The monkeys growing?

[The Fattest Leech]

11 hours ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Well, that was my take on it, but maybe more like exasperated ? (Which I get, to be honest) :

http://grrm.livejournal.com/492117.html#comments

Not to be the "Braggiest Leech" again, but, when I was at the kaffeklatch with him last month (a small group of eight w/George), we were told ahead of time NOT to ask about Winds. Same at the donation dinner a few nights before. He had one of his assistants come around ahead of time and gave us a few guidelines and then said to NOT ask about Winds. Even after being told all weekend to NOT ask about WInds, at that kaffeklatch, toward the end a woman thought she was being funny and frickin' asked when the book would be out. George was controlled, but visibly irritated someone asked that question and out meeting was ended very soon after. I was pissed!

[sifth]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Not to be the "Braggiest Leech" again, but, when I was at the kaffeklatch with him last month (a small group of eight w/George), we were told ahead of time NOT to ask about Winds. Same at the donation dinner a few nights before. He had one of his assistants come around ahead of time and gave us a few guidelines and then said to NOT ask about Winds. Even after being told all weekend to NOT ask about WInds, at that kaffeklatch, toward the end a woman thought she was being funny and frickin' asked when the book would be out. George was controlled, but visibly irritated someone asked that question and out meeting was ended very soon after. I was pissed!

 

So wait, he actually has assistants who come around asking fans not to ask questions about the book? That's insane. Is the writing really going that bad for the book I wonder.

[The Fattest Leech]

Just now, sifth said:

 

So wait, he actually has assistants who come around asking fans not to ask questions about the book? That's insane. Is the writing really going that bad for the book I wonder.

There is nothing in what I said or what happened that claims the writing is going badly. What the idea was/is, is that GRRM is tired of that question because, as GRRM always says, it will be done when it is done. He has answered it a million times at this point. Just like he has answered "who's your favorite character to write for?" type questions.

Also, he is also tired of people asking him what does he think of fan fiction (he does not like it), but people still keep asking him anyway and that question is also annoying to him anymore.

Didn't mean to confuse anyone.

[Entrisen]

11 hours ago, Yin & Yang said:

There really was no need for that from GRRM. The guy is obviously a huge fan and was just being hopeful, not outright rude. 

GRRM's response was the response of a frustrated man under pressure.

Well to be fair, I'm the guy that he got "angry" with, and sure it was a little embarrassing but I shouldn't have brought it up the way I did. I just am stoked for the next book, and I sincerely thought he was leaving hints in that blog post that there would be some kind of an announcement. So I just kind of poked at his side a bit. 

   The man is a genius and probably gets badgered about the novel every day by thousands of people. If I were in his shoes, I couldn't imagine, I'd probably go insane lol. 

[zalim]

wikipedia George R R Martin and you will see he is a writer so he is supposed to WRITE thats his job thats what he does...

there is nothing to get angry about if someone ask him about his JOB or something related to it...

actors act, builders build, writers write so there is nothing to get angry at anyone but in this case i dont think 

he was actually being rude or angry i think he just said that in a matter of fact way...

he is indeed a genius thats why he is delaying the books 

[sifth]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

There is nothing in what I said or what happened that claims the writing is going badly. What the idea was/is, is that GRRM is tired of that question because, as GRRM always says, it will be done when it is done. He has answered it a million times at this point. Just like he has answered "who's your favorite character to write for?" type questions.

Also, he is also tired of people asking him what does he think of fan fiction (he does not like it), but people still keep asking him anyway and that question is also annoying to him anymore.

Didn't mean to confuse anyone.

Sorry, just seemed that way by the way you mentioned it. It was like the only thing you weren't allowed to talk about was his next book. Then the moment someone talked about it he got angry. You were there though, so I wouldn't know, but that's just my 2 cents.

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, sifth said:

Sorry, just seemed that way by the way you mentioned it. It was like the only thing you weren't allowed to talk about was his next book. Then the moment someone talked about it he got angry. You were there though, so I wouldn't know, but that's just my 2 cents.

No problem

[HairGrowsBack]

6 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

There is nothing in what I said or what happened that claims the writing is going badly. What the idea was/is, is that GRRM is tired of that question because, as GRRM always says, it will be done when it is done. He has answered it a million times at this point. Just like he has answered "who's your favorite character to write for?" type questions.

Also, he is also tired of people asking him what does he think of fan fiction (he does not like it), but people still keep asking him anyway and that question is also annoying to him anymore.

Didn't mean to confuse anyone.

Yes, as @Entrisen said, he must be asked about it all the bloody time, it would make a lot of people go insane. I think most of the time (not in the case you mentioned, though) it isn't fans being desingenous about it, but them being relatively recent fans who don't follow Martin's every move and don't know how much he despises being asked about Winds.

