[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Reprecussions - Season 6 Edition

[Le Cygne]

Season 6, and Sandra is going backwards.

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Events of last week’s episode poured cold water on the long-standing hope that Lady Stoneheart a.k.a. zombie Catelyn Stark would ever make her TV debut. There are some who have speculated that Sansa would take on this role becoming the soulless agent of Starkish vengeance. And, hey, while it might not happen literally, her grim little smiles in the face of so much death and destruction make her seem pretty flinty of heart. It’s not the fate I wanted for Sansa. As much as she deserves vengeance on her tormenters, sacrificing her humanity is not how I’d want her to get there. Catelyn is undead, but Sansa is still alive—for now. Isn’t there a healthier and more humane way for her to triumph. Shouldn’t she get to win and keep some semblance of the person she once was?

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/06/game-of-thrones-battle-of-the-bastards-sansa-stark-mistake-littlefinger-ramsay

[Ser Quork]

 

7 hours ago, Johnston said:

Calling it Shooting Unit (Northern Ireland) wouldn't have went down too well considering our history lol. 

Fair comment.

5 hours ago, rosehustle1 said:

Yeah. I am a book Sansa fan so to see them basically twist her into this vile Cersei like creature really pissed me off. Ramsay definitely should have been executed but not like this. Sansa and Jon should have upheld the Old Way to pay homage to their father and their House's principles. Instead we get Sansa reveling in a man getting eaten alive by dogs. George made Sansa one of the few characters that  doesn't easily revel in the pain and suffering of her enemies (Joffrey, Lancel) to show that even though she's glad some of these people can no longer hurt her, it doesn't change what happened to her nor make everything magically better. A big theme in ASOIAF is the futility of revenge. The show once again did the complete opposite.

Well said.

4 hours ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Long time lurker here, first post! This thread seems like an oasis of sanity among all the endless undeserved praise this show gets.

<>

(Bran is my favourite character, BTW).

<>

 

The retaking of Winterfell from the Boltons has to be accomplished by the man who got Ned Stark himself killed, for God's sake. Not even close to being an epic Stark moment.

I think D&D must be upset over the fact that they can't kill off all the Starks, because they must be vital to the endgame. If they hadn't, I suspect they would have gone the Stannis route with them. 

 

(...phew, that felt good!)

 

 

Welcome, and great post!

To the bolded, mine, too.

To the third (LF's involvement in the re-taking of Winterfell), it was repugnant.

2 hours ago, teej6 said:

I want someone/anyone to ask Sansa in next week's episode why the hell she kept the possible assistance of the Vale army a secret. Better yet, I'd like Lyanna Mormont to give Sansa the stare down (see below) and tell her that she's either an idiot or a traitor for getting all those Northmen and quite possibly her little brother killed. 

http://mashable.com/2016/06/20/game-of-thrones-lyanna-mormont-shade/#fVmqmQivzZql

 

I would love this, but I doubt D$D are aware of just what they've done.

1 hour ago, rosehustle1 said:

^This! They want to act like Sansa's method of killing Ramsay is so empowering but how exactly is it empowering for her to use her abuser's own method of murder against him? Like, of all the parallels they could have done, they chose to parallel her with Ramsay instead of Ned. Instead of honoring her Stark heritage and The Old Way, she executes Ramsay the way he would have done to someone else. Then, let's not forget that she basically had to crawl back to the man that sold her to Ramsay in the first place, for help. How empowering is it for her to now owe LF even more than she did before? Which of course she wouldn't have had to if she had circumvented him and wrote directly to Royce, manipulated LF, and told Jon about the whole thing from the beginning. But now she and the whole North is indebted to LF because she kept this whole thing a secret. And many men along with her baby brother were needlessly killed because she withheld that information. What did she actually do that can be truly seen as empowered in this arc? 

All absolutely right.

47 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

This article gives a good summary as to why Sansa's thought process is no longer Ned-influenced, but completely Baelish- influenced.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/06/game-of-thrones-battle-of-the-bastards-sansa-stark-mistake-littlefinger-ramsay

Sansa, in this episode, finally killed her inner "Stark/wolf". The bloodthirsty ending of that episode was only the logical culmination of her actions throughout. The strength of the wolf is in the pack. Sansa, on the other hand,seemed to be willing to give up on Rickon, and distrusts Jon, her own brother. It is exactly the Baelish way to trust nobody, NOT the Stark way at all. 

