A bowl of brown

The monkeys growing?

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I don't think George is gaining any new reader by becoming legendary as the writer who doesn't deliver anything in time, with more and more people believing his book serie is likely to stay unfinished. Hey there are even South Park episodes about his procastination.

Imo if he could finish Twow yesterday he would have, it was certainly not his plan to let the show pass the books. He's just suffering writers blocks again, after a long period where he had too much distractions to advance at decent pace (personnally I'd blame Sad Puppies for Twow not being released in 2016, GRRM writing pages and pages about Hugos last year, just when he was finally supposed to concentrate on completing Twow condemned the book).

 

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I am reading less and less these days, just recycling my favourite books and I will never again, with R'hllor as my witness, read any part of a series that is not yet finished. To all those authors out there, take heed, I can't be the only one.

Let's put it this way, I am likely to buy the next (3 I think) books just so the series is finished on my book shelf, and I will likely read them as well, but if the show gives us the ending and I don't like the ending...well...ughh.

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10 hours ago, sifth said:

I'd imagine he has more than just the sample chapters completed, when it comes to left over stuff from ADWD. GRRM probably completed both battles, before he stopped writing ADWD.

Hey, that's right! He did say that both battles were cut. That could be as few as 4 chapters (so 1 year to completion) and as many as 8 (6-8 months to completion). That brings slightly more optimism to my crackpot calculations.:P

((Repeat of disclaimer to those who hadn't read my comment further up thread: These are NOT serious estimates. I'm just playing with GRRM's "3 chapters in 6 months" remark for the sake of levity as there was clearly exaggeration with his statement of Stephen King's writing progress. In fact, I pray that as George overstated King's output, he understated his own.))

On another note, damn it, I WANT to see the video of that interview. Two of my heroes in one room!

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1 hour ago, Annarkie said:

Hey, that's right! He did say that both battles were cut. That could be as few as 4 chapters (so 1 year to completion) and as many as 8 (6-8 months to completion). That brings slightly more optimism to my crackpot calculations.:P

((Repeat of disclaimer to those who hadn't read my comment further up thread: These are NOT serious estimates. I'm just playing with GRRM's "3 chapters in 6 months" remark for the sake of levity as there was clearly exaggeration with his statement of Stephen King's writing progress. In fact, I pray that as George overstated King's output, he understated his own.))

On another note, damn it, I WANT to see the video of that interview. Two of my heroes in one room!

Here yea go buddy.

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Yay! Too bad I'm stuck at work. 3 1/2 more hours until I can fangasm over this. :D

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Wouldn't be shocked if the same thing happens for WINDS, that happened for ADWD. The last 200 pages or so will be rolled-over to the next book. 

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On 22.6.2016 at 7:46 PM, sifth said:

Having the ending already spoiled, I doubt it. Don't forget, GRRM has already told D & D all of the endings for the major characters. It's the small guys like Bronn and Dolorous Edd who's endings he hasn't planned out yet. So the tv series is going to show us a different route to how Bran, Dany, Tyrion, Jon Snow and every other major characters story comes to an end. GRRM's books will show us this as well, the path will just be different. I can already see fewer people reading the books, because they already know the ending.

 

Also don't forget that some people just don't like to read. I have 3 friends who love the show, but have never finished any of the books. One of these friends has tried to read AGoT's, but told me he was put off by GRRM's writing and felt too descriptive at times.

and i have a different example in my campus, we started watching shows in a group, we were only 7 guys now more thn 35 of us watch it together and most of them werent book fans but after hearing from us almost all of them started reading books or listening to them especially after critising the season 5 and how much it sucked, once we explained them that the books are different and like how mance lives and stuff like that... they all started with the books, point being how much the story is spoiled, it doesnt matter much, show is still getting popular and as much as it will become popular it will also get critisized for plot holes and the more it gets critisized the more ppl get interested in reading the books.... 

Remember grrm is not done telling the stories, after WoW or asoiaf he might start work on dunk and eggs and fire and bloos series so he will continue after that for a while and the longer he is in the news the more books he will be selling, as i said visit grrm not a blog and read his blogs you will see what i mean..

