Robert's whoring Vs. Rhaegar's cheating

[Leonardo]

I love the irony of Lyanna saying Robert wouldn't be faithful and would go whoring(along with a fair bit of fan base) and then, in many theories, being fine with Rhaegar cheating on his wife and the mother of his children. Cheating is one bad thing, falling in love with someone else is quite another.

 

Why does Rhaegar so often get a pass but Robert doesn't?

[The Wolves]

Maybe because we've seen the results of Robert's whoring like his multiple bastards who he doesn't give a fuck about. 

Though Rhaegar was wrong also creating a very dangerous situation. 

I think Rhaegar gets a lot of slack from fans because we still don't know his whole story. Even though he made mistakes he's still this impressive character that very little bad things are said of him. With Robert we got probably his whole story and can judge him from that holding him to a different standard than Rhaegar. 

[WSmith84]

Well, I suppose the love aspect might make it better to some. Plus, it was just one woman as opposed to dozens. Rhaegar's was far more politically damaging than Robert's affairs, however.

Lyanna's... change in position on extramarital affairs has an unknown cause; perhaps we'll find out more that better explains this. I'd suggest that the noble Crown Prince sweeping her up might be enough for her to forsake her betrothal, but a sick wife and tiny children... that makes the thing pretty messy, morally speaking. I've heard the theory that Elia was AOK with the situation (and frankly it makes me want to vomit) which I suppose could explain it, if Rhaegar swore to only be with Lyanna from then on. I suspect the truth is that Lyanna fell for this man, he fell for her, and the fact he had a wife and kids made the whole thing... tragic? Messy? Unpleasant? Painful? Maybe all of them.

[Leonardo]

Agreed. I suppose Robert's drinking and not being mindful has had roughly the same political ramifications, but I just thought it a bit hypocritical of Lyanna. She probably didn't feel much towards Robert which I totally understand, I just think using the justification of his whoring feels wrong when she runs off with our silver prince

[Nami]

Well, Robert ended up with a lot bastards which he neglected and even the way he behaved while fighting the war "for Lyanna" makes you really wonder the nature of the feelings he had for this woman at all. I think he was obsessed with her, like something that was denied to him and he never got over that.

We don't really know what happened between Rhaegar and Lyanna so how their relationship came to be or their feelings are just assumption.

[WSmith84]

4 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Agreed. I suppose Robert's drinking and not being mindful has had roughly the same political ramifications, but I just thought it a bit hypocritical of Lyanna. She probably didn't feel much towards Robert which I totally understand, I just think using the justification of his whoring feels wrong when she runs off with our silver prince

 

To be fair, in real life there are many people who consider cheating a bad thing but find themselves doing it, either cheating on their partners or cheating with someone else's. It's very human. So Lyanna considering cheating a bad thing but ending up committing it herself isn't completely out of character.

[The Wolves]

7 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

 

To be fair, in real life there are many people who consider cheating a bad thing but find themselves doing it, either cheating on their partners or cheating with someone else's. It's very human. So Lyanna considering cheating a bad thing but ending up committing it herself isn't completely out of character.

Can we call what Lyanna did cheating tho?  

[John Doe]

1 hour ago, The Wolves said:

Maybe because we've seen the results of Robert's whoring like his multiple bastards who he doesn't give a fuck about. 

Bastards aren't considered a big deal in their society, a wife and two kids are though. So what Rhaegar did was worse. And Rhaegar directly caused a civil war while the war after Robert's death was caused pretty much by factors outside of his influence. 

[Tianzi]

Well, the title of this topic is a little misleading. Robert was whoring AND cheating.

[WSmith84]

18 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

Can we call what Lyanna did cheating tho?  

OK, we'll call it 'being the other woman.' It's being a part of an affair, either way.

[Leonardo]

25 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

Well, the title of this topic is a little misleading. Robert was whoring AND cheating.

? When did he cheat, He wasn't married to anyone until Cersei and that was after Lyanna died

 

I don't really consider being betrothed to be dating, it's certainly not equatedbas such in the series.

[Tianzi]

1 minute ago, Leonardo said:

? When did he cheat, He wasn't married to anyone until Cersei and that was after Lyanna died

Well, I mean when he was married, you didn't specify on whom. And Lyanna's prediction about him was concerning their future marriage, ie. that he would still whoring as her husband. In other words, cheating.

In Rhaegar's case it's mostly about abandoning his wife and kids (and we know how it turned out for them), but then again, a war broke, we don't know details, he might have been planning to reunite with them after some time (possibly with Lya as his mistress/second wife).

[Leonardo]

1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

Well, I mean when he was married, you didn't specify on whom. And Lyanna's prediction about him was concerning their future marriage, ie. that he would still whoring as her husband. In other words, cheating.

A very good point. I forgot her comment was geared toward the future somewhat

[Lady bonehead]

Rhaegar thought because of some prophecy that he had to have a third child, but Elia couldn't survive another childbirth.  That provides the justification in his mind for having a mistress, but why Lyanna?  Did they fall in love, or did he somehow become convinced that she was destined to be the mother of the promised child, and then convince her also?  In that case running away with him might actually have seemed a noble thing to do.

[Lost Time]

I kinda wish to see in some alternate reality story where Robert and Lyanna get married. Would he continue to  whore around on her? A part of me thinks that it might be possible that Robert would have "been tamed" and treated Lyanna properly after they started living together, especially if she voiced her displeasure with his frat boy antics. With Cersei, who Robert clearly hated, he obviously didn't give a damn about it and the bottle and other women was how he dealt with his demons. If it were Lyanna though, no way does he treat her the same way he treated Cersei throughout that doomed marriage.

