The monkeys growing?

[Mehmet Eren]

I also expect plotline to come end this book and I hope there will 7 book toatal i cant wait more then seven that aside It seem GRRM will finish series in seven book if there is too many pages they can publish in two part turkish edition of book 4 and 5 punlished like that I think we will see lots of war other winter and some of the POV seems like they are going to die in winds of winter 

[sifth]

1 hour ago, T and A said:

At first, I want to say that I don't want to offend anyone and if someone may take my post personaly I apologize hereby :-).

At this point, I don't give a sh*** about GRRM anymore. He is trolling with his loyal fans (to whom I included myself until now) for years now. He made millions of Dollars with the books AND WITH THE SHOW. We all bought the books and watched or watch the show and made him rich and famous, and now he doesn't even want to be asked when the next book will be finished. Now I don't know if some people on this forum have read ONLY Books from GRRM, if that is the case, I can assure you, that other authors are way more responsible with their fans and don't act like him.  

And as for the Show: You people do know that he is a producer of the Show do you? He knows everything that the Show is gonna do, and which story is gonna tell and has full controll over it. You think that D&D and HBO would pay a Man Millions of Dollars, just to tell a total different story? C'mon man, get real. No, the Story will be at the end the same. When such a massive product - as Game of Thrones is - is produced, both parties sign a contract. They both agree to fullfill the contract. GRRM signed that he will tell them the whole story and they will pay him a lot of money for being able to make it and show it on television. As usual, most authors keep the right to be able to controll what is gonna be shown on the show and what not, and which direction it will take. I am sure GRRM didn't just sold all the rights to D&D without being able to control it. So everything that is shown, is to GRRM will. If he says something different, he is lying to make sure book purist will buy his books or to calm these people down. 

But what GRRM  is doing right now, with the show and the books and the "release" of chapters written years before is just business: 

He tells everything to D&D, and makes millions of Dollars out of the show. On the other side, he want's to keep the expectations and the excitement for the books alive and very high. So he releases chapters about characters that are taking diffeerent paths in the show just to say "Hey look, you aren't spoiled from the show. See, Arianne is not in the show and her chapter is super interesting. The book will be soooo different." .He just adopted a two-pronged aproach. But he will never criticize the show, because at the end of the day IT'S HIS SHOW. Of course the book will diverge from the show, as is every book that was made into a movie (e.g. Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter just to name a few). That has nothing to do that the books aren't finished. It's just that Television is another format than books, and some storys that sounds great in the books are boring to show on television (Like te enourmosly complex story in Dorne). Everybody, including GRRM, knows that. He is not pissed about the show. Everything happens the way he want's it. And we (including myself) buy it. .

 

Well yea, I doubt he's upset with the show as well. Especially after it just won him an Emmy. You'd have to be a dam fool to hate a show after that.

[Ser Biscuit]

On 5/14/2016 at 5:04 AM, T and A said:

At first, I want to say that I don't want to offend anyone and if someone may take my post personaly I apologize hereby :-).

At this point, I don't give a sh*** about GRRM anymore. He is trolling with his loyal fans (to whom I included myself until now) for years now. He made millions of Dollars with the books AND WITH THE SHOW. We all bought the books and watched or watch the show and made him rich and famous, and now he doesn't even want to be asked when the next book will be finished. Now I don't know if some people on this forum have read ONLY Books from GRRM, if that is the case, I can assure you, that other authors are way more responsible with their fans and don't act like him.  

And as for the Show: You people do know that he is a producer of the Show do you? He knows everything that the Show is gonna do, and which story is gonna tell and has full controll over it. You think that D&D and HBO would pay a Man Millions of Dollars, just to tell a total different story? C'mon man, get real. No, the Story will be at the end the same. When such a massive product - as Game of Thrones is - is produced, both parties sign a contract. They both agree to fullfill the contract. GRRM signed that he will tell them the whole story and they will pay him a lot of money for being able to make it and show it on television. As usual, most authors keep the right to be able to controll what is gonna be shown on the show and what not, and which direction it will take. I am sure GRRM didn't just sold all the rights to D&D without being able to control it. So everything that is shown, is to GRRM will. If he says something different, he is lying to make sure book purist will buy his books or to calm these people down. 

