(Spoilers) So - which events from the show will happen in the books and in what way?

[Lord_Ravenstone]

23 hours ago, Desert Fox said:

No way does the show drop a trial by combat with zombie mountain if the books have it. That's a fair cheap scene and something that the show loves--violence. My guess is the banning of trial by combat is the reason Cersei burns down Kingslanding in both mediums. My second guess is that this happens early in TWOW and the show is dragging it out with show only shit to have it happen in the final episode.

Nope. Cersei is strongly implied to already be back in control and free as of the Mercy chapter 

[Protagoras]

Sooo - the special episode 9. And it certainly doesn´t disappoint...at least when it comes to the action.

Its a big advance from the last three shitty episodes and it is easy to just lay back and watch the action (and some Peter Jackson/Tolkien theft). The problem is that the story, as usual, suffers. This is like a leg without meat nor marrow, a dry old thing compared to the meat filled bones of GRRM. If I just judge the battles, its a strong 8 or even 9 but considering the story issues, I cant give this more than a weak 7. Still - its higher than the last episodes of shit, so I am happy.

Mereen: Mereen is a great example of this lack of meat. The slaves are losing (obviously - a spoiler, 100% from the book and a surprise to absolutely no one) yet what lacks is the complexity, the hidden agendas and the general chaos. This is too neat and too easily tidied up. In the book, the battle itself is not really the interesting parts but what losses there will be and who will act. Will the Shavepate kill the hostages or do something? Will Victarions horn work? will Barristan die in the fighting or be killed later (Yeah, his death last season is most likely a 100% spoiler). Then Theon/Asha arrives, replacing Victarion (His death does seems written in the stars does it) and explaining where Daenerys gets her fleet to transport her troops. But seriously - independence? Will the Ironborn get that in the books too? I am very, very sceptical.

In general, I think the end result in Mereen will be about the same when you look on the big thingsonly , but it is the little things that makes the story come alive.This is a shortcut.

The North: First - the parley (Who is stupid enough to parley with Ramsay? I was expecting a sneak attack at any point). Secondly, the conflict Sansa vs Jon (she hiding the existence of the Vale army) is most likely a reflection of the different agendas and the complication the war in the north will take, resulting in a clusterfuck making the land ripe for the taking by the others (It wouldn´t surprise me if Jon and Sansa/Littlefinger ends up on different sides in the war). So, yes - it does feel like book spoilers 100%, but not in a way GRRM will do it. Again we have the end result (or parts of it) but not the way. Also remember that this is episode 9 and should reflect the whole book. Most likely the Boltons won´t go down easy and will take most, if not the whole, of WoW to do. The show does this in a drugged frenzymode however, making one battle the entire campaign - I am pretty conviced the bleeding on all sides will be higher than this.

Then Rickon dies - Yup, doesn´t look good for him in the books. Regardless where, how or when he dies I think this is a spoiler and that he will die 100% in the books too.

Then we get some good action, but some plagiarism (The Boltons surround/Saurons army and The Vale troops/"Look to the east"), ending with a very dead Ramsay (Hopefully he will be killed in such as gruesome way too in the books - he actually deserves worse, but it is something). That Ramsay will die is again a spoiler, 100% from the book and a surprise to absolutely no one.

And (as Linda asked in her review) where is Ghost? Or is it as I have suspected a long while, due to the he was a man, then beast, then man quote, that Ghost needs to die so that Jon could live? If so, shouldn´t they say so? Or is the show filling us with a false sense of bullshit happiness that Jon returning will have no bad consequences whatsoever? Thats not how GRRM write, people!

Agree/Disagree?

[Little Scribe of Naath]

What are people's opinions on the Yara/Dany alliance of this episode? Does it hint that in the books, she will ally with Victarion over Euron? 

I always assumed that Euron would have some trick up his sleeve to prevent Victarion from stealing away with Dany.