Jon's actions, though stupid, are the actions of a Stark who cares about his pack. He fought and almost died for his sister, and yes, was unable to be indifferent about Rickon's death.

If there is any logic remaining in Sansa's plotline, they should have her kill LF next week, after having used his Vale forces. Nobody is going to shed tears in the Vale if she writes to them saying LF died in battle. But as the showrunners have somehow decided to give a pimp and backstabber a redemption arc, this will not happen, and Sansa will remain under his thumb.  Hopefully I'm proven wrong!

For some reason, just to give Sansa an artificial "revenge" moment as a compensation for the nonsensical arc of last season, they had her keep LF's army secret so she could come riding all glorious to finish off Ramsay. They know that people will cheer and conveniently forget about how they gutted a major female character's arc and character development just for shock value, and have her behave completely illogically over the course of 2 whole seasons. It is not empowering, but rather, the final punch in a long line of insults to Sansa and Book!Sansa fans.

I agree.

Frankly, I'd be quite happy for Sandra to die now.  I see no way back for her show character that isn't a complete cop-out or retcon.

[williamwire]

Battle of Bastards is 10/10 on imdb with over 50,000 votes. 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4283088/

[Firefae]

38 minutes ago, williamwire said:

Battle of Bastards is 10/10 on imdb with over 50,000 votes. 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4283088/

I can see that, most of the people love the action and don't care that much about the rest. Hence why Ep 6,7,8 have a lower rating because there isn't much action.

[Winter's Cold]

1 hour ago, Ser Quork said:

Frankly, I'd be quite happy for Sandra to die now.  I see no way back for her show character that isn't a complete cop-out or retcon.

The show appears perfectly capable of doing cop-outs. I think Sansa will probably hang around until the last season. The showrunners know that she has a pretty large fanbase.

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, this has nothing to do with feminism (which just means women are people, too), it's just hacks hacking.

They seem to see it as good for women in power to be as vicious as the most vicious men in power.

 

[Wight nr 121]

It is actually unbelievable, when you think about it, that the showrunners had the magnificent "The North Remembers" theme of book 5 at their disposal - and they get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OUT OF IT! Nothing! They actually dump that theme altogether, and instead goes for "The North Forgot" theme, along with the "How the Vale conquered the North" theme. How is it possible to get something so awful out of such great source material? Can anyone explain this to me??

So what happens now? Littlefinger/the Vale forces (which I guess are loyal to him now, lol) have now conquered the North, so I guess Littlefinger will be calling the shots? Will he order Jon executed for desertion, perhaps? Then marry Sansa, and have his way with her, before the weirwood tree? Lots of possibilities, I guess.

And what about Manderly? Will he show up after the battle? Late Lord too-fat-to-sit-a-horse?

To think about what could have been, if D&D had at all grasped what fabulous souce material they had at their disposal. But this is what we got, I guess we just have to make our peace with that.

[TheCasualObserver]

4 minutes ago, Magnus the Good said:

It is actually unbelievable, when you think about it, that the showrunners had the magnificent "The North Remembers" theme of book 5 at their disposal - and they get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OUT OF IT! Nothing! They actually dump that theme altogether, and instead goes for "The North Forgot" theme, along with the "How the Vale conquered the North" theme. How is it possible to get something so awful out of such great source material? Can anyone explain this to me??

So what happens now? Littlefinger/the Vale forces (which I guess are loyal to him now, lol) have now conquered the North, so I guess Littlefinger will be calling the shots? Will he order Jon executed for desertion, perhaps? Then marry Sansa, and have his way with her, before the weirwood tree? Lots of possibilities, I guess.

And what about Manderly? Will he show up after the battle? Late Lord too-fat-to-sit-a-horse?

To think about what could have been, if D&D had at all grasped what fabulous souce material they had at their disposal. But this is what we got, I guess we just have to make our peace with that.

We will get the northern lords next episode... after the battle has been fought and the danger has passed. Nothing like fair weather friends I always say.

[Wight nr 121]

21 minutes ago, TheCasualObserver said:

We will get the