[Spoilers]Has Jaime become comedic relief?

[BlueNightzx]

just saw the last episode
they botched the black fish/jaime dialogue
its official, the character is ruined.

[Tianzi]

The dialogue was recognizable, but somehow lacked wit. Despite the RL scenes having definite resemblance to their book counterparts, Jaime is just... not entertaining.

 

[BlueNightzx]

39 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

The dialogue was recognizable, but somehow lacked wit. Despite the RL scenes having definite resemblance to their book counterparts, Jaime is just... not entertaining.

 

yes, but to me they failed in establishing 4 things

-jaime's admiration to the blackfish
-blackfish stabing his honor, first by throwing aerys in his face, then by appointing his failure to deliver cat daughters
-jaime's anger and calling him to a fight
-blackfish dissing him and calling him a cripple

and thats the point, jaime has neither honor, nor his fighting skills, his whole identity is shattered, blackfish gives some hard truths in his face, and shatter the illusions that he was having on his way to riverrun that he could be respected "goldenhand the just", dialogue without purpose is empty, meaningless,

The blackfish, one of the men that he admires, calling him a cripple and calling him on his lack of honor is a heavy blow for jaime, this, and her aunt genna dialogue compels him to the "baby delivering by trebuchet"

jaime to me now in the shows seems like an comedic character, he should have a serious, bitter tone and demeanor by now, he don't slaps the frey man to look "badass" and giggle with his buddy bronn, he slaps him because he is honestly tired of bullshit,

[Dofs]

8 hours ago, Chickren said:

Assuming you mean the grief kind of denial, the kind where you know something has happened but are having trouble accepting it, then yes, I agree. 

Regardless, the show has not been faithful to the books in delaying Jaime's knowledge that Cersei is sleeping with other men besides her husband and himself.

He was in actual denial, hence he decided to completely break up with her only after Darry. It's just before Darry Cersei cheating on Jaime perfectly fit with her overall behaviour at that point. Jaime saw that and it was tormenting him but he only accepted that it had happened after Lancel's confession.

Before that, Cersei angered Jaime for many reasons and not because of Tyrion's words. The show depiction of Jaime being completely fine with Cersei's actions is inaccurate regardless of Tyrion's words about Moonboy. 

[Chickren]

2 hours ago, Dofs said:

He was in actual denial, hence he decided to completely break up with her only after Darry. It's just before Darry Cersei cheating on Jaime perfectly fit with her overall behaviour at that point. Jaime saw that and it was tormenting him but he only accepted that it had happened after Lancel's confession.

What you're describing is the grief kind of denial. Knowing something happened, but having trouble accepting it.

Kind of like when the police officer at your door tells you someone you love died and your first response is: "That can't be."

But I do agree that even before the Tyrion confession, Jaime and Cersei were at odds. He would have disapproved of her actions if he knew or not.

[Ruhail]

10 minutes ago, Chickren said:

What you're describing is the grief kind of denial. Knowing something happened, but having trouble accepting it.

Kind of like when the police officer at your door tells you someone you love died and your first response is: "That can't be."

But I do agree that even before the Tyrion confession, Jaime and Cersei were at odds. He would have disapproved of her actions if he knew or not.

Its all a big F'you to Jaime in service of Cersei (again)

[Étoile du Soir]

She said to him in the White Sword Tower, you're a changed man now, what has happened. So note the author spells it out there, there's fear in Cersei's eyes. Then, of course, he sends her away and gives Brienne Oathkeeper. I think this must be thrice now that Jaime has picked Brienne over Cersei, explicitly or implicitly (GRRM's rule of three.)

[Dofs]

4 hours ago, Chickren said:

What you're describing is the grief kind of denial. Knowing something happened, but having trouble accepting it.

Kind of like when the police officer at your door tells you someone you love died and your first response is: "That can't be."

I can't accept this analogy. A police officer would have no reason to lie, hence in heart you would have trouble accepting, but really you would know that what the policeman said was true. In Jaime's case he believed Tyrion was lying and he believed Tyrion had a reason to lie, hence he didn't accept his words as truthful at all. So in his case I would say that Jaime did not know whether Cersei's cheatings happened but doubted that it didn't. Not that he had trouble accepting something he already knew was true.

[Valetudo]

It doesn't matter if Jaime was in denial or not. The thing is that his relationship with Cersei was already in a bad place when he gets there. There were of course Tyrion's revelations, but also all his scenes with Cersei where we see them progressively breaking up (scept scene, white sword tower scene,...). Jaime doesn't turn on Cersei only because of Darry. It's the last drop that spilled the cup.

On the other hand, Show!Jaime and Show!Cersei relationship seems stronger than ever. It's all he's been talking about. Having him do a complete 180 because some random guy will tell him about Cersei and Lancel  would be dumb. Just another shocking reversal. And lets not forget that this was the reason for the WoS, so Jaime should already have known about it if he asked anybody why Cersei was forced to do it.

[Meera of Tarth]

7 minutes ago, Valetudo said:

It doesn't matter if Jaime was in denial or not. The thing is that his relationship with Cersei was already in a bad place when he gets there. There were of course Tyrion's revelations, but also all his scenes with Cersei where we see them progressively breaking up (scept scene, white sword tower scene,...). Jaime doesn't turn on Cersei only because of Darry. It's the last drop that spilled the cup.