On 22.6.2016 at 7:52 PM, Masha said:

Yes, and D&D would be upset with him too for his delay. Because I believe that while they are adopting his books and had to change some storylines, they didn't really wanted to be forced to make up most of the plots in the ending on their own and be in that situation, and thats why GRRM had to give them the ending in order to assure them.

As for marketing. I know a lot of GOT fans who never bothered to read the book. I believe there are good 40% GOT TV fans who only learned about the books from the show and still haven't cracked open a book. Before season 6 they were really desperate to find out more, if the book came out even two weeks before the premiere, a good portion of them would have bought the book to find out. That would have been a LOT of new readers.

So yes, the original book readers who started with the book and went into the show, will read his book regardless of release, and yes many book readers who got into reading after watching the show and found out that they loved books more will read it too.

But there are lot of book readers who first watched the show and then got into the book in order to see the original and get spoilers will not read the books because they are late. And once show is over, many of them will not buy the books at all because once show is over the interest minimizes immediately. It happened many times with many books, comics books and adoptations for TV and movies before and it will happen again. Once the show/movie series is announced and is showing, a popularity spike on the books starts, however once the show is done, the books loose a lot of popularity and selling drops off substantially.  

 And yes, it will put the book into great best-seller list again and sell a lot perhaps breaking a lot of its own records, but not as much as could have if the book released BEFORE season 6.

 

D&D can be upset but grrm doesnt have to listen to D&D, he has an excuse that he has a way ot writing and D&D need to understand that or they can go and eff themselves.....

I can also tell that there is some sort of struggle going on between d&d and grrm, grrm might be pissed at them for story telling and stuff from season 1....

Also let me give you an example with another one of the best written stories of all time 

The lord of the ring books came out decades ago and it was one of the MOST translated book around the world.... i saw it once in a village in a very backward asian country... i mean LOTR books were or are everywhere yet movies still went over for billions even though majority of ppl knew how it would end i mean everythng was spoiled to them yet ppl watched it and many ppl who didnt read the books before started reading the books and you can google it that during lotr film era and after the release of lotr and the hobbit the books purchases very as high as ever.... 

so yes there might be ppl who doesnt have patience to read the books but these ppl are always like that e.g they wont read the book even if they dont know the story, they will always try to avoid it and others will always appreciate the good story and some like me will read same book many times so yes i dont think season 6 harm WoW books, it will only increase its popularity...

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2 hours ago, zalim said:

Remember grrm is not done telling the stories, after WoW or asoiaf he might start work on dunk and eggs and fire and bloos series so he will continue after that for a while and the longer he is in the news the more books he will be selling, as i said visit grrm not a blog and read his blogs you will see what i mean..

D&D can be upset but grrm doesnt have to listen to D&D, he has an excuse that he has a way ot writing and D&D need to understand that or they can go and eff themselves.....

I can also tell that there is some sort of struggle going on between d&d and grrm, grrm might be pissed at them for story telling and stuff from season 1....

Also let me give you an example with another one of the best written stories of all time 

The lord of the ring books came out decades ago and it was one of the MOST translated book around the world.... i saw it once in a village in a very backward asian country... i mean LOTR books were or are everywhere yet movies still went over for billions even though majority of ppl knew how it would end i mean everythng was spoiled to them yet ppl watched it and many ppl who didnt read the books before started reading the books and you can google it that during lotr film era and after the release of lotr and the hobbit the books purchases very as high as ever.... 

so yes there might be ppl who doesnt have patience to read the books but these ppl are always like that e.g they wont read the book even if they dont know the story, they will always try to avoid it and others will always appreciate the good story and some like me will read same book many times so yes i dont think season 6 harm WoW books, it will only increase its popularity...

#1 What are you referring to as Bloos series?

#2 What GRRM might be upset at them from season 1?? Killing a minor Dothraki character? Thats it? Thats enough to upset GRRM in order to hold a grudge toward D&D?  It was as faithful adaptation as I have EVER seen on TV.  