[House Cambodia]

13 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

What are people's opinions on the Yara/Dany alliance of this episode? Does it hint that in the books, she will ally with Victarion over Euron? 

I always assumed that Euron would have some trick up his sleeve to prevent Victarion from stealing away with Dany.

Well it certainly won't be Asha. The hints at lesbianism are pure D&D. I don't think 100 Good Ships will be sufficient for the Dothraki Horde either, so in the books I'd say Euron's fleet will be the most tempting.

[Iron Mother]

WHO WILL KILL CERCEI?  ARYA OR THE VALANQYRE?

[zorkman]

5 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

What are people's opinions on the Yara/Dany alliance of this episode? Does it hint that in the books, she will ally with Victarion over Euron? 

I always assumed that Euron would have some trick up his sleeve to prevent Victarion from stealing away with Dany.

Asha/Yara never leaves Westeros in the books, & was last seen not far from Winterfell with Stanis army. That was a Victorion arc, with him going to meet Dany.

[JonSnowed]

I think they have given Yara some of Victorians arc and shifted her story, I don't believe this will happen exactly in the books but Dany will use the Ironborn fleet all the same. 

I would guess in the books Stannis is defeated and Theon/Yara are on the run for a while.

[Protagoras]

Yup, Victarions arc have been taken over by Theon/Yara - who at this point in the tv series wont have much to do. Whatever Theons and Ashas arc in the books are, I am pretty sure one of them (not sure which one of them) ends up dead in WoW. Both of them alive fills no purpose but for the unrealistic dream that is a Kingsmoot overturning. And GRRM likes to kill POW when 1. Many of the converge (otherwise forcing him to write the same thing from many perspectives with little variation) and 2. When their arcs have "ended" (like Robb) which could be true for both Asha and Theon. 

The Iron fleet won´t be enough for Daenerys army in the books I think. Luckily they have more boats in the Volantene fleet they could use. Too bad the show doesnt answer if Daenerys will attack Volantis and other free cities.

[zorkman]

1 hour ago, JonSnowed said:

I think they have given Yara some of Victorians arc and shifted her story, I don't believe this will happen exactly in the books but Dany will use the Ironborn fleet all the same. 

I would guess in the books Stannis is defeated and Theon/Yara are on the run for a while.

I don't think so. I think it is more or less certain the Bolton's will be beaten and die, & it has to be through Stannis forces as there is no one else. Fantasy armies from the dead Jon Snow & the Vale either don't exist or would take an age to get there, considering the vale hasn't even mentioned what's going on up north. Fantasy of the show's as always. Theon/Asha are just taking Victorian's arc in the show.

[Firefae]

I don't think that Asha&Theon will go to Meereen, I think they will go the NW where Theon takes the black , I don't know what Asha will do, she could die. I think Asha will take back the iron islands when Euron is away and together with the remaining ships/ loyal men will fight against the Others.

But they won't get involved in the Victarion plotline.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

5 hours ago, zorkman said:

Asha/Yara never leaves Westeros in the books, & was last seen not far from Winterfell with Stanis army. That was a Victorion arc, with him going to meet Dany.

Yes, I agree in the show Yara is clearly meant to be a Victarion replacement. Since they are showing Dany accepting her offer, I wondered if it implied that Dany would ally with Vic and not Euron in the books.

I think all signs point towards her heading to overthrow Volantis, so yes she would be able to gain control of their fleet, I suppose. 

 In the books, Asha and Theon will be involved in the Northern (Stannis) plotline for quite a while to come.

 

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I now feel pretty confident that some version of the GNC will happen in the books. In the show we have houses Mormont, Manderly, and Glover proclaim Jon KITN.

This fits the GNC because those three houses are believed to to the main participants, particularly Mormont and Glover since they are the ones carrying Robb's Will.

So the way this scene played out in the show indicates to me Robb's Will will play a big part in Jon becoming KITN.