[Calibandar]

12 hours ago, Masha said:

This is the time of year for me, as GOT season ends when I am just dying to read new ASOIAF book, would be great if George could manage to finish and release the book by end of the year/January!

But again, I am counting the months and wonder, its been 7!!! months since New Year and the book doesn't even look close to finished, especially based on grrm exasperatingly answering like this to a fan hint,  I just keep wondering again and again, how in the world he even thought possible last August that he would be able to finish the book by November (then) deadline. He obviously had at least good 9 months to a year worth of work left on the book, not 2-3 months worth

This echoes my sentiments as well, and probably anyone else who considers this reasonably.

Based on his New year's post and how he mentioned he thought he could have been done at no less than 3 different points in 2015, the fact that we are now in July 2016 and there is still no announcement, at the very least suggests that the writing again hasn't been smooth or productive. Apologists will be quick to mention that this does not mean that he could not have *any* productive periods, and I am not suggesting that he hasn't. But clearly we are now 6 months on, and he's not done, does not sound close to being done , and I'll note that 6 months is a longer period than he thought he needed at every one of those points in 2015. In each of those cases, he thought he would be done 3/4 months later. 

I am seriously beginning to wonder if a 2016 finish of the manuscript is on the cards at all.

 

[Lord Freypie]

13 hours ago, Masha said:

This is the time of year for me, as GOT season ends when I am just dying to read new ASOIAF book, would be great if George could manage to finish and release the book by end of the year/January!

But again, I am counting the months and wonder, its been 7!!! months since New Year and the book doesn't even look close to finished, especially based on grrm exasperatingly answering like this to a fan hint,  I just keep wondering again and again, how in the world he even thought possible last August that he would be able to finish the book by November (then) deadline. He obviously had at least good 9 months to a year worth of work left on the book, not 2-3 months worth

The most worrying is that George after announcing cancelling con appearances and side projects "to concentrate on Twow" a year ago, then botching all those deadlines he sat himself and writting a sorry post about that, is resuming attending every event around and doing anthologies related stuff, like if the work was done, and is now calling "nonsense" the idea he could announce the book is finally finished.

I guess he's suffering a new big writer block so big he sees no reason to avoid distractions anymore as he was not advancing anyway, while also feeling very guilty for this which made him react in this aggressive way

[kissdbyfire]

59 minutes ago, Lord Freypie said:

The most worrying is that George after announcing cancelling con appearances and side projects "to concentrate on Twow" a year ago, then botching all those deadlines he sat himself and writting a sorry post about that, is resuming attending every event around and doing anthologies related stuff, like if the work was done, and is now calling "nonsense" the idea he could announce the book is finally finished.

I guess he's suffering a new big writer block so big he sees no reason to avoid distractions anymore as he was not advancing anyway, while also feeling very guilty for this which made him react in this aggressive way

Martin was GoH at Balticon, and now there's WorldCon in Kansas City; both are appearances he committed to years ago, long before he decided to cancel other appearances.

[sifth]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Martin was GoH at Balticon, and now there's WorldCon in Kansas City; both are appearances he committed to years ago, long before he decided to cancel other appearances.

He also recently added another convention onto his calendar for November.

[T and A]

I replied yesterday, at this particular comment GRRM has made (the "nonesence" speech).  I just wrote that there is no need to excuse, because thats a question everyone of us wants to know, but are afraid to ask. The comment wasnt allowed on the blog. I didn't offene d GRRM, didn't said nothing else. 

I have had big respect for this man. But since last year and particulary this year, my sympathy for this man is at Zero. I had last year a big argument on this forum with other people, where I said that GRRM does not give a Shit about his fans, and I was offended by nearly everyone on this Forum. But I will say it again: GRRM doesn't give a shit about us. 

[Yin & Yang]

I'm at a point now where I actually outright refuse to read a series that hasn't been finished based purely on GRRM. 

Its bloody ridiculous that a man whose job it is to write books can take 5-6 years to write one book. 

And I'm starting to wonder what the point is. Yeah he'll finish TWOW eventually, but he'll need at least two more books to end the series. There is no way the series will be ended in just one more book after TWOW. 

[sifth]

16 minutes ago, Yin & Yang said:

I'm at a point now where I actually outright refuse to read a series that hasn't been finished based purely on GRRM. 

Its bloody ridiculous that a man whose job it is to write books can take 5-6 years to write one book. 

And I'm starting to wonder what the point is. Yeah he'll finish TWOW eventually, but he'll need at least two more books to end the series. There is no way the series will be ended in just one more book after TWOW. 