First of all, I don't think GRRM is that thin-thinned as you describe, otherwise he wouldn't be able to work with TV/Film industry at all. Because there is no such thing as 100% faithful adaption, and if there are some that exists, the end result is usually lower quality. Unless he is planning on doing wholesale adaption himself and writing scripts for ALL episodes, he has to rely on show creators, who adopt the series using his recommendations and THEIR OWN input. If writer is not willing to do it, there will be no good quality producers will be willing to take on his projects on, because they also want/need to put their own vision in. Remove that option from them, you take out most of good ones and are left with ghost-writers who are no good. The best a writer can hope for is to find a producer who is sharing his vision and understanding of the show and for GRRM D&D were the very best of the bunch.

Secondly, without D&D taking his project on and doing such great job of it, the popularity of the show would not have exploded that fast with such consistently great critical reviews. So no, D&D are as considerate of GRRM delays as they can be considering that he is NEVER going to finish the books (TDOS) by the final season, and no, he cannot tell them to go eff themselves because thats part of the business to deal with it.

#3 Lord of the Rings books and movies are NOT comparable at all. TLOTR became a phenomena by itself without any movies 40 years ago! Its has been consistently popular and bestselling before any movies were done.  The best thing to compare Grrm books is to Harry Potter phenomena, and GRRM books BEFORE HBO series NEVER reached TLOTR level, HBO bumped up the book sales for his book by about 10x  - see chart: 

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dd7d67b5bbeec4f59e47376022e4bbd0.  As you can see it falls off by 3rd season because unlike tolkien books who together end up at around 1200-1300 pages equal to size to just one of latest ASOIAF books, most people attempt 1st GRRM book and never manage to finish it. You overestimate number of book readers

So right after end of 5th season, GRRM had a strong chance to bump up his book sales to 1st season levels because EVERYBODY wanted to know, but now....

 

 

 

Edited by Masha

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9 hours ago, zalim said:

and i have a different example in my campus, we started watching shows in a group, we were only 7 guys now more thn 35 of us watch it together and most of them werent book fans but after hearing from us almost all of them started reading books or listening to them especially after critising the season 5 and how much it sucked, once we explained them that the books are different and like how mance lives and stuff like that... they all started with the books, point being how much the story is spoiled, it doesnt matter much, show is still getting popular and as much as it will become popular it will also get critisized for plot holes and the more it gets critisized the more ppl get interested in reading the books.... 

Remember grrm is not done telling the stories, after WoW or asoiaf he might start work on dunk and eggs and fire and bloos series so he will continue after that for a while and the longer he is in the news the more books he will be selling, as i said visit grrm not a blog and read his blogs you will see what i mean..

 

 

He also has his final book to write, a Dream of Spring. Also my friends never once noticed a drop in quality, though some of them did role their eyes at the Arya stuff a few week's ago. Have you not seen the ratings for this show, there over the roof right now, also the show recently won an Emmy. Sure hard core fans like you and me have issues with the show, but for the most part the causal fans don't seem to or just don't care.

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12 minutes ago, sifth said:

 

He also has his final book to write, a Dream of Spring. Also my friends never once noticed a drop in quality, though some of them did role their eyes at the Arya stuff a few week's ago. Have you not seen the ratings for this show, there over the roof right now, also the show recently won an Emmy. Sure hard core fans like you and me have issues with the show, but for the most part the causal fans don't seem to or just don't care.

Which Arya stuff? I rolled my eyes at Tyrion a few times, powerful warrior that he is.

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2 minutes ago, Whitering said:

Which Arya stuff? I rolled my eyes at Tyrion a few times, powerful warrior that he is.

When she was stabbed 3 times and was running and jumping around the next episode.

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12 hours ago, Masha said:

#1 What are you referring to as Bloos series?

#2 What GRRM might be upset at them from season 1?? Killing a minor Dothraki character? Thats it? Thats enough to upset GRRM in order to hold a grudge toward D&D?  It was as faithful adaptation as I have EVER seen on TV.  

First of all, I don't think GRRM is that thin-thinned as you describe, otherwise he wouldn't be able to work with TV/Film industry at all. Because there is no such thing as 100% faithful adaption, and if there are some that exists, the end result is usually lower quality. Unless he is planning on doing wholesale adaption himself and writing scripts for ALL episodes, he has to rely on show creators, who adopt the series using his recommendations and THEIR OWN input. If writer is not willing to do it, there will be no good quality producers will be willing to take on his projects on, because they also want/need to put their own vision in. Remove that option from them, you take out most of good ones and are left with ghost-writers who are no good. The best a writer can hope for is to find a producer who is sharing his vision and understanding of the show and for GRRM D&D were the very best of the bunch.