[JonSnowed]

Fully agree, there were a ton of spoilers in todays episode from the next book:

* Jon will rally and become king in the North

* R+L = J is true.

* Cersei will rule in Kings Landing after defeating the faith.

* Dany will leave for Westeros and ally with Dorne.

 

Some of the details may be different but I would by truly amazed if this is not Winds plot lines.

 

Ps anyone pick up on the comment from Benjen about magic in the wall, does he know that BRan is marked?

 

 

 

 

[Ser Quork]

2 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

Fully agree, there were a ton of spoilers in todays episode from the next book:

* Jon will rally and become king in the North

* R+L = J is true.

* Cersei will rule in Kings Landing after defeating the faith.

* Dany will leave for Westeros and ally with Dorne.

 

Some of the details may be different but I would by truly amazed if this is not Winds plot lines.

 

Ps anyone pick up on the comment from Benjen about magic in the wall, does he know that BRan is marked?

 

 

 

 

I don't think this "mark" is from the books.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

2 hours ago, JonSnowed said:

Fully agree, there were a ton of spoilers in todays episode from the next book:

* Jon will rally and become king in the North

* R+L = J is true.

* Cersei will rule in Kings Landing after defeating the faith.

* Dany will leave for Westeros and ally with Dorne.

 

Some of the details may be different but I would by truly amazed if this is not Winds plot lines.

 

Ps anyone pick up on the comment from Benjen about magic in the wall, does he know that BRan is marked?

 

 

 

 

Dany won't ally with Dorne in the books. Quite the opposite. 

Dorne will ally with Aegon and fight Daenerys. Quentyn's plotline made sure of it.

Show Dany basically picked up part of Aegon's role. 

And Cersei has already won her trial in the books. Plus the High Sparrow is most likely going to ally with Aegon as well.

I do think the High Sparrow is going to get blown up as well but think Daenerys blowing KL up  

 

[Lord Varys]

On 21.6.2016 at 5:59 AM, Little Scribe of Naath said:

What are people's opinions on the Yara/Dany alliance of this episode? Does it hint that in the books, she will ally with Victarion over Euron? 

I always assumed that Euron would have some trick up his sleeve to prevent Victarion from stealing away with Dany.

I don't think Dany will even meet Victarion. That guy is in for a huge surprise when the horn is sounded. Moqorro sounds very ominous when he speaks about the glory that awaits him. He'll most likely be burned and ripped to pieces by the dragons (or perhaps only by Rhaegal).

Vic's entire purpose was to get the ships to Slaver's Bay. He is not needed for Dany's people to actually take possession of his ships. They can do that all by themselves.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think Dany will even meet Victarion. That guy is in for a huge surprise when the horn is sounded. Moqorro sounds very ominous when he speaks about the glory that awaits him. He'll most likely be burned and ripped to pieces by the dragons (or perhaps only by Rhaegal).

Vic's entire purpose was to get the ships to Slaver's Bay. He is not needed for Dany's people to actually take possession of his ships. They can do that all by themselves.

Very possible and in fact the most likely scenario. Vic is totally dumb enough to try controlling one of the dragons by himself, and then, getting 'Quentyn-ed'. 

GRRM also needs to start paring down the number of POVs, and in Meereen we have quite a few of them converging. Barristan and Vic are quite likely goners with Tyrion remaining as the POV for that area.

However, Dany + Euron leaves me really worried for her...

[Jairion Lannister]

Think that left us similarly to where we'll be at the end of TWOW. Jon will take Winterfell, either from Stannis or the Boltons, and be proclaimed KoTN. Sansa and Littlefinger will arrive at around a similar time, giving us a Stark reunion, and Littlefinger machinations. Jon's parentage will also be revealed, although perhaps not to him yet.

Cersei will burn down the sept, and take the throne for herself. I'm unsure how this'll factor in with Aegon's invasion, though, so she could potentially do it quite early on in TWOW.

Arya will also probably kill Walder Frey upon her return to Westeros, or at least get revenge in some form.

