The monkeys growing?

[sifth]

3 hours ago, aRanycsapat said:

Masha,

Unfortunately George's response to queries about that remark he made is that the internet is full of idiots -- it was hyperbole, an exaggeration for effect.

Where did he say this? I can't seem to find it on his Not Blog, lol

 

never mind, I found it, lol

[Masha]

18 hours ago, aRanycsapat said:

Masha,

Unfortunately George's response to queries about that remark he made is that the internet is full of idiots -- it was hyperbole, an exaggeration for effect.

You can't blame us, the idiots LOL. At this point we are desperately grabbing at any hint about the closeness of the completion of the book and unlike previous book, GRRM gives out zero hints since Dec 31st when he had said that he had "months to go"

[Rise]

51 minutes ago, Masha said:

You can't blame us, the idiots LOL. At this point we are desperately grabbing at any hint about the closeness of the completion of the book and unlike previous book, GRRM gives out zero hints since Dec 31st when he had said that he had "months to go"

Doesn't want to get our hopes up and more pressure to himself to finish it.

[Prince of the North]

2 hours ago, Rise said:

Doesn't want to get our hopes up and more pressure to himself to finish it.

Yep.  Martin definitely learned his lesson the hard way, many years ago now, about giving updates and estimates on how he is progressing with the books.  And I certainly don't blame him.  It's much better for everyone, especially for him, to simply not say anything about book progress until there's actually something important to say

[Masha]

5 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Yep.  Martin definitely learned his lesson the hard way, many years ago now, about giving updates and estimates on how he is progressing with the books.  And I certainly don't blame him.  It's much better for everyone, especially for him, to simply not say anything about book progress until there's actually something important to say

Yes, I understand this point of view. But it also leaves fans just grasping at Anything, any stray word, a joke, hyperboles for any hint about the book. But I also meant, that as recently as  ADWD release, right before the big announcement, George routinely would mention something on the side, like working on this chapter or next one, things are going good, or finally left maureen and gone north, that sort of thing. So far this year, maybe he mentioned something twice at best and that lack of info from his side is so discouraging that book fans are getting quite desperate for any scrap of info.

[Prince of the North]

1 minute ago, Masha said:

Yes, I understand this point of view. But it also leaves fans just grasping at Anything, any stray word, a joke, hyperboles for any hint about the book. But I also meant, that as recently as  ADWD release, right before the big announcement, George routinely would mention something on the side, like working on this chapter or next one, things are going good, or finally left maureen and gone north, that sort of thing. So far this year, maybe he mentioned something twice at best and that lack of info from his side is so discouraging that book fans are getting quite desperate for any scrap of info.

And I understand what you're saying here...it's just that Martin can't help what people choose to make of every word that comes out of his mouth.  All he can do, when people misinterpret things or whatever, is what he's done in this case: just set the record straight and move on.  I guess you're right that it would be okay for Martin to still say things like "it's going well" or "I'm currently working on an Essos chapter", etc.  But what he can't do and will never do again is actually make estimates as to when he may finish.  That way lies madness...for everyone 

[Cas Stark]

But, he makes estimates and gives them to his publisher.

IMO, if he were really close, as in the book would be OUT in the next 6 months, he would say so.  He says nothing encouraging...but we know he is still quite prone to denial and over optimism, as he admitted when he told the public that he had blown by 2 sets of deadlines he gave his publisher.

Now, logically, if he had thought he was 'close' legitimately way back last Summer, when he initially set the first deadline that he missed, and then again thought he was still close when he set the next deadline in January? then you would conclude he's almost finished.  However, based on his past record, it's very possible that all of those deadlines were products of denial and extreme optimism.  And that he is not close.

It's the end of June.  If the book is to be out by Christmas shopping, he has to be finished within less than 3 months.

[Prince of the North]

39 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

But, he makes estimates and gives them to his publisher.

IMO, if he were really close, as in the book would be OUT in the next 6 months, he would say so.  He says nothing encouraging...but we know he is still quite prone to denial and over optimism, as he admitted when he told the public that he had blown by 2 sets of deadlines he gave his publisher.

Now, logically, if he had thought he was 'close' legitimately way back last Summer, when he initially set the first deadline that he missed, and then again thought he was still close when he set the next deadline in January? then you would conclude he's almost finished.  However, based on his past record, it's very possible that all of those deadlines were products of denial and extreme optimism.  And that he is not close.

It's the end of June.  If the book is to be out by Christmas shopping, he has to be finished within less than 3 months.

Sure he gives estimates to his publisher but those aren't really widely publicized, are they?  Also, the reality is that only one person can really place deadlines on Martin anymore - Martin himself.  So, if he gives his publisher a deadline, and then blows it, what are they gonna do?  Drop him?  Never in a million years!  He's far too bankable for that...and he knows it.  Any deadline he gives even his publisher is a "soft" deadline at this point.

I basically agree with you.  Sure, I would love TWoW in my hands sooner rather than later but I just think it's smart of Martin to say as little about it as possible at this point.  I saw it blow up too many times back in the days when he used to write much more about how things were going, etc. on his site.