But what GRRM  is doing right now, with the show and the books and the "release" of chapters written years before is just business: 

He tells everything to D&D, and makes millions of Dollars out of the show. On the other side, he want's to keep the expectations and the excitement for the books alive and very high. So he releases chapters about characters that are taking diffeerent paths in the show just to say "Hey look, you aren't spoiled from the show. See, Arianne is not in the show and her chapter is super interesting. The book will be soooo different." .He just adopted a two-pronged aproach. But he will never criticize the show, because at the end of the day IT'S HIS SHOW. Of course the book will diverge from the show, as is every book that was made into a movie (e.g. Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter just to name a few). That has nothing to do that the books aren't finished. It's just that Television is another format than books, and some storys that sounds great in the books are boring to show on television (Like te enourmosly complex story in Dorne). Everybody, including GRRM, knows that. He is not pissed about the show. Everything happens the way he want's it. And we (including myself) buy it. .

 

GRRM has a producer's credit in title only. D&D and HBO run this show the way they want to, without any concern whether or not something they choose to do creatively annoys GRRM. He has made several backhanded shots at the show's decisions, and has also stressed several times on his Not A Blog that the show and books are different stories.

He hasn't written an ep on the show since early season 4, shows no interest in ever writing for it again. D&D don't seem to want any input from him either and have thrown shade his way as well, not to mention they have recently gone out of their way to spoil the audience about private book-related conversations they had with GRRM four years ago - twice. And the second time they did it was after the known and obvious backlash from book readers and GRRM himself about revealing book plots (after the Shireen burning episode).

And no, he didn't tell them "everything" about the book storylines four years ago, and thank goodness for that. Otherwise after every Inside The Episode they'll start off with "When George first told us about this..". What they know is limited to plans for major characters at that time GRRM spoke to them. GRRM might change his mind about the directions he takes those certain characters. And hopefully he never has another conversation with Dumb and Dumber again about his book storylines. They clearly have shown they are not to be trusted with book secrets.

GoT is not his show. GoT is a paycheck dished out by HBO and ran by two perverts who purposely butchers what could have been a great adaption. 99% of these show characters are completely different from their book counterparts. If GoT was GRRM's show a lot of things would have been done differently, and the show would be a hell of a lot better for it.

[aFeastForDragons]

On 14 May 2016 at 11:04 AM, T and A said:

And as for the Show: You people do know that he is a producer of the Show do you? He knows everything that the Show is gonna do, and which story is gonna tell and has full controll over it.

 

Wow, this is without a doubt the dumbest post I've ever seen on this forum. You just made up everything. If you actually believe all the crap you just wrote then yikes. How do people still think George has any involvement with the show. He's also incredibly unhappy with it. You could see that clearly back in S1 when he started complaining about them omitting parts and characters out. 

[sifth]

40 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said:

 

Wow, this is without a doubt the dumbest post I've ever seen on this forum. You just made up everything. If you actually believe all the crap you just wrote then yikes. How do people still think George has any involvement with the show. He's also incredibly unhappy with it. You could see that clearly back in S1 when he started complaining about them omitting parts and characters out. 

As posted above, I'm sure GRRM hates the show that won him an Emmy. That seems like a perfectly logical thing. I'm sure he hates most of the books that win him Hugo awards as well, lol

[aFeastForDragons]

Where are you getting hate from, did you even read my post?

[Arrow of the Morning]

Probably he is referring to the book progression. It is not done yet, but he is working on it. May be it means that he is in the final strech of the book, wherever it could means.

This chapter, like every other sample we already had, was supposed to be in Dance, but the editors cut. So I think it will not really spoil our read when Winds came out. The upcoming book will be huge, so it reveals not too much of the overall story.  

[sifth]

40 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said:

Where are you getting hate from, did you even read my post?

You said he was unhappy with the show in your post.

[Locksley]

2 hours ago, aFeastForDragons said:

 

Wow, this is without a doubt the dumbest post I've ever seen on this forum. You just made up everything. If you actually believe all the crap you just wrote then yikes. How do people still think George has any involvement with the show. He's also incredibly unhappy with it. You could see that clearly back in S1 when he started complaining about them omitting parts and characters out. 

