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Dayne dual wielding


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Just now, The Black Adder of Dorne said:

 

I thought he looked pretty close to Sean Bean, but maybe my standards are low.

I mean I guess you're right. He looks more like Sean Bean than not. Can't really put a finger on it, but maybe his features are a bit more... I don't know? Weaselly? 

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22 minutes ago, Faint said:

Honestly, I really thought they should have had Dayne with only Dawn against three opponents (including Howland Reed and Ned) and Whent and Hightower against two opponents each. I was very disappointed in how they staged the fight. 

 

Don't forget Ned NOT wielding his 2 handed Valyrian Steel sword Ice, which is supposed to be infinitely times better then any other non-Valyrian steel weapon. Why the heck would the Lord of Winterfell not bring their best sword with them into battle?

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Just now, ShadowLiberal said:

Don't forget Ned NOT wielding his 2 handed Valyrian Steel sword Ice, which is supposed to be infinitely times better then any other non-Valyrian steel weapon. Why the heck would the Lord of Winterfell not bring their best sword with them into battle?

Maybe they actually melted the prop down to make Tywin's swords and couldn't replace it, haha. Seriously though, have you seen how cool looking the Ice prop actually is? If they had it and didn't use it that's just poor.

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Just now, ShadowLiberal said:

Don't forget Ned NOT wielding his 2 handed Valyrian Steel sword Ice, which is supposed to be infinitely times better then any other non-Valyrian steel weapon. Why the heck would the Lord of Winterfell not bring their best sword with them into battle?

Actually, I am pretty sure that Ned did not use that sword for combat and that it was purely ceremonial and for use in beheadings and such. It was much too big and cumbersome to wield in combat. There were several allusions to this if I am not mistaken. 

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1 minute ago, Faint said:

Actually, I am pretty sure that Ned did not use that sword for combat and that it was purely ceremonial and for use in beheadings and such. It was much too big and cumbersome to wield in combat. There were several allusions to this if I am not mistaken. 

Absolutely.  You want unrealistic?  Try showing Ned using that giant thing in a real sword fight.

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I didnt think the scene was that good. yes, the fighting itself was well laid out and it was flashy, but I had some issue with it.

Dual Wielding, historically, has never been a good technique, the heavy plate armor to me just made it laughable.

Arthur Dayne is the Sword of the Morning. He has one of the, if not the most famed swords in the realm and it was tossed aside for MULTISWORD! I would have much prefered to have seen Dawn, in all its glory. Ser Arthur Dayne, in all his glory cleaving people down. They missed a wonderful chance to throw back to some pre war history and they missed it for me.

I also have a large issue with the way Dayne died. If it happens like this in the book, I will have the exact same issue, but it felt cheap. Thats two deaths of glorious book figures, ended with a simple stab in the back. I am also unsure why they feel its necessary to discredit Neds honor. Is it to show that he may have lied a few times in his life?

At this point R+L=J is all but confirmed, the secret kept for years, for me is somewhat cheapened by his honor being discredited like this.

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I actually do not have much of an issue with the way Dayne died. Even in the way that it was a sneak attack.  I honestly thought it was pretty realistic considering what has been said about his skills with a blade.

I have a hard time coming up with very many plausible explanations for his losing to Howland Reed and Ned Stark, especially with the latter two being pretty pedestrian swordsman. 

The only other possibility that comes to mind is Dayne being so injured at that point that they were able to finish him off but that would have made for an inferior scene in my opinion. 

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I didn't really hate it, but I think the scene probably would have been better off without it. I mean I get that it was supposed to convey he was an amazing fighter, but I wasn't convinced. It is a bit impractical fighting with two longswords, and it showed.

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9 minutes ago, Misnthropia said:

I didnt think the scene was that good. yes, the fighting itself was well laid out and it was flashy, but I had some issue with it.

Dual Wielding, historically, has never been a good technique, the heavy plate armor to me just made it laughable.

Arthur Dayne is the Sword of the Morning. He has one of the, if not the most famed swords in the realm and it was tossed aside for MULTISWORD! I would have much prefered to have seen Dawn, in all its glory. Ser Arthur Dayne, in all his glory cleaving people down. They missed a wonderful chance to throw back to some pre war history and they missed it for me.

I also have a large issue with the way Dayne died. If it happens like this in the book, I will have the exact same issue, but it felt cheap. Thats two deaths of glorious book figures, ended with a simple stab in the back. I am also unsure why they feel its necessary to discredit Neds honor. Is it to show that he may have lied a few times in his life?

At this point R+L=J is all but confirmed, the secret kept for years, for me is somewhat cheapened by his honor being discredited like this.

How did the scene discredit Ned's honor?  He very clearly said that Dayne would have killed him but for Reed.  And this was an all-out brawl between several people--there's no rule against back stabbing.  Was Dayne supposed to let Ned pick up his sword to avoid killing an unarmed man?  It didn't look like he was going to do it.

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3 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

How did the scene discredit Ned's honor?  He very clearly said that Dayne would have killed him but for Reed.  And this was an all-out brawl between several people--there's no rule against back stabbing.  Was Dayne supposed to let Ned pick up his sword to avoid killing an unarmed man?  It didn't look like he was going to do it.