Secondly, without D&D taking his project on and doing such great job of it, the popularity of the show would not have exploded that fast with such consistently great critical reviews. So no, D&D are as considerate of GRRM delays as they can be considering that he is NEVER going to finish the books (TDOS) by the final season, and no, he cannot tell them to go eff themselves because thats part of the business to deal with it.

#3 Lord of the Rings books and movies are NOT comparable at all. TLOTR became a phenomena by itself without any movies 40 years ago! Its has been consistently popular and bestselling before any movies were done.  The best thing to compare Grrm books is to Harry Potter phenomena, and GRRM books BEFORE HBO series NEVER reached TLOTR level, HBO bumped up the book sales for his book by about 10x  - see chart: 

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dd7d67b5bbeec4f59e47376022e4bbd0.  As you can see it falls off by 3rd season because unlike tolkien books who together end up at around 1200-1300 pages equal to size to just one of latest ASOIAF books, most people attempt 1st GRRM book and never manage to finish it. You overestimate number of book readers

So right after end of 5th season, GRRM had a strong chance to bump up his book sales to 1st season levels because EVERYBODY wanted to know, but now....

 

 

 

how long have you been following grrms work for? 

have you read his biography on his blog? 

have you read his work on the thousand worlds? and wildcards? 

He would not make direct comment about D&D but i have known him for all those decades and if he is not happy with something he mentions it no matter how SMALL or big the character is and the latest evidence of that was eurons chapter and before that ariannas chapter, when they messed up both best story lines grrm posted stuff from books related to those storylines...

YES they are compareable because grrm always compare his work to tolkiens, i mean there barely is an interview where he is not trying to compare the 2 worlds and that is why i am comparing it aswell.... lotr was HUGE but the FACT (google it) is after the release of the movies the BOOKS sales went up and the new generation started reading it and taking part in lore and theories... lotr wikia is an example of that..

GoT is one of the best tv shows on TV right now but it is not the best adaption of fictional book, you need to watch expanse and read the expanse series, there budgest is no where close to got but the story telling is amazing, i know i know expanse is once again not as large as got or doesnt have so many characters but just to point out that best adapted tv isnt GoT, it is a different universe of GoT with different timeline.

Also once again i will refer you to grrms personal blog, you will see the success he is having right now, i believe he can go on for years without releasing WoW.

 

Lol you are very wrong, grrm can say eff yourself to D&D because the only own what has already been released related to Asoiaf (dunk and egg, fire and blood, rougue prince etc not included). They cant force grrm to write before season end it is not part of the contract so if grrm says i will finish the books in 20 years, there is NOTHING D&D can do about it, they have said that themself.

5 hours ago, sifth said:

 

He also has his final book to write, a Dream of Spring. Also my friends never once noticed a drop in quality, though some of them did role their eyes at the Arya stuff a few week's ago. Have you not seen the ratings for this show, there over the roof right now, also the show recently won an Emmy. Sure hard core fans like you and me have issues with the show, but for the most part the causal fans don't seem to or just don't care.

Yes there MIGHT be a book after that if he decided to expand it, as he said he is more like a gardner when it comes to story writing, 3 books became 7 and 7 can become 8 so yeah you never know with grrm.

Well then they are not paying attention, the latest episode was FULL of plot holes, the action was good but it was full of plot holes, if they are not seeing those that means they arent actually paying much attention. There are atleast 5 major and more thn 20 minor plot holes in episode 9 alone and dont get me started on the whole season 6 or season 5 for that matter and believe me those problems were noticed by the my campus mates and we discuss them afterwards, i have to explain the book plot to them with each episode and all, many are too stubborn to read the books yet they ask me ok how is it related to books so i have to like lecture them on book stuff.

