Rickon and Osha Discussion

[White Harbors Wrath]

41 minutes ago, bashford427 said:

I think the fShaggydog theory has more merit than wishful thinking.  Because it's unoriginal, it would be an exact mirror to Manderly presenting a ruse in the form of Davos's head.  I would really like to think that the Umbers have not truly betrayed the Starks.  They were loyal, even in the show.  

 

Doran was alive on the show until the writers got to him. Things change on a dime and don't need more than 3 seconds of exposition on this show unfortunately.

[Darksky]

16 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

What about the lord he flayed for failure to pay his taxes?  You saying that won't get out either?  What do that lord's bannermen think happened to him, LOL? 

You don't think anyone saw Walda go into the kennel and never come out?  Or, nobody in WF is going to wonder what happened to her body and the baby?  LOL again.

 

As if anyone in Winterfell would care or dare to do anything. The castle's controlled by Ramsay. See what happens to people who cross Ramsay, they get flayed like that old lady.

15 hours ago, Boarsbane said:

If we look at things logically then there is no way the Northern lords wouldn't suspect a known monster like Ramsay to have murdered his father and his brother but this show has a pattern of making characters act out of their established character for the sake of the plot. So honestly we shouldn't look at it logically because the dummies running things aren't likely to be looking at things logically and therefore what makes sense isn't what is likely to happen.

Lords can suspect whatever the hell they want (like show Smalljon does), they can't do shit about it. Boltons/Karstarks and Umbers combined make up for the biggest force in the North. But there will be a revolt (Snowbowl), so here's your logic. Certainly makes more sense than 90% of Feast and Dance.

 

The Vale forces will help the Northern rebels. Littlefinger arranged Sansa's marriage to Ramsay to sever the Bolton's alliance with the Crown. He snitched to Cersei, omitting his integral part in the scheme, and she played right into his hands by ordering him to rally the Valemen against the Boltons. Now LF has the full backing of the Crown. Can't wait to see what he does after Snowbowl.

 

[TheLastLibrarian]

1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

More like Sansa. Jon as bastard can't inherit a thing, Sansa would be the one to be Queen in the North. In fact D&D or who said that this is the season for women and them taking control. Daeny, Cersei, Sansa, Arya.

A stark or Howland Reed will  legitimize him

[hallam]

12 hours ago, TheLastLibrarian said:

Rickon wil die, I'm sure because writers will make everything for Jon to shine this season, Rickon is an obstacle to Jon to become lord of Winterfell, so Stark or not he must die, nobody will steal the thunder of Jon  

And I'm waiting the rape of Osha by Ramsay, Last year, they made the rape of Sansa by Ramsay and they fucked up her storyline and made her a victim again and then they said they wanted to be as real as possible to the characters, so I'm wainting to D&D to stay real on this one also

The only plot that makes sense would be if Osha is supposed to knife Ramsay while they have sex. 

I very much doubt it works.

[rayarts]

A Stark has to die. They need the big shocking sacrifice this season, too, and I think Rickon is a good one for this, being both Stark (-> Robb) and a kid (-> Shireen). I don't dive into the "What would Ramsay do" debate, but rather the what would D&D find more aspiring. So we have the youngest Stark, whose whereabouts they had to clarify at some point of the series, and who - even in the books - will probably not play a huge role for the final outcome of the story. This is an opportunity to get rid of the most "useless" Stark for the plotdevelopment. And as said above, it presents another great-viewer-shocking-opportunity. I am more interested in Osha, because she is a wild-card in many ways. As she did before with Theon, she could lie and try to manipulate Ramsay with sth (e.g. pretending to be his new "special girl" for hunting humans or whatnot - Ramsay could be interested in someone really "wild") to backstab him at the right moment. Either way, I am sure she will not go down without some sort of a fight! Remember, they could have just brought Rickon in, saying they captured him and killed Osha or that she'd run away. But they brought her back, a really small role, so she will have a part to play besides just plainly dying. 

[awearyman]

40 minutes ago, rayarts said:

 I am more interested in Osha, because she is a wild-card in many ways. As she did before with Theon, she could lie and try to manipulate Ramsay with sth (e.g. pretending to be his new "special girl" for hunting humans or whatnot - Ramsay could be interested in someone really "wild") to backstab him at the right moment. Either way, I am sure she will not go down without some sort of a fight! Remember, they could have just brought Rickon in, saying they captured him and killed Osha or that she'd run away. But they brought her back, a really small role, so she will have a part to play besides just plainly dying. 

Thats a really good point, one that I had not thought about. I wonder how loyal she is to Rickon. The foreshadowing we got from season 2 was when she pledged her self to Theon after he sacked winterfell, Theon threw her aside and told her to keep dreaming. I wonder if she did that with Theon, would his recent loss be enough to make her charm work. 

