lancerman Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Barrystan the Bald said: That line from the book is surely evidence of Dayne dual wielding is it not? The dual wielding makes him look proficient with both hands. Something that's not as easily to accomplish with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unhit Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I didn't like the fact that he was dualwielding too much. But I have to say that given that, I found his fighting style, especially his attacks, appropriate and suitable, ultimately making the scene/dualwielding quite convincing nonetheless (at least not a 100% stretch on suspension of disbelief): if I remember correctly (but I only watched it once so far), every Stark man slain by Dayne received a rather swift, but highly effective cut - not a full-strength blow - to vulnerable parts of their bodies, and that was well in line with the fact that Dayne was wielding two swords and couldn't possibly have used full power on blows all the time. Made me think/reminded me of the witcher Geralt of Rivia, especially how he fights (respectively the descriptions there) in Sapkowski's books: the sword was really used to cut and slice, not to hack. In that respect, too, Dayne's fighting style stood out from many other people in the show, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrystan the Bald Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 1 hour ago, lancerman said: The dual wielding makes him look proficient with both hands. Something that's not as easily to accomplish with one. I think you misunderstand my jokey comment.....he has a sword in his left hand, and another weapon in his right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhollo Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 The fight was very well choreographed, but unfortunately it looked just like that: a choreography Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnightOfJests Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I was skeptical of the fight when I first saw the dual wielding in the preview for this episode, but ultimately I think it was good. Personally I still wish we could have seen the epic "Ice" vs "Dawn" duel of ancestral great swords that was in the books, especially since we've never seen Ned use his valyrian blade in battle, but I do still think this wasn't that bad. I didn't like the end though. I never imagined that Dayne was back stabbed, and that Ned just took credit for killing a knight who was basically already dead. I always thought he and Howland Reed double teamed him or something. Ehh......... maybe there's a reason I guess, maybe that flashback is going to be in the next book or something, but whatever. Overall in terms of scenes that are different than the books, I was more disappointed than annoyed with this scene, and was still entertained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Yorick Ampersand Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Historians will tell you no one ever dual wielded with similar swords and it was Uber rare to dual wield sword+mace or other combinations especially if you're trained in martial arts. In duels they used Parrying daggers/main gauche, samurais used jutte/jitte from time to time, but notice that they had similar function to a buckler or shield because they were used primarily for defense. The fact that Arthur Dayne is dual wielding simply killed it for me. Everything about it was underwhelming and dumb. They made him stick the sword on the ground making its edge dull when he was sharpening it 3 seconds before! Dawn is a greatsword, you have to use both hands to wield it. Besides the sword is so good it gives you an advantage against any oponent even if both have the same skill level. They really failed to deliver an epic scene. I bet GRRM doesnt agree with anything that is going on this season. I feel bad for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Yorick Ampersand Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, TheKnightOfJests said: I was skeptical of the fight when I first saw the dual wielding in the preview for this episode, but ultimately I think it was good. Personally I still wish we could have seen the epic "Ice" vs "Dawn" duel of ancestral great swords that was in the books, especially since we've never seen Ned use his valyrian blade in battle, but I do still think this wasn't that bad. I didn't like the end though. I never imagined that Dayne was back stabbed, and that Ned just took credit for killing a knight who was basically already dead. I always thought he and Howland Reed double teamed him or something. Ehh......... maybe there's a reason I guess, maybe that flashback is going to be in the next book or something, but whatever. Overall in terms of scenes that are different than the books, I was more disappointed than annoyed with this scene, and was still entertained. Ice was a ceremonial sword. It wasnt used in battlle for the obvious reason that it was too big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unborn Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 3 hours ago, RedShirt47 said: I really enjoyed that fight scene. I don't care about pedantic levels of realism from a tv show. I don't care if dual wielding didn't really happen on medieval battlefields, it looked cool on tv and that is the main priority of a tv show. This. Having him dual wield made him stand out, and showed he was dangerous with both hands, something Jaime is not, Dayne was the best swordsman who ever lived and GRRM said Dayne would beat Jaime, and it would be even vs Selmy without Dawn. Having Ned stand his ground for a while against him makes him more than a decent fighter, IMO. The thing is, people were ready t shit on this scene from the get go. Some people wanted the exact same TOJ scene from the book, but Martin said this regarding the TOJ : http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Concerning_the_Tower_of_Joy Some are disappointed in how Reed helped Ned, even though that was the most logical explanation. Did you guys expected Howland to do some magic trick ? Or did you expect Dayne to die, poisoned by his enemies ? No Ice ? Well Ice is never mention in the TOJ chapter, and GRRM said Ned didn't fight with it, even though I THINK he used it in the Grejoy Rebellion. My only complaint is that there was no Whent, and even if it didn't ruin anything for me, I would like to have an explanation. Unless he is in the tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unborn Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said: I bet GRRM doesnt agree with anything that is going on this season. I feel bad for him. Bla bla bla. Even if GRRM said that he loved season 6, haters would still claimed that he have no choice to say it. Seriously, this is getting pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Yorick Ampersand Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, The Unborn said: Bla bla bla. Even if GRRM said that he loved season 6, haters would still claimed that he have no choice to say it. Seriously, this is getting pathetic. He has said many times he doesn't agree with a great many things in the show. But he gets comfort by thinking he will allways have the books, the books are his creation, the show isn't. I don't understand your reaction. What is pathetic? People saying they didn't like the TOJ scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceBorn Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 11 hours ago, Forlong the Fat said: By this logic fighting with a shield is also a horrible mistake. He has more than twice the mass to deal with and only half a grip. A shield is usually strapped to an arm, so despite the mass it has enough grip. Also, unlike the blade, it protects most of your body even if you use it only in passive manner. And lastly: the bigger the shield the smaller the sword. Now that you brought it up: if only Ned and his men used shields... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattnj81 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 There was a lot that I didn't like about the ToJ scene, particularly cutting out 90% of the dialogue between Ned and the 3 KG. Going 6 v 2, instead of 7 v 3 was also bothersome (the number 7 does have quite some significance in the overall ASOIAF story, after all). But the dual wielding wasn't that big of a deal to me. I got the impression Dayne had no choice because they were so outnumbered. It's hard enough to fend off 4 attackers with two swords, let alone one. And given all the supernatural elements in GOT and ASOIAF, simply believing that the greatest swordsman who every lived could effectively wield two swords really isn't that big of a stretch. That being said, I wish it had been closer to the ToJ fan film. Imagine if D&D had actually filmed it this way, but with GoT's production value, acting quality and that excellent fight? Could have been amazing instead of just so-so. I'm sure everyone here has seen it, but I'll link below just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShirt47 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 19 minutes ago, The Unborn said: Some are disappointed in how Reed helped Ned, even though that was the most logical explanation. Did you guys expected Howland to do some magic trick ? Or did you expect Dayne to die, poisoned by his enemies ? I agree. It reminded me a little of how Meera sneaked up on Osha when Osha "captured" Jojen at their first encounter. She held a dagger to Osha's throat before Osha could even blink. I don't see how Howland with little conventional military skill could aid Ned. I wondered if it was a blow dart or something, though with Dayne is full plate armour this seems unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unborn Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 16 minutes ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said: He has said many times he doesn't agree with a great many things in the show. But he gets comfort by thinking he will allways have the books, the books are his creation, the show isn't. I don't understand your reaction. What is pathetic? People saying they didn't like the TOJ scene? No, I find it pathetic when people make assumptions about what the author must think. Maybe pathetic is a bit strong, english is not my first language, sorry. I know he disagrees sometimes about what the show does, and sometimes he likes what they are doing. I also know that a lot a fans assumes that whenever he says something positive or refuse to say something negative about a specific thing it's because he cannot say otherwise. I read a lot of comments, and it's basically : props to the actors, props to the stunt team, they made a terrific job but D&D screwed up. Again, per GRRM, the Tower of Joy chapter from the book is a dream,. Yet people nitpicks about things not being exactly like the book, down to the smallest detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Yorick Ampersand Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, The Unborn said: No, I find it pathetic when people make assumptions about what the author must think. Maybe pathetic is a bit strong, english is not my first language, sorry. I know he disagrees sometimes about what the show does, and sometimes he likes what they are doing. I also know that a lot a fans assumes that whenever he says something positive or refuse to say something negative about a specific thing it's because he cannot say otherwise. I read a lot of comments, and it's basically : props to the actors, props to the stunt team, they made a terrific job but D&D screwed up. Again, per GRRM, the Tower of Joy chapter from the book is a dream,. Yet people nitpicks about things not being exactly like the book, down to the smallest detail. Arthur Dayne is a legend, Dawn is a mythical sword. Gerold Hightower was the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. It is because of Arthur Dayne wielding Dawn that Ned went to Starfall and Ashara Dayne killed herself. Because of that people think Ashara might be the mother of Jon. I don't think that is a small detail. We hear about them a lot in the books. It completely changes the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unborn Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Arthur was dual wielding, but he had Dawn. Look at the swords... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Murks Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 3 hours ago, RedShirt47 said: I really enjoyed that fight scene. I don't care about pedantic levels of realism from a tv show. I don't care if dual wielding didn't really happen on medieval battlefields, it looked cool on tv and that is the main priority of a tv show. Well, lightsabers look cool as well. They should have used those. Jokes aside: I don't mind it too much, the choreography was nicely done and the stunts were good, I guess. Still, the dual wielding remains a silly thing and was not necessary at all. Even for the best fighter ever, using two longswords is a very bad choice. And if he still decides to make that choice, maybe he isn't that good of a fighter after all.Most people watching the show don't care, I know. Was it impossible to make Dayne look like the legend he is, while using only one sword? I don't think so. Also, as was mentioned before: I cringed at the sword getting plunged into the ground. No one in their right mind would to that to a weapon like that. Even more silly than the dual wielding is Ned's company not wearing armor. I was pleasantly surprised by the kingsguard actually putting on helmets for a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Cambodia Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 33 minutes ago, mattnj81 said: That being said, I wish it had been closer to the ToJ fan film. Imagine if they had actually filmed it that way, but with GoT's production value, acting quality and that excellent fight? Could have been amazing instead of just so-so. I'm sure everyone here has seen it, but I'll link below just in case. I hadn't seen that. What superb production values! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unborn Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 10 minutes ago, Maester Murks said: Also, as was mentioned before: I cringed at the sword getting plunged into the ground. No one in their right mind would to that to a weapon like that. Okay, let's get this straight. Hightower is the one sharpening his sword, Dayne is the one plunging his sword into the ground. The sword is Dawn. I'm not sure, but Dawn keeps his edge, no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arthur Smith Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 16 hours ago, Nami said: Watch Spartacus. I was rooting for Arthur Dayne though. Sorry Ned I'm glad I'm not the only one who's thinking of Spartacus when watching the fight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.