You best watch out, the "you can't rush art" crew will be in here soon. I'm starting to get sick of that excuse to be honest, but at the end of the day there's nothing we can do. GRRM seems like a great guy and the type of guy who would make a really great friend, but his work ethic leaves much to be desired. He reminds me of the manga author Yoshihiro Togashi, who usually works for 3 months and then goes on holiday for the rest of the year.

[House Cambodia]

1 minute ago, sifth said:

You best watch out, the "you can't rush art" crew will be in here soon. I'm starting to get sick of that excuse to be honest, but at the end of the day there's nothing we can do. GRRM seems like a great guy and type of guy who would make a really friend, but his work ethic leaves much to be desired. He reminds me of the manga author Yoshihiro Togashi, who usually works for 3 months and then goes on holiday for the rest of the year.

I'm unapologetically in that camp. I wouldn't blame him if after 25 years he's getting bored and wants to write other stuff, but I don't think that's the reason anyway. Thanks to ASOIAF I've gotten into fantasy literature for the first time since Tolkein in my teens. I'm working my way through the supposed classics and lot of it is great stuff, but none compare to ASOIAF in one key respect. It's not so much that the ASOIAF  plot is complex and involves many characters - others do that - it's the LEVELS of complexity, the subtle symbolism, motifs, themes that run as fine threads through all the volumes.

I think every damn paragraph he writes needs to be cross-checked for references to prophesies, meals, clothing, eye-colouring and so on and so forth. And there are so many fans that can now recite every damn word of the saga he must be paranoid over making one tiny error so needs to re-edit a gazillion times. In other words, the fault is not with Martin, it's with us, the readers with our high-expectations. So we just need to suck it up and be patient. In the end most of us would rather have a perfect product to pour over than the book equivalent of a rushed computer game full of bugs.

[sifth]

7 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

I'm unapologetically in that camp. I wouldn't blame him if after 25 years he's getting bored and wants to write other stuff, but I don't think that's the reason anyway. Thanks to ASOIAF I've gotten into fantasy literature for the first time since Tolkein in my teens. I'm working my way through the supposed classics and lot of it is great stuff, but none compare to ASOIAF in one key respect. It's not so much that the ASOIAF  plot is complex and involves many characters - others do that - it's the LEVELS of complexity, the subtle symbolism, motifs, themes that run as fine threads through all the volumes.

I think every damn paragraph he writes needs to be cross-checked for references to prophesies, meals, clothing, eye-colouring and so on and so forth. And there are so many fans that can now recite every damn word of the saga he must be paranoid over making one tiny error so needs to re-edit a gazillion times. In other words, the fault is not with Martin, it's with us, the readers with our high-expectations. So we just need to suck it up and be patient. In the end most of us would rather have a perfect product to pour over than the book equivalent of a rushed computer game full of bugs.

I would agree with you, but I don't think things exactly improved for the series once the writing pace was slowed down. AFFC and ADWD I honestly feel are much weaker than his first 3 books. GRRM is also not really writing a lot of other stuff these days, it's mostly editing and helping out other authors; which is a very nice thing to do in and of it self, like I said GRRM seems like a really nice guy. It's only his commitment to finish the series that I question, I mean for example HBO is about to spoil some form of his ending for us and he already admitted that season 6 of the show had spoilers in it.

[House Cambodia]

He seems to be keen on more Dunc & Eggs stories, and a history of the Targaryens.

The plot certainly slowed down in the last 2 books (which were really one split into 2). It's subjective of course, but I didn't feel the quality was less, just different. I think that maybe a lot of show fans will be disappointed with TWOW because they will have little interest in the Dorne, Aegon, Iron Born, Stannis storylines that were chopped out of the show. He's into a bit of a no-win territory now.

[sifth]

3 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

He seems to be keen on more Dunc & Eggs stories, and a history of the Targaryens.

The plot certainly slowed down in the last 2 books (which were really one split into 2). It's subjective of course, but I didn't feel the quality was less, just different. I think that maybe a lot of show fans will be disappointed with TWOW because they will have little interest in the Dorne, Aegon, Iron Born, Stannis storylines that were chopped out of the show. He's into a bit of a no-win territory now.

Ohh don't get me started on how much I hate what the show did with Stannis, the Iron Born and Dorne..................Aegon however I can take or leave, just because he seems so random and comes out of nowhere (not counting a vague prophecy). I mean I guess Aegon is needed, because without him you have nothing for the Dorne characters to do, like the tv show proved when they ruined all of them, mostly for shock value. Sadly though, I think most of these characters are just bit players, which is why the show removed them. Vic for example I don't think is long for this world, as much as I love the guy and Ser Barry as well, sad as it is to say.

[ebevan91]

Since people were told not to ask about TWoW at that event, then someone should've asked about ADoS instead just to troll.