[Chainiar]

The army of the Vale arrived because Sansa asked Littlefinger to fight for Jon. Now, Sansa and Jon are reunited and Jon is KoTN. In the books, we may well have a battle of bastards, if Jon is resurrected (with the sacrifice of shireen) and decide to fight with Stannis. Sansa is somehow aware of that war (her little finger told her so ! )and command Petyr to ride North and make the army of the Vale fight with Jon. Stannis is killed during the battle so there is only Jon who is proclamed KoTN. Ramsey is then killed by Jeyne and the books and the shows have the same ending regarding the North and Winterfell. It'd be cool if it was like that in the books even if it is very unlikely. At the time Sansa learns, the battle would have already ended.

[Lord Varys]

16 minutes ago, Jairion Lannister said:

Think that left us similarly to where we'll be at the end of TWOW. Jon will take Winterfell, either from Stannis or the Boltons, and be proclaimed KoTN. Sansa and Littlefinger will arrive at around a similar time, giving us a Stark reunion, and Littlefinger machinations. Jon's parentage will also be revealed, although perhaps not to him yet.

Cersei will burn down the sept, and take the throne for herself. I'm unsure how this'll factor in with Aegon's invasion, though, so she could potentially do it quite early on in TWOW.

Arya will also probably kill Walder Frey upon her return to Westeros, or at least get revenge in some form.

That is all very unlikely for the books.

1. Why should Howland Reed (who controls Robb's will right now) want to make Jon Snow King in the North?

2. Why should Sansa/Littlefinger go north in the books? They can wait until the next spring when they actually have a chance to conquer it. It is much more likely that they will go down south to join Aegon. His arrival is the huge game changer in the book and Littlefinger might decide that he is Sansa's ticket to the Iron Throne.

3. Cersei is most certainly never going to become Queen Regnant of anything in the books. Her walk ensured that this cannot possibly happen in the books.

4. Walder Frey should not live to see Arya return to the Riverlands. Catelyn will kill him. She is the specter of revenge, not Arya. Arya just got that story because the show fucked up her story (or rather cut whatever she is actually going to do).

26 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Very possible and in fact the most likely scenario. Vic is totally dumb enough to try controlling one of the dragons by himself, and then, getting 'Quentyn-ed'. 

GRRM also needs to start paring down the number of POVs, and in Meereen we have quite a few of them converging. Barristan and Vic are quite likely goners with Tyrion remaining as the POV for that area.

However, Dany + Euron leaves me really worried for her...

Right now Barristan has a much better chance to survive for quite some time than Victarion. Tyrion is not likely to take over Dany's troops in her absence. He is an ugly dwarf with no connections to anyone in Dany's camp. Her Meereenese people do not know him, and neither do the sellswords aside from the Second Sons.

Selmy really is the glue that keeps Dany's movement together. If he were to die everything would disintegrate soon while Dany is away. Thus I think he'll remain at least until Dany returns. Eventually he might die but who knows? George may spare him until such time as he can meet Jaime or other major characters in Westeros.

Not to mention that he might have special knowledge he has yet to share with both Tyrion and Daenerys - for instance, about Aerys and Joanna and Tyrion's true parentage, or perhaps even about Lyanna and Rhaegar. The obvious alliance between Jon Snow and Daenerys can best be established if the story that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married (or that Lyanna was pregnant) is already known by Tyrion and Dany. If not, then Jon's story is going to sound very implausible to pretty much anyone.

1 minute ago, Chainiar said:

Ramsey is then killed by Jeyne and the books and the shows have the same ending regarding the North and Winterfell.

Ramsay will be killed by Theon in the books. Either during the coming battle at the lake or later on when Stannis takes Winterfell. The show really fucked things up when they decide to disallow Theon his revenge. Assuming Theon is going to survive. But if there is a character who is set up to take out Ramsay it is Theon. Nothing else will finally break the spell the man he has over him.