[mattnj81]

I fully expect Rickon to die and the Umbers to actually be loyal to Ramsey, because D&D care more about being edgy and shocking than maintaining the characters from the books. But, it is possible it goes the other way because that would be shocking for GoT. If all hope looks lost, Rickon seems sure to die, but Jon pulls off the victory (with help from LF?), saves Rickon, etc. that would be out of the norm for this show. 

[Cas Stark]

3 minutes ago, mattnj81 said:

I fully expect Rickon to die and the Umbers to actually be loyal to Ramsey, because D&D care more about being edgy and shocking than maintaining the characters from the books. But, it is possible it goes the other way because that would be shocking for GoT. If all hope looks lost, Rickon seems sure to die, but Jon pulls off the victory (with help from LF?), saves Rickon, etc. that would be out off the norm for this show. 

rickon and osha are sure to die.

there is a slight chance the umbers will be the stupidest stark allies ever in history, because that too would be shocking twist, and the show could do it without ever explaining what the plan was to give a child to a mad dog....but i believe its more likely that umbers are just more bad guys on the show.

[Darkstar112]

more or less confirmed here what happens.

spoilers, be warned. 

https://www.reddit.com/user/DocMantisTobogan

 

 

[SamuelVimes]

Quote

On 5/12/2016 at 10:51 AM, bashford427 said:

 

Also, I think everyone assumes that there will be "a Stark in Winterfell" at the end of the series.  I always thought this would be Rickon, as he is approximately 4 years old in the book, and would kind of hide in the background until the end.  Sansa's child wouldn't be a true Stark, neither would Jon (technically, he would be a Targ), Arya and Bran seem unlikely.  Rob is dead.  That leaves Rickon.

However, Martin has said that originally, the main characters of the series were Arya, Bran, Jon, Dany, and Tyrion.   Conveniently, if ShaggyDog is dead, the only direwolves who remain are for the main characters, and obviously we have a few living dragons for the other two.

If ShaggyDog is indeed dead, I think Rickon is toast.  Especially the uneventful way the direwolf died, off screen three years after the fact.  If Rickon amounts to anything plot wise, his direwolf deserved a little better than that.  

That leaves the question, if Rickon is not going to be the "stark in winterfell", who will be?  Or will there even be one?

 

The issue of there eventually being another Stark in Winterfell is an interesting one. I've been thinking lately about my assumptions about the books and the show, and this is one assumption I have definitely been making, and that may be a mistake. (With this series more than most.) One of the interesting aspects to Jon's, Bran's, and Arya's individual journeys is that they're all being asked to be loyal to something greater than family, more important than their individual House. Whether that works out for them is a different matter, but given those journeys, I'm not sure how well they still fit into that gap in the North labeled "House Stark." I had been assuming that Rickon was basically there to be Lord Stark, because he's not had the same kind of growth (that we've seen), but if he dies, then I do think it's worth considering whether House Stark is even going to exist, in the end. I mean, it seems to me that House Stark is where Martin's sympathy lies (plus Tyrion), but that's never been a reason for him not to kill someone. Plus, you don't necessarily have to die to no longer be the Lord--Jorah Mormont being the best example there--so he doesn't even need to kill off the Starks to kill off the House. 

I'm not saying it's likely, but Rickon possibly facing death has me thinking about it, because if Martin loves one thing, it's to confound readers, and D&D are a bit less tricksy but they enjoy that as well. 

Rickon is precisely the kind of half-feral guy that Ramsay usually loves to have in his entourage. (He and his wolf were both half-feral even before they headed out to wherever he's been with Osha, so I doubt that's changed much.) Ramsay is one of the few people out there who knows that Bran's still alive, and that Rickon is still a younger son rather than the Lord of Winterfell. Lord Bran of Winterfell is outside his grasp, but the heir to that lord (since Bran in all likelihood won't have children of his own) is right there. IF Ramsay were more like Roose (and that's a big IF -- subtle strategy is not his strong suit), he'd make Rickon his BFF and spend his time turning him against Bran. I mean, Rickon's also at a perfect age (at least, the actor is...) for indoctrination, and Ramsay's awful good at brainwashing. Sadly, I think D&D aren't interested in a Ramsay who thinks ahead or is clever as well as villainous, so I'm guessing he's just going to cut a few bits off of Rickon, flay him for good measure, and be done with it. But I'd be fascinated to watch Ramsay try to draw out the willfulness and wildness that we'd seen Rickon with, in hopes of turning him into someone like Ramsay instead of someone like Ned. 

(I'm also a bit bored with Evil!Bad!Villain!Ramsay and his two-dimensionality on the show, but the actor's great, so I'd love to see him do something a bit different from his usual.) 

[lndiana Jones]

Osha is one tough wildling woman. Ramsey better be careful. Rickon looked pissed. My guess is that the Boltons maester is going to help Rickon and Osha.