In the same very scene Bran says over and over about how Ned told stories about defeating Ser Arthur Dayne. For it to end with Reed stabbing him in the back is a pretty big discredit to Ned and his honor.

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1 hour ago, HellasLEAF said:

I really liked how it showed how stories are twisted and told by the victor.  GRR at his best there. 

I think we're going to see (or at least read) a lot of this - a lot of the POV chapters of the Starks (and Baratheons) are going to be undermined, in particular what they've been telling us these last 20 years about the Targaryans including the supposed 'Mad' King.

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I didn't like the dual wielding in the context but I thought it was cool visually. I think it would have looked much better if Dayne had fought with a really impressive Dawn and a smallish shield (not a buckler) - actually I think they all should have had shields and because they didn't seemed more like Hollywood stuntmen- except Ned, because Ice is clearly too big to use with one hand. Where was Ice?

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I honestly don't give a crap about swords. It's not like they make a difference on screen on any other way. The only sword that's possible to distinct from the others is longclaw because of the bear hilt. Other than that, all swords look exactly the same and that's how it should be. It's more than enough to have twenty jillion characters and places, nobody needs swords to memorize. They make no difference. 

I loved loved loved loved loved the dual wielding. It made perfect sense on every level. First, it separated Arthur Dayne from the others, second, it made him stand out among all the ten hundred thousand characters on the show who wield swords, third, it was spectacular. The guy is the best swordsman ever. If you want to make that a statement and actually believable, you need to do something that makes him stand out. Everybody wields swords in the show, just another guy wielding a regular sword is forgettable and mediocre. Just another guy wielding a white sword that's called dawn is just as forgettable and mediocre. Dual wielding made Dayne stand out because nobody else dual wielded on the show. It outclassed Jaime who is known as a great sword fighter, because Dayne naturally did what Jaime struggled to teach himself, wield with his left hand. 

And can we talk about his death? He was not even defeated. It was so amazing. What a beautiful gorgeous poop right on top of the great Eddard stark legend. That was the best part. 

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6 minutes ago, Apple the Great said:

I didn't like the dual wielding in the context but I thought it was cool visually. I think it would have looked much better if Dayne had fought with a really impressive Dawn and a smallish shield (not a buckler) - actually I think they all should have had shields and because they didn't seemed more like Hollywood stuntmen- except Ned, because Ice is clearly too big to use with one hand. Where was Ice?

Again, Ice is a ceremonial sword, just look at it and imagine Ned wielding it in battle. Like, the only people wielding it and not looking silly would be The Mountain or Strong Belwas.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/5/5c/Eddard_1x01.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120511213934

 

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2 hours ago, goomba said:

You could tell the Dayne stunt double was struggling not to drop a sword whenever he was blocking.

That wasn't a stunt double for Dayne's actor. Luke Roberts is trained in sword fighting for professional acting work. He was twice one of the 300 (in both the 300 movies), and also acts in the Pirates of the Carribean (2011) as a fighter too. And he acts (started in soap opera and hospital series on BBC). He's recently been getting more acting roles than pure fighting roles - one of Anne Bolleyn's accused lovers in Wolf Hall, and he played the new governor taking over Nassau in S3 of Black Sails, with Eleanor Guthrie as the repentant "pirate queen" helping him. Haven't seen that season yet (will air in september here), but read reviews and he appears a significant amount of time with an influential role, and has a sword fighing scene with pirate Vane. I know S3 of Black Sails was filmed and canned shortly before they started to call for actors in GOT for S6.

Anyhow, what you see in that fight is Luke Roberts, both doing the talking and the fighting. No double. And they specifically asked for a real good professional sword fighter for the acting call sheet of Dayne. I really dislike they went for the fanfic dual wielding (minus points for D&D and Director), but my hat's off for Luke Roberts. As a sword stunt act it is jaw-dropping, especially because they didn't just have one after the other taking a turn. And he delivered his lines convincingly to me. He had that "pity it must come to this, but it was inevitable, so no wasting words" attitude. Didn't expect Dayne to have dark hair, but hey with a straw haired Ned. It worked for me. He'll probably see that scene as a nice calling card, for anything else he might do in the future.

The actor for Ned - he had Bean's chin, so that worked... but he looked a bit too young for me, though I know Ned was 18 or so (I think) during RR. Somehow he just appeared too green behind his ears to pull of the cold, frozen, stern Northern face. He gave it his best shot, but it did not totally work for me.

Also - I know that everyone thinks the other KG is Whent because of his line and because he takes a backseat to Dayne in the convo, but the actor has apparently posted on his twitter that he's Hightower as an answer to the question which KG he was supposed to be.

So, it's actually Whent who's missing, though they have Hightower do the sword sharpening and quasi-line fits Whent mostly. His built though would probably fit Hightower better. He looked broad like a bull. But he's not old enough.

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2 minutes ago, Chett said:

Again, Ice is a ceremonial sword, just look at it and imagine Ned wielding it in battle. Like, the only people wielding it and not looking silly would be The Mountain or Strong Belwas.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/5/5c/Eddard_1x01.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120511213934

 

Not necessarily. In the late middle ages and early modern period, two handed greatswords were not unusual and could reach up to 1.8m long. Ice is clearly not 1.8m long and could definitely be used by a skilled swordsman, as we know Ned is, even if he is no Arthur Dayne.

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