Nerevanin Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 From the preview for episode 4 it's clear that Littlefinger is in the Vale, talking to Sweetrobin about Sansa being in danger. So what is his plan to do now? My theory: SR is the lord of the Vale (while LF being Lord Protector). I suppose that LF tries to get him agree with sending the army of the Vale to join the war. SR would probably stay in the Vale while LF would lead the knights to the North as he is shown somewhere in a forest covered in snow in the trailer. The other possibility is that he would bring SR along to marry Sansa to him. The question is what will happen then. I suppose that he will try to find Sansa and persuade her that he is on her side and use her for whatever plan he has in mind atm, while she wouldn't be particularly happy to see him after he practically sold her to the Boltons, although she agreed with it and LF didn't know what Ramsay was. She probably wouldn't believe him. My guess is that he might get caught up in the Bastardbowl in which he might join Jon for selfish reasons. But it's really hard to predict what LF would do. What is your opinion and theories and ideas? Anyway I'm happy to have the master schemer of the story back (and I hope they won't kill him this season)! EDIT: For those wondering whether Littlefinger knew or didn't know about Ramsay's cruel behaviour, Aidan Gillen, the actor who plays Littlefinger, recently said in an interview: " For me, this time out, there’s a level of atonement in relation to Sansa and my misjudgment of Ramsay Bolton. [...] I left Sansa married to a psychopath. It’s probably the one time we’ve seen Littlefinger slip up. He really didn’t know about him. He should have. [...] But in the world of our story everyone does not know. A lot happens behind closed doors, or closed gates. So I know it seems unlikely Petyr Baelish, who knows everything, would be unaware of his reputation and the depths of his cruelty." So there you have it. LF didn't know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJE Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I think he is for sure bring the army of the Vale North. I doubt he will bring SR or marry him to Sansa. I also think that he will join with Jon and I am starting to think that LF will be th eone who reveals R+L=J to Jon. I don't know how he could possibly know, just that little smirk he gave Sansa in the Crypts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 45 minutes ago, DJE said: I think he is for sure bring the army of the Vale North. I doubt he will bring SR or marry him to Sansa. I also think that he will join with Jon and I am starting to think that LF will be th eone who reveals R+L=J to Jon. I don't know how he could possibly know, just that little smirk he gave Sansa in the Crypts. The legions of the Vale are the last intact army in Westeros. Given the historical and present-day affiliation between Houses Stark and Arryn, it makes sound sense for them to lend their weight towards the restoration of House Stark. When all seems darkest in the battles of the Snows, I think we can count on Littlefinger to arrive with the cavalry. This is just setting up the payback for five episodes hence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tysha's New Man Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I agree. LF will most likely persuade SR to call his banners and march the army to the North. Two interesting ideas I had right after the episode was 1) LF will most likely want to lead the army north which could've been that little smirk Lord Royce was giving when LF is talking with SR. Royce will most likely want to lead the army since he is the proven warrior and commander. 2) What are the chances the army of the Vale will march past the twins? It is technically on the way and since the lords of the Vale are devout to the Seven (Freys broke one of the oldest laws of the Gods), it would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Oaf of Highgarden Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 The last we saw of Littlefinger he was promising Cersei to defeat the Boltons or Stannis, depending on who was victorious, in return for him being declared Warden of the North. So I can see him joining forces with the Starks. What he does after that is anyone's guess though. It is LF after all! I think what will be interesting is how will Sansa react, assuming they come face to face this season. I am quite looking forward to seeing that. Also you say that LF did not know what Ramsay was like and I know in season five he claims to have heard little about Ramsay. I am not overly convinced by this though. Surely a man like LF will have known at least a little about Ramsay. A man who tries to rule through fear is what Ramsay does and surely a knock on effect of this is news spreads of what he is like. LF has enough spies after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baelor_the_Blessed Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 The spoiler picture showing someone flayed and burning on a cross? My guess is that is LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, Darren Allen said: The spoiler picture showing someone flayed and burning on a cross? My guess is that is LF. No, probably Osha. Unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Edd of House Tollet Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 This might be a strecht, but a way to Vale troops reach Winterfell is through White Harbor....Perhaps we will indeed have the Manderlys on the battle, and at the Stark side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 8 hours ago, Nerevanin said: SR is the lord of the Vale (while LF being Lord Protector). I suppose that LF tries to get him agree with sending the army of the Vale to join the war. SR would probably stay in the Vale while LF would lead the knights to the North as he is shown somewhere in a forest covered in snow in the trailer. The other possibility is that he would bring SR along to marry Sansa to him. The question is what will happen then. I suppose that he will try to find Sansa and persuade her that he is on her side and use her for whatever plan he has in mind atm, while she wouldn't be particularly happy to see him after he practically sold her to the Boltons, although she agreed with it and LF didn't know what Ramsay was. She probably wouldn't believe him. My guess is that he might get caught up in the Bastardbowl in which he might join Jon for selfish reasons. But it's really hard to predict what LF would do. What is your opinion and theories and ideas? That's generally how I think its going to go down. LF has been manipulating Sansa all along, both in the books and the show, in order to exploit and co-opt her claim on Winterfell and the North. No doubt he's going to bring his armies north and play a role in the Boltons' defeat, after which, I expect he'll try to manipulate Sansa (who will now effectively be Lady/Queen Sansa of the North) into marrying him to further his own power and greed, which probably isn't going to go over quite so well for him this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 It may be that the Vale might decide the potential Battle of Winterfell. We know that LF is "authorized" by the Crown to wipe out the Boltons and he will be made Warden of the North if he places Sansa's head on a spike. Sansa may not trust him, might even hate him but if the Vale Lords are obedient to him, then she may need him. Either way. I do not like this for Sansa in the end. LF always comes out better than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 