Not to mention Lyanna being his best friend's sister. Robert wasn't some uncaring brute of a monster, even he would have had to have known that treating Lyanna disrespectfully would piss Ned and the Starks off to the point of no return.

[redtree]

16 hours ago, John Doe said:

Bastards aren't considered a big deal in their society, a wife and two kids are though. So what Rhaegar did was worse. And Rhaegar directly caused a civil war while the war after Robert's death was caused pretty much by factors outside of his influence. 

It's down to this really, and i agree with you so much. People can say that Rhaegar's action is because of love (insert throw up emoticon here), but what about his love, if there any, for his first son ? The one he left very early for Lyanna, a lady who came from a more powerful family with powerful allies. And wasn't Elia was in critical condition ? That just made it even colder of him

Let's face it, while poligamy was accepted (while the dragons existed anyway), it has never ever ended well. Even Viserys 1's 2 marriages in separate times eventually ended up with crisis of succesion that led to massive bloodshed.  If he had managed to win the war, he'd be setting DoD 2 but he'd probably be blind because of his love for Lyanna and refused to see the possible outcome for baby Aegon. Best case scenario, he'd led his family to a highly dysfunctional situation

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

7 hours ago, Lost Time said:

I kinda wish to see in some alternate reality story where Robert and Lyanna get married. Would he continue to  whore around on her? A part of me thinks that it might be possible that Robert would have "been tamed" and treated Lyanna properly after they started living together, especially if she voiced her displeasure with his frat boy antics. With Cersei, who Robert clearly hated, he obviously didn't give a damn about it and the bottle and other women was how he dealt with his demons. If it were Lyanna though, no way does he treat her the same way he treated Cersei throughout that doomed marriage.

Not to mention Lyanna being his best friend's sister. Robert wasn't some uncaring brute of a monster, even he would have had to have known that treating Lyanna disrespectfully would piss Ned and the Starks off to the point of no return.

I think he still would have whored around somewhat. Probably not as much  or  as in her face as he did with Cersei though.

[Special Snowflake]

At one side Robert gets a pass because Cersei is a hateful woman who did cheat on him as much he cheated of her. In the end I don't think he would remain faithful to Lyanna. He certainly thinks he loved her (or at least his idealised version of her), and I think he would have tried to make it work (he even wanted to include Cersei in his hunting trips), if not only for Ned (for me that was only true bromance of his life, Lyanna didn't really loved him). Lyanna was strong willed and she wouldn't take crap. She wouldn't have been the obedient wife he might have wanted. And somehow I imagine their mariage life full of fights and disagreements. So the first chance he would not be happy, or denied of something he  would turn to self medication in alcohol and whoring. But at least he would try to keep it under wraps, not to disrespect her and to anger Ned.

Rhaegar, I actually don't know what to think of him. We don't have enough information, just speculation. Even if he did go to fulfill some prophecy that doest get him "get out of the jail free" card for what he did to his family. If you have R+L love story or what not, it is offten assumed than it's a ok to leave Ellia. Well it isn't. If he was so smart he really should have been a better planer. His actions led to a rebellion and all the crap that followed. Maybe he was just a good person with good intentions making some catastrophic mistakes.

When I think of Ellia's tragic fate I want to blame her stupid husband. In any case she got a lot worse end of the stick than Cersei when we talk about the consequences of their husband's cheating. So maybe Rhaegar was a better person than Robert, but Robert's whoring had less of a consequence to the bigger picture. 

Ultimatley I think that both are (bad in their own way) equally bad. We can find reasons to simpatise or empatise with both, but cheating is cheating. You do that knowing that you will hurt other people. 

[Special Snowflake]

At one side Robert gets a pass because Cersei is a hateful woman who did cheat on him as much he cheated of her. In the end I don't think he would remain faithful to Lyanna. He certainly thinks he loved her (or at least his idealised version of her), and I think he would have tried to make it work (he even wanted to include Cersei in his hunting trips), if not only for Ned (for me that was only true bromance of his life, Lyanna didn't really loved him). Lyanna was strong willed and she wouldn't take crap. She wouldn't have been the obedient wife he might have wanted. And somehow I imagine their mariage life full of fights and disagreements. So the first chance he would not be happy, or denied of something he  would turn to self medication in alcohol and whoring. But at least he would try to keep it under wraps, not to disrespect her and to anger Ned.

Rhaegar, I actually don't know what to think of him. We don't have enough information, just speculation. Even if he did go to fulfill some prophecy that doest get him "get out of the jail free" card for what he did to his family. If you have R+L love story or what not, it is offten assumed than it's a ok to leave Ellia. Well it isn't. If he was so smart he really should have been a better planer. His actions led to a rebellion and all the crap that followed. Maybe he was just a good person with good intentions making some catastrophic mistakes.

When I think of Ellia's tragic fate I want to blame her stupid husband. In any case she got a lot worse end of the stick than Cersei when we talk about the consequences of their husband's cheating. So maybe Rhaegar was a better person than Robert, but Robert's whoring had less of a consequence to the bigger picture. 

Ultimatley I think that both are (bad in their own way) equally bad. We can find reasons to simpatise or empatise with both, but cheating is cheating. You do that knowing that you will hurt other people. 

[Light a wight tonight]

Within the context of the story everybody knew that Robert was fooling around with whoever, whenever, but nobody seemed to attach any significance to it. Cersei was certainly happy that he was doing the do with someone else and not her. It's the readership that gets all moralistic about it.

As to Good King Bob versus the Rhae-Man, one's actions led to war, and we know which that was, don't we?