On the other hand, Show!Jaime and Show!Cersei relationship seems stronger than ever. It's all he's been talking about. Having him do a complete 180 because some random guy will tell him about Cersei and Lancel  would be dumb. Just another shocking reversal. And lets not forget that this was the reason for the WoS, so Jaime should already have known about it if he asked anybody why Cersei was forced to do it.

But it has to happen. They will probably do it in a different way, but it will happen and it will be shocking. But since Jaime has different personalities, we are already used to that

[Le Cygne]

Also it makes it all about Cersei's infidelity, whereas in the books, he had slowly grown apart from Cersei and grown close to Brienne.

I think it will likely happen, but not be as good a story as a result. He hasn't grown this way, it's a reaction, rather than something from within.

[Meera of Tarth]

4 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Also it makes it all about Cersei's infidelity, whereas in the books, he had slowly grown apart from Cersei and grown close to Brienne.

I think it will likely happen, but not be as good a story as a result. He hasn't grown this way, it's a reaction, rather than something from within.

Exactly. They have never thought of eachother in two seasons (except that Tarth gaze moment)

[Valetudo]

10 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

But it has to happen. They will probably do it in a different way, but it will happen and it will be shocking. But since Jaime has different personalities, we are already used to that

I'm not saying that it won't happen, I'm just saying that it's dumb and follows a logic of cheap shocking moments.

I was also responding to people that believe that book Jaime only broke up with Cersei after Darry, so it's OK to have show Jaime doing it roughly at the same time, even if the two characters have nothing in common at that point.

[LadySoftheart]

18 hours ago, Chickren said:

Assuming you mean the grief kind of denial, the kind where you know something has happened but are having trouble accepting it, then yes, I agree. 

Regardless, the show has not been faithful to the books in delaying Jaime's knowledge that Cersei is sleeping with other men besides her husband and himself.

It's also not been faithful in the sense that on the show, Lancel is definitely the only one (whereas Cersei slept with Kettleblack in the books to reward him for the Margaery frame up) and it also happened so long ago that Cersei on the show was almost like a different person. You know, back when she did questionable things

Regarding the Blackfish - I really hated the Show!Version in Season 3, because he was constantly talking over Catelyn, dissing Edmure, and generally being a jerk. He was actually much more like Greatjon should have been, and much less of what Brynden Tully was in the books. The show has none of this hero-worship from Jaime, because ... who is this dude anyway? It's never been seeded that he's some kind of legend - he was just Cat's rude uncle, who was a better shot than Edmure Tully. 

And also, what exactly is he holding Riverrun for? Robb's widow isn't in the castle, there's no sense that he's protecting it for her or mirroring Courtney Penrose in protecting someone on behalf of his dead king, or anything. If anything, on the show, Edmure is his liege lord, yes? And yet, fittingly in this season of kinslaying fun, he seems ok with hanging on to the castle at the cost of Edmure's life, so ... he can be lord of Riverrun? And say he does hold out for two years - what happens then? There seem to be no other River Lords on the show except Edmure and the Freys? So what does the Blackfish think will actually occur?  If/when Edmure and the Blackfish ever meet, I'd like to have Edmure tear him a new one for that.

And why are Cersei/Tommen et al. so worried about keeping their promises to the Freys about Riverrun? They don't seem worried about keeping any other deals they've made (like, I dunno, marrying Myrcella to the heir of Dorne?) Like, all this stuff is in the show because it was in the books, but because they changed the conditions preceding all of it, it doesn't bear a close examination.

Still, it was more or less entertaining and contained some semblance of Jaime's book story so I'll be happy about that. Until next week, when the show seems set to take a giant dump all over Jaime's characterization again.

[Meera of Tarth]

11 minutes ago, Valetudo said:

I'm not saying that it won't happen, I'm just saying that it's dumb and follows a logic of cheap shocking moments.

I was also responding to people that believe that book Jaime only broke up with Cersei after Darry, so it's OK to have show Jaime doing it roughly at the same time, even if the two characters have nothing in common at that point.

Yes, I agree that will not only be dumb, but stupidly shocking. And that why it will happen. It's a pitty.

[Lord Greenhood]

The preview to the next episode again shows clear evidence that Jaime's storyline in the show is beyond redemption. Watch it and fill your souls with disappointment.

[Tyrek Lannister]

16 minutes ago, Lord Greenhood said:

The preview to the next episode again shows clear evidence that Jaime's storyline in the show is beyond redemption. Watch it and fill your souls with disappointment.

That line about the Tullys was cringeworthy.

[Meera of Tarth]

19 minutes ago, Lord Greenhood said:

The preview to the next episode again shows clear evidence that Jaime's storyline in the show is beyond redemption. Watch it and fill your souls with disappointment.

just watched it. I thought it COULDN'T BE WORSE, but it is.

She's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy............

Cersei is a whore.

I want Jaime back, not that stupid Larry. Come one. WHo is THAT????????

[Meera of Tarth]

[thehandwipes]

1 hour ago, Lord Greenhood said:

The preview to the next episode again shows clear evidence that Jaime's storyline in the show is beyond redemption. Watch it and fill your souls with disappointment.

Yeah, that's the cringe worthy cliché driven nonsense I've come to expect from D&D.

I almost had hope there for a minute that Jaime would rejoin his RL plot.  But they've simply moved their D&D created plot to a new location.  Yay, cause KL has been so exciting this year.  I hope Brienne kills him.  Then the Freys.  Then the whole army.  Then storms the gate to cut down Blackfish and his men.  She's a true knight.