Ratings are high because GoT is the BEST show on tv right now at this very moment, it is expensive, it has good actors but the writers are struggling and that can been. They are missing that edge which came with grrms writing one of the most disgusting blunder was tower of joy.. in the show jaimie was reading about Ser Arthur Dayne and on that KG book we had a glimpse of the read battle that took place and it was similar to the battle that happend in the book with 3 KG knights fought at ToJ yet what did we see? lol i mean it tells you that D&D are struggling big time.

Emmys were also given to the shittiest shows int he past so i dont give emmys any big consideration, i only want to see common sense in the show which is clearly lacking since season 5 and season 6.

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8 hours ago, zalim said:

how long have you been following grrms work for? 

have you read his biography on his blog? 

have you read his work on the thousand worlds? and wildcards? 

He would not make direct comment about D&D but i have known him for all those decades and if he is not happy with something he mentions it no matter how SMALL or big the character is and the latest evidence of that was eurons chapter and before that ariannas chapter, when they messed up both best story lines grrm posted stuff from books related to those storylines...

YES they are compareable because grrm always compare his work to tolkiens, i mean there barely is an interview where he is not trying to compare the 2 worlds and that is why i am comparing it aswell.... lotr was HUGE but the FACT (google it) is after the release of the movies the BOOKS sales went up and the new generation started reading it and taking part in lore and theories... lotr wikia is an example of that..

GoT is one of the best tv shows on TV right now but it is not the best adaption of fictional book, you need to watch expanse and read the expanse series, there budgest is no where close to got but the story telling is amazing, i know i know expanse is once again not as large as got or doesnt have so many characters but just to point out that best adapted tv isnt GoT, it is a different universe of GoT with different timeline.

Also once again i will refer you to grrms personal blog, you will see the success he is having right now, i believe he can go on for years without releasing WoW.

 

Lol you are very wrong, grrm can say eff yourself to D&D because the only own what has already been released related to Asoiaf (dunk and egg, fire and blood, rougue prince etc not included). They cant force grrm to write before season end it is not part of the contract so if grrm says i will finish the books in 20 years, there is NOTHING D&D can do about it, they have said that themself.

Yes there MIGHT be a book after that if he decided to expand it, as he said he is more like a gardner when it comes to story writing, 3 books became 7 and 7 can become 8 so yeah you never know with grrm.

Well then they are not paying attention, the latest episode was FULL of plot holes, the action was good but it was full of plot holes, if they are not seeing those that means they arent actually paying much attention. There are atleast 5 major and more thn 20 minor plot holes in episode 9 alone and dont get me started on the whole season 6 or season 5 for that matter and believe me those problems were noticed by the my campus mates and we discuss them afterwards, i have to explain the book plot to them with each episode and all, many are too stubborn to read the books yet they ask me ok how is it related to books so i have to like lecture them on book stuff.

Ratings are high because GoT is the BEST show on tv right now at this very moment, it is expensive, it has good actors but the writers are struggling and that can been. They are missing that edge which came with grrms writing one of the most disgusting blunder was tower of joy.. in the show jaimie was reading about Ser Arthur Dayne and on that KG book we had a glimpse of the read battle that took place and it was similar to the battle that happend in the book with 3 KG knights fought at ToJ yet what did we see? lol i mean it tells you that D&D are struggling big time.

Emmys were also given to the shittiest shows int he past so i dont give emmys any big consideration, i only want to see common sense in the show which is clearly lacking since season 5 and season 6.

 

Almost everything you said is your opinion on things and not fact. You want GRRM to be unhappy with the show, but do you have any actual proof. In fact according his his Not Blog he was insanely happy the night he won his Emmy. I can send you the link if you'd like.

A Dream of Spring is the 7th book in his series not it's 8th. Unless he says otherwise I'm not going to assume any hyperbole that their will be an 8th book, when the only real proof is fan assumption.

Also GRRM himself wonders why he gets compared to Tolkien so often. Even though he considers it an honor and loves Tolkien's books, he's fully admitted his series is very different. Tolkien wrote things in a very black and white manner, while GRRM writes in different shades of grey. Tolkien wrote the characters in Lord of the Ring's as people destined for greatness, like Aragorn and Gandalf, while GRRM writes his heroes as normal people, who are forced to become heroes because the world they live in is forcing them to do so. Magic is very natural in the Lord of the Rings, while in GRRM's books magic is all but forgotten from the world and much of the magic left in the world is dark and scary on some levels

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7 hours ago, sifth said:

 

Almost everything you said is your opinion on things and not fact. You want GRRM to be unhappy with the show, but do you have any actual proof. In fact according his his Not Blog he was insanely happy the night he won his Emmy. I can send you the link if you'd like.