Yeah, I think I remember him posting something on Not A Blog about how he told D&D not to have Khal Drogo kill Mago in season 1 because Mago would be back in the books eventually. That's the first example I can remember of GRRM showing he may have been frustrated.

 

[The Sword of the Evening]

A Dance with Dragons = Kong

The Winds of Winter = Son of Kong = monkey

monkey growing = Son of Kong growing = The Wind of Winter Growing

And someday..

[JonisHenryTudor]

9 hours ago, aFeastForDragons said:

 

He's also incredibly unhappy with it. You could see that clearly back in S1 when he started complaining about them omitting parts and characters out. 

Well if he spent less time doing this, he may have made more progress on Winds .

[aFeastForDragons]

12 hours ago, sifth said:

You said he was unhappy with the show in your post.

 

Being unhappy means hate? Thats not how it works. You need a dictionary or some basic english classes. 

[sifth]

26 minutes ago, aFeastForDragons said:

 

Being unhappy means hate? Thats not how it works. You need a dictionary or some basic english classes. 

Seems like apples and oranges. 

I still doubt the guy is "unhappy" to have finally won an Emmy.

[HairGrowsBack]

On 16/5/2016 at 3:44 PM, sifth said:

Seems like apples and oranges. 

I still doubt the guy is "unhappy" to have finally won an Emmy.

I just don't get the Emmy argument. Everyone knows, and George probably more than anyone, how little those awards mean. The show got the best Emmy money could buy, then what ? Doesn't make it remotely better, and afaik, GRRM wasn't involved in the episode that did won the Emmy, so he I doubt he gives a damn.

I'm convinced he's unhappy, because there is no way the man who spent all this time creating and developping this story and its characters would be fine with people trumping them into the dirt.

[sifth]

50 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

I just don't get the Emmy argument. Everyone knows, and George probably more than anyone, how little those awards mean. The show got the best Emmy money could buy, then what ? Doesn't make it remotely better, and afaik, GRRM wasn't involved in the episode that did won the Emmy, so he I doubt he gives a damn.

I'm convinced he's unhappy, because there is no way the man who spent all this time creating and developping this story and its characters would be fine with people trumping them into the dirt.

Yea, he just screams "unhappy" in this Not Blog post, after wining the Emmy.

[JonisHenryTudor]

12 hours ago, HairGrowsBack said:

 

I'm convinced he's unhappy, because there is no way the man who spent all this time creating and developping this story and its characters would be fine with people trumping them into the dirt.

Well to be fair:

 

a. He intended to make a series too large for TV. The consequence is a severe cutting and realigning of story-lines. I do, however, challenge people who are heavy critics of the adaption to write their own script under he same constraints that HBO levies. My guess is those scripts would fall similarly short. "Arm-chair" writers are the best....

 

b. He sold his work to the show. 

 

If he doesn't like the way it turned out, that is his problem. He could have denied access to the material and therefore no show. He knew that his series would not adapt seamlessly, yet he still chose to take the cash over the integrity of his story. Or as my father always loved to say..."He made his bed, now he can sleep in it". 

[HairGrowsBack]

16 hours ago, sifth said:

Yea, he just screams "unhappy" in this Not Blog post, after wining the Emmy.

Well , it's an important award, and he's the reason the show exists in the first place. He's happy his work is being, if only partly, acknowledged, and I'm sure he gets along with most of the people working on the show. Doesn't mean he thinks it's great quality-wise.

 

5 hours ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

Well to be fair:

snip

How would he have possibly known how the show would turn out ? He chose D&D because they told him how much they loved his books, how they would keep every storyline, etc.. and he believed them, since there was no reason not to at the time. He took a leap of faith and didn't see the sharp rocks below. If you ask me to hold your purse for a moment and I run away with it, it's not your fault , and I'm a dirty thief.

I get it is frustrating that he's taking so long to write, I do. But let's not blame the show's flaws on him.

[JonisHenryTudor]

3 hours ago, HairGrowsBack said:

 

How would he have possibly known how the show would turn out ? He chose D&D because they told him how much they loved his books, how they would keep every storyline, etc.. and he believed them, since there was no reason not to at the time. He took a leap of faith and didn't see the sharp rocks below. If you ask me to hold your purse for a moment and I run away with it, it's not your fault , and I'm a dirty thief.