I also wonder, just a little bit, if he might be waiting for the show to reach some "point of no return" before he submits TWoW?  I don't know but...

[Rise]

51 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

 

I also wonder, just a little bit, if he might be waiting for the show to reach some "point of no return" before he submits TWoW?  I don't know but...

I think the show had done point to no return with some storylines. So he don't need to wait that

[Annarkie]

On 6/20/2016 at 2:21 PM, Masha said:

Just saw GRRM vs Stephen King and George basically asks him how he managers to write this fast while he spends 6 months finishing 3 chapters and thats when he is in the zone....this doesn't sound good to me. 3 chapters since January?

On the funnier side, I just remembered the big story late last summer about upcoming book release that spread out because someone saw Brian Cogman (one of GOT writers) walking around with a big manuscript named The Winds of Winter. Everyone was SURE that TWOW was done and GOT writers got their preview from GRRM first draft, and when they started swearing up and down that it wasn't the book but of course nobody believed them, because Jon Snow is really really dead! LOL

Just saw that the season finale of season 6 is called TWOW and they were actually carrying around script for that episode not book manuscript...

 

 

Although I think that's partially exaggeration, as King has established that it takes him 3 months to finish a rough draft most of the time, so that would be 2 books in 6 months, George's remark may be close. 3 chapters per six months, after 5 years and 3 months gives us between 30 & 43 chapters, depending on how many of the 13 sample chapters out were held back from ADWD. If he does have closer to 43, and Dance had 54 chapters, then he's closer to finishing.... 1 year and seven months.

((disclaimer, this is not a dead serious speculation. I'm well aware of the foolish madness in trying to predict his progress)) 

[sifth]

26 minutes ago, Annarkie said:

Although I think that's partially exaggeration, as King has established that it takes him 3 months to finish a rough draft most of the time, so that would be 2 books in 6 months, George's remark may be close. 3 chapters per six months, after 5 years and 3 months gives us between 30 & 43 chapters, depending on how many of the 13 sample chapters out were held back from ADWD. If he does have closer to 43, and Dance had 54 chapters, then he's closer to finishing.... 1 year and seven months.

((disclaimer, this is not a dead serious speculation. I'm well aware of the foolish madness in trying to predict his progress)) 

Don't forget he had around 200 pages left over from ADWD. In fact just about all of the sample chapters for WoW are left over chapters from the last book.

[zalim]

I personally believe that Grrm is delaying the books on purpose...

The mess show made from his books is just terrible.. so i think he is trying to 

protect his last 2 books from getting raped like the previous 5 in form of a show...

I think he wants the show to end and then he will release his books...

another reason i believe the books are late is, publicity, grrm has sold ALOT and i mean ALOT of his old work 

through his website grrm not a blog which is regularly visited by thousands of ppl around the world... many get to know more

 about his previous work and the way he sponsors others.. by doing that he is earning shit loads of money.. so delaying the books 

for as long as he can is WIN WIN WIN situation for him... the fans have to wait there is simply no choice.... 

The fact is grrm is very greedy man and once again i dont mean in a bad way, i love money too.... but i think he should think about his legacy in this age instead of money...

[sifth]

2 hours ago, zalim said:

I personally believe that Grrm is delaying the books on purpose...

The mess show made from his books is just terrible.. so i think he is trying to 

protect his last 2 books from getting raped like the previous 5 in form of a show...

I think he wants the show to end and then he will release his books...

another reason i believe the books are late is, publicity, grrm has sold ALOT and i mean ALOT of his old work 

through his website grrm not a blog which is regularly visited by thousands of ppl around the world... many get to know more

 about his previous work and the way he sponsors others.. by doing that he is earning shit loads of money.. so delaying the books 

for as long as he can is WIN WIN WIN situation for him... the fans have to wait there is simply no choice.... 

The fact is grrm is very greedy man and once again i dont mean in a bad way, i love money too.... but i think he should think about his legacy in this age instead of money...

Even if this is true, and I don't believe it is; nothing makes GRRM more money than releasing a new A Song of Ice and Fire book. You have no idea how well A Dance with Dragons sold back in 2011, if your saying this. The book was on the New York Times best sellers list for months.

[Masha]

56 minutes ago, sifth said:

Even if this is true, and I don't believe it is; nothing makes GRRM more money than releasing a new A Song of Ice and Fire Book. You have no idea how well A Dance with Dragons sold back in 2011, if you saying this. The books was on the New York Times best sellers list for months.

And imagine how much money he lost by NOT releasing the book before season 6!!! If anything he probably lost about 20% of potential readers who only wanted to read the books to find out about if Jon is dead

[Annarkie]

4 hours ago, sifth said:

Don't forget he had around 200 pages left over from ADWD. In fact just about all of the sample chapters for WoW are left over chapters from the last book.

Yes, I was counting the 13 sample chapters as those left over from ADWD in his hypothetical 43. I should have shown my work, lol.