4 hours ago, Darren Allen said: The spoiler picture showing someone flayed and burning on a cross? My guess is that is LF. I wish that were so but I think at the end of the Season, either he gets surprisingly arrested/executed at Sansa's order for pimping her out to the Bolton and lying about it or she marries him as he has an Army and maybe she strikes a deal with him to get them on her's and Jon's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashlesha Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 In last season LF had taken Cercei's permission to take the army north and destroy the Boltons. He is going to do just that. LF does not have experience in warfare. He is not going to lead the army, he is going to camp it out in Vale. Royce will lead the army. Sansa is going to use this army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arthur Smith Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 14 hours ago, Darren Allen said: The spoiler picture showing someone flayed and burning on a cross? My guess is that is LF. Wishful thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 15 hours ago, Tysha's New Man said: 2) What are the chances the army of the Vale will march past the twins? It is technically on the way and since the lords of the Vale are devout to the Seven (Freys broke one of the oldest laws of the Gods), it would make sense. My guess is that the Vale army will go by ships. LF with a few knights might ride through Twins (which were in the trailer IIRC) and pretend that he is on a diplomatic mission while the army will go unseen on ships and then unexpectedly landing somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 15 hours ago, Lord Oaf of Highgarden said: Also you say that LF did not know what Ramsay was like and I know in season five he claims to have heard little about Ramsay. I am not overly convinced by this though. Surely a man like LF will have known at least a little about Ramsay. A man who tries to rule through fear is what Ramsay does and surely a knock on effect of this is news spreads of what he is like. LF has enough spies after all. I don't agree. I don't think that LF would give his precious Sansa to such a monstrous man if he knew what Ramsay was like. Like, why would LF even say that he didn't know much about Ramsay, if it wasn't true? What would he get from that? Nevermind. LF risked a LOT for Sansa - he kept in touch with her through Dontos, which was risky a lot for Dontos was a drunk fool, LF came back for her to KL so she wouldn't be executed for killing Joffrey, he killed his wife who was the key for his power over the Vale. In my opinion, the whole TV show plot in which LF married Sansa to Ramsay didn't make much sense to me - other than labeling the Boltons as traitors - because it was all pretty dangerous for both LF and Sansa and although LF probably hoped that Stannis wouldn't hurt Sansa if he took over Winterfell, he couldn't be sure that it won't all go to hell. And imo he lost more from it (Sansa) then he gained (the Crown turned on the Boltons and he was promised that he might be the Warden of the North). It seems to me that the only real reason it happened like that was that they could go on with Ramsay's and Theon's story unchanged from the books without a need of a new female character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 15 hours ago, bb1180 said: That's generally how I think its going to go down. LF has been manipulating Sansa all along, both in the books and the show, in order to exploit and co-opt her claim on Winterfell and the North. No doubt he's going to bring his armies north and play a role in the Boltons' defeat, after which, I expect he'll try to manipulate Sansa (who will now effectively be Lady/Queen Sansa of the North) into marrying him to further his own power and greed, which probably isn't going to go over quite so well for him this time around. It's clear that the book LF wants Sansa for himself but he can't do it at the moment for several reasons. The show LF seems to be very similar in this aspect but I think that he did a terrible mistake in his master plan when he let Sansa out of his sight in S5 which was critical for her. If he stayed with her and bring her with him, they could become some kind of business partners imo, but she was left alone and will probably see it as a betrayal (although she agreed to marry Ramsay, which I am sure she won't remember if/when she meets LF again) and with Brienne by her side Sansa will surely become more confident, independent and strong. LF will have a hard time persuading Sansa to marry him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Nerevanin said: It's clear that the book LF wants Sansa for himself but he can't do it at the moment for several reasons. The show LF seems to be very similar in this aspect but I think that he did a terrible mistake in his master plan when he let Sansa out of his sight in S5 which was critical for her. If he stayed with her and bring her with him, they could become some kind of business partners imo, but she was left alone and will probably see it as a betrayal (although she agreed to marry Ramsay, which I am sure she won't remember if/when she meets LF again) and with Brienne by her side Sansa will surely become more confident, independent and strong. LF will have a hard time persuading Sansa to marry him. Agreed, and for the reasons you state, that's why I think its going to go rather poorly for LF in the end. I have a feeling that Sansa may kill him by the time its all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 36 minutes ago, bb1180 said: Agreed, and for the reasons you state, that's why I think its going to go rather poorly for LF in the end. I have a feeling that Sansa may kill him by the time its all over. Yeah, I am afraid that in the show Sansa might really kill LF (while in books I think that she will cause his downfall but might not kill him at the end). But if it is because of the Boltons episode, I'd be mad as hell because that was Sansa's doing as much as LF's. I'm pretty sure that if she didn't agree to marry Ramsay, LF wouldn't do it against her will. Yes, he would persuade her, he wouldn't be happy about it but I don't think that he would force her. (And LF was pretty confident that she would accept all the time which she did) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasing the dragons Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 LF is all about LF. I don't believe he would actually commit to a side unless he knows it is the winning one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 42 minutes ago, Nerevanin said: But if it is because of the Boltons episode, I'd be mad as hell because that was Sansa's doing as much as LF's. I'm pretty sure that if she didn't agree to marry Ramsay, LF wouldn't do it against her will. Yes, he would persuade her, he wouldn't be happy about it but I don't think that he would force her. Myself, I'm reluctant to place much blame on Sansa for the Bolton situation. Technically, she did agree to it, but it wasn't her idea and she didn't exactly go into it enthusiastically. She did it because Littlefinger manipulated her into doing it and convinced her it was in her best interests (when it was really in HIS best interests). She's not stupid, but she is young, naive and trusting, and Littlefinger used those weaknesses, his position as her mentor/guardian and his overall position of power in their relationship to his advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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