I get it is frustrating that he's taking so long to write, I do. But let's not blame the show's flaws on him.

If he didn't see that coming, he is naive. I am sure that D&D do love his books and would keep his story lines, but the reality is HBO is king and a business. He was involved with television before this series, and he should have known that. HBO gets what it wants, period. There are so many things that are involved in creating adaptions or anything really. It isn't as simple as...oh here is a book, now lets just lift this to here, and voila we have our script. It doesn't work that way. Since money is earned in relation to viewership, decisions are made accordingly. We may not like those decisions, but that is simply reality. If you are HBO, do you want to please the small group of book fans compared to the massive group of non-readers?

Let's not kid ourselves, aSoIaF is a fantastic story, but most people reading it probably came to it because they read within the genre. When I started in 1999, only a single book store had GoT in my area.  We didn't start seeing the story in Target, Wal Mart, etc until the tv show. Unlike Harry Potter that achieved a massive readership early on, aSoIaF was confined to primarily people who veer towards this genre (fantasy). Appealing to us is not profitable, appealing to a wider audience is. D&D may get all the credit and criticism, but HBO is sitting above and carefully reminding them to maintain their (HBO's) image: violence, nudity, and a narrative loaded with twists and turns. 

 

Bold - This is rather irrelevant to my point. But I am not blaming the shows flaws on him, I am simply stating that he is barking up the wrong tree if he is "unhappy". That is akin to making a feast for 30 people and you expect 10 to arrive but only 5 do. You made too much food to begin with, don't whine when huge portions are thrown out. 

[sifth]

3 hours ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Well , it's an important award, and he's the reason the show exists in the first place. He's happy his work is being, if only partly, acknowledged, and I'm sure he gets along with most of the people working on the show. Doesn't mean he thinks it's great quality-wise.

 

How would he have possibly known how the show would turn out ? He chose D&D because they told him how much they loved his books, how they would keep every storyline, etc.. and he believed them, since there was no reason not to at the time. He took a leap of faith and didn't see the sharp rocks below. If you ask me to hold your purse for a moment and I run away with it, it's not your fault , and I'm a dirty thief.

I get it is frustrating that he's taking so long to write, I do. But let's not blame the show's flaws on him.

This seems to be a case of you wanting him to hate the show more than anything. I doubt he would be showing marathons of the show at his personal theater if what you said is true.

[HairGrowsBack]

2 hours ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

If he didn't see that coming, he is naive. I am sure that D&D do love his books and would keep his story lines, but the reality is HBO is king and a business. He was involved with television before this series, and he should have known that. HBO gets what it wants, period. There are so many things that are involved in creating adaptions or anything really. It isn't as simple as...oh here is a book, now lets just lift this to here, and voila we have our script. It doesn't work that way. Since money is earned in relation to viewership, decisions are made accordingly. We may not like those decisions, but that is simply reality. If you are HBO, do you want to please the small group of book fans compared to the massive group of non-readers?

 

 

Bold - This is rather irrelevant to my point. But I am not blaming the shows flaws on him, I am simply stating that he is barking up the wrong tree if he is "unhappy". That is akin to making a feast for 30 people and you expect 10 to arrive but only 5 do. You made too much food to begin with, don't whine when huge portions are thrown out. 

I fail to see how having a quality show is something HBO or its viewers wouldn't want. HBO has had lots of great shows in the past, all of them very popular. You think people were screaming for a TV show set in Ancient Rome ? Yet people loved Rome, and miss the show very much. It's really not that complicated.

He is not barking at any tree. He has taken the mature route and just does minimum stuff related to the show and keeps on writing his books. As it should be. And I don't think your analogy makes any sense, sorry. D&D told him there would be 30 people at the feast  but only two people showed up drunk and threw up in his food : that would be more accurate.

1 hour ago, sifth said:

This seems to be a case of you wanting him to hate the show more than anything. I doubt he would be showing marathons of the show at his personal theater if what you said is true.

As someone else said earlier, I'm not saying he hates the show; only that he is unhappy with it. He shows the show at his theatre because he knows his fanbase is also partly made of show watchers, and he wants to make them happy (not to mention possible contractual obligations).