[zalim]

7 hours ago, sifth said:

Even if this is true, and I don't believe it is; nothing makes GRRM more money than releasing a new A Song of Ice and Fire book. You have no idea how well A Dance with Dragons sold back in 2011, if your saying this. The book was on the New York Times best sellers list for months.

yes he knows he has hardcore asoiaf fan base i mean lookat us here lol

so with the help pf show (no matter how bad it is) he is gaining more and more fans on daily basis and not just that he is getting to sold his work which is very old and was not that popular but now his fans are reading things he wrote in the past just to  pass time and all you know... soo winds of winter will be huge there is no doubt and he knows that his publishers know that but delaying the books till the end of got for good is the best strategy for him.... he will support any spin off of got for the same reason, it will keep him and his work on headlines as long as they are on tv like HBO

[sifth]

6 hours ago, Annarkie said:

Yes, I was counting the 13 sample chapters as those left over from ADWD in his hypothetical 43. I should have shown my work, lol.

I'd imagine he has more than just the sample chapters completed, when it comes to left over stuff from ADWD. GRRM probably completed both battles, before he stopped writing ADWD.

[zalim]

13 hours ago, Masha said:

And imagine how much money he lost by NOT releasing the book before season 6!!! If anything he probably lost about 20% of potential readers who only wanted to read the books to find out about if Jon is dead

actually no, Grrm is very clever and has learned how to make money...

i believe he knew the script changes D&D made, so he few months ago he announced a major twist with a character which is dead in the show...

also with every WoW secret revealed, D&D or Grrm tell the same thing in the interview that the events will be shown differently in the books...

remember if you haved read all 5 previous books and also you are watching the show so far you should know how different they are now...

its like 2 totally different universes with many important characters missing, wrong origing stories and very very wrong potrayel of magic or events...

I believe once GOT is done he will get way way more fans reading his books because we can tell that without Grrms assist. D&D are suffering with story telling lol they have idea about some major events but leading upto them sucks and is full of plot holes even only SHOW WATCHERS are noticing that

[sifth]

1 hour ago, zalim said:

I believe once GOT is done he will get way way more fans reading his books because we can tell that without Grrms assist. D&D are suffering with story telling lol they have idea about some major events but leading upto them sucks and is full of plot holes even only SHOW WATCHERS are noticing that

Having the ending already spoiled, I doubt it. Don't forget, GRRM has already told D & D all of the endings for the major characters. It's the small guys like Bronn and Dolorous Edd who's endings he hasn't planned out yet. So the tv series is going to show us a different route to how Bran, Dany, Tyrion, Jon Snow and every other major characters story comes to an end. GRRM's books will show us this as well, the path will just be different. I can already see fewer people reading the books, because they already know the ending.

 

Also don't forget that some people just don't like to read. I have 3 friends who love the show, but have never finished any of the books. One of these friends has tried to read AGoT's, but told me he was put off by GRRM's writing and felt too descriptive at times.

[Masha]

1 hour ago, zalim said:

actually no, Grrm is very clever and has learned how to make money...

i believe he knew the script changes D&D made, so he few months ago he announced a major twist with a character which is dead in the show...

also with every WoW secret revealed, D&D or Grrm tell the same thing in the interview that the events will be shown differently in the books...

remember if you haved read all 5 previous books and also you are watching the show so far you should know how different they are now...

its like 2 totally different universes with many important characters missing, wrong origing stories and very very wrong potrayel of magic or events...

I believe once GOT is done he will get way way more fans reading his books because we can tell that without Grrms assist. D&D are suffering with story telling lol they have idea about some major events but leading upto them sucks and is full of plot holes even only SHOW WATCHERS are noticing that

Yes, and D&D would be upset with him too for his delay. Because I believe that while they are adopting his books and had to change some storylines, they didn't really wanted to be forced to make up most of the plots in the ending on their own and be in that situation, and thats why GRRM had to give them the ending in order to assure them.

As for marketing. I know a lot of GOT fans who never bothered to read the book. I believe there are good 40% GOT TV fans who only learned about the books from the show and still haven't cracked open a book. Before season 6 they were really desperate to find out more, if the book came out even two weeks before the premiere, a good portion of them would have bought the book to find out. That would have been a LOT of new readers.

So yes, the original book readers who started with the book and went into the show, will read his book regardless of release, and yes many book readers who got into reading after watching the show and found out that they loved books more will read it too.

But there are lot of book readers who first watched the show and then got into the book in order to see the original and get spoilers will not read the books because they are late. And once show is over, many of them will not buy the books at all because once show is over the interest minimizes immediately. It happened many times with many books, comics books and adoptations for TV and movies before and it will happen again. Once the show/movie series is announced and is showing, a popularity spike on the books starts, however once the show is done, the books loose a lot of popularity and selling drops off substantially.  

 And yes, it will put the book into great best-seller list again and sell a lot perhaps breaking a lot of its own records, but not as much as could have if the book released BEFORE season 6.