks and skills didn't have affairs in his youth just because Mushroom (who would only have met him after he came to court) claims that?

Nice strawman there. Sure, because I think that one Mushroom claim is more reasonable than your claim, based on thin air, I must surely belive ALL the claims by Mushroom, eh?

Secondly, I found it funny that you think that if Cole was in love with Rhaenyra (which I didn't dispute) means that he ha a lot of girls? Uh? Also being chaste doesn't mean one is a virgin, just to be faithful to one person (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not native English speaker).

What I'm saying is that it is quite possible that he was a chaste type of person, even thought he was handsome and skilled. You know, this two don't exclude each other. And there is only source of Cole's chaste - Mushroom, so I will take his word over your claim which derives from assumption that if someone has one trait it MUST have another. Or at least don't pretend to be pure fact.