A Dream of Spring is the 7th book in his series not it's 8th. Unless he says otherwise I'm not going to assume any hyperbole that their will be an 8th book, when the only real proof is fan assumption.

Also GRRM himself wonders why he gets compared to Tolkien so often. Even though he considers it an honor and loves Tolkien's books, he's fully admitted his series is very different. Tolkien wrote things in a very black and white manner, while GRRM writes in different shades of grey. Tolkien wrote the characters in Lord of the Ring's as people destined for greatness, like Aragorn and Gandalf, while GRRM writes his heroes as normal people, who are forced to become heroes because the world they live in is forcing them to do so. Magic is very natural in the Lord of the Rings, while in GRRM's books magic is all but forgotten from the world and much of the magic left in the world is dark and scary on some levels

This

 

 

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He gets compared to Tolkien so much because that is the only other fantasy line that went mainstream. Most people don't know about a ton of other great novels. 

The popularity of GOT came from the first two seasons where they were largely tuned to the "real" story. Then it began to go downhill and out on its own. People got addicted and it was proclaimed such amazing TV, that if you weren't able to talk about it over the water cooler, you were left out. To me, that is the only reason people are swallowing this nonsense that is being put out now. D$D don't have the story to lean back on anymore and they are failing miserably. 

And why wouldn't GRRM be ecstatic? It's a HUGE paycheck. It has gotten to the point where ASOIAF is low on the priority list because he is still making money whether he finishes or not. 

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7 hours ago, Ninerings said:

He gets compared to Tolkien so much because that is the only other fantasy line that went mainstream. Most people don't know about a ton of other great novels. 

The popularity of GOT came from the first two seasons where they were largely tuned to the "real" story. Then it began to go downhill and out on its own. People got addicted and it was proclaimed such amazing TV, that if you weren't able to talk about it over the water cooler, you were left out. To me, that is the only reason people are swallowing this nonsense that is being put out now. D$D don't have the story to lean back on anymore and they are failing miserably. 

And why wouldn't GRRM be ecstatic? It's a HUGE paycheck. It has gotten to the point where ASOIAF is low on the priority list because he is still making money whether he finishes or not. 

Agree with your first points, but not last 2. As deeply flawed as the show is, mainly re plot holes, visually it's still probably the best show on TV, so I can see why the non-book-reading casuals are ecstatic about it. And I think you're being deeply unfair to GRRM. He's rolling in cash sure, but this has dominated his life for a quarter of a century - it's been more his life than real life has been. I'm sure he has a massive emotional commitment to it. That's WHY it's taking so long - if he cared only about the money he'd just roll 'em off the press and rake it in; he isn't doing that because he wants his craft to be as perfect as possible.

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On 25.6.2016 at 2:19 PM, sifth said:

 

Almost everything you said is your opinion on things and not fact. You want GRRM to be unhappy with the show, but do you have any actual proof. In fact according his his Not Blog he was insanely happy the night he won his Emmy. I can send you the link if you'd like.

A Dream of Spring is the 7th book in his series not it's 8th. Unless he says otherwise I'm not going to assume any hyperbole that their will be an 8th book, when the only real proof is fan assumption.

Also GRRM himself wonders why he gets compared to Tolkien so often. Even though he considers it an honor and loves Tolkien's books, he's fully admitted his series is very different. Tolkien wrote things in a very black and white manner, while GRRM writes in different shades of grey. Tolkien wrote the characters in Lord of the Ring's as people destined for greatness, like Aragorn and Gandalf, while GRRM writes his heroes as normal people, who are forced to become heroes because the world they live in is forcing them to do so. Magic is very natural in the Lord of the Rings, while in GRRM's books magic is all but forgotten from the world and much of the magic left in the world is dark and scary on some levels

you might be on wrong forum mate, this forum exists so that ppl can share their OPINION, facts are less most of the forum is based on OPINIONS and THEORIES, i never said it was a fact, it was always an assumption and opinion, in my opinion delaying the books will be more profitable for him and to back this OPINION of mine i referred to a fact which is LOTR trilogy, after the success of the movie, hardcore fans were still not very happy and they told ppl to read the books, that is the reason LOTR boob revival happened few years ago and as i said if you can use google please use it to find your facts if you cant use google just say it i will find it for you all the stats (tip from me visit LOTR WIKIA forums)

It is  not fair to say TOLKIENS wrote things very black and white manner, tolkien wrote THE LOTR and THE HOBBIT in very black and white manner and if you read Silmarillion, you will realise why the HOBBIT and LOTR seemed to black and white,

Feanor and his sons are the major characters in silmarillions yet they are very very grey characters, same goes for dwarves  history..

LOTR and THE HOBBIT was written that way because of that time period, look when those books were published, the world was not like ours today when we are all soo closely connected, it was very blck and white world, and Germany or Nazi germany or whatever you want to call it were the clearly evil ppl, there was no grey when it came to germany in the mind of rest of the world in those times, it was later revealed that the germans were not all the same but what i am i trying to say it the world was made that way and if you read the history of lotr and hobbit universe you realised that black and white stuff make alot more sense and you will realise that it isnt as black and white as you might believe because you have been misinformed.

 

Also souron, or soruman werent evil when they first came to arda (earth), they were angelic being which were corrupted by power, the same thing that corrupts good ppl in got turn them into evil and there are characters who started evil but turned good and some remain in grey area.... i can mentioned more greyish character in lotr and hobbit thn you see or read in GoT. 
The story at its core is about children of god struggling between good and evil... 

Grrm says that just how tolkiens shows that bad ppl look evil and good ppl look good in lotr but again NOT TRUE, the reason why ORCS look the way they look is explained in the books, they dont look bad because they are bad no they look bad because they were humans and elves who were tortured and turned into this form using black magic and initialy lived under the shadow of one of the most powerfull being on earth without seeing the sunlight... thn they were bred in a way that over thousands and thousands of years they became orcs, urukhai or goblins... 

they live and die for war, they dont know any other way  because they were never shown any other way, they were bred for 1 purpose and that was to kill on command and they were tought that human, elves and dwarfs are their natural enemies, in their PoW, morgoth, souron or saruman were the GODS and they were on the right side of things and humans, elves or dwarves were the evil enemy... they have society but it he controlled by power hungry beings like morgoth, souron or saruman so yes they were very much like the death squads of SS Germany who were handpicked to commit the most evil of crimes against humanity because they were tought that it is the right thing to do..

Just because GRRM claims the books to be too black and white doesnt mean he is correct, he is just 1 person with his opinion on the books, doesnt make it a fact, smeagol is another one of those characters struggling with good and evil while existing in greyish area.

Also Tolkiens himself wrote many stories and many like got with more grey characters thn black or white, his very first story is one of them.

I am one of those ppl who dont believe magic to be real in ASOIAF so yeah.

All i know is from his previous work (before asoiaf) and seeing what he is been upto now, in my opinion HE is not happy with GoT.

Edited by zalim

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On 6/22/2016 at 10:52 AM, Masha said:

 

 And yes, it will put the book into great best-seller list again and sell a lot perhaps breaking a lot of its own records, but not as much as could have if the book released BEFORE season 6.

 

I know several people, or have had informal discussions with people, who have already said they refuse to buy his book and will likely pirate the book. I have also seen this sentiment on numerous websites and article/blog comment sections.  I am not suggesting that this is the right course of action, but at the same time he has angered a lot of people by not getting the work done. 

 

 

I will buy it because I like books. But I would be curious to see how many people begin pirating the book to their devices. 

Edited by JonisHenryTudor

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On 6/23/2016 at 8:39 PM, PCK said:

Wouldn't be shocked if the same thing happens for WINDS, that happened for ADWD. The last 200 pages or so will be rolled-over to the next book. 

Oh yay another both with no satisfying end....or resolution of any sort...

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Well ppl will pirate the books no matter the release date...

i think WoW with tie up alot of loose ends and will take us into another direction...i still think there might just be another book after dream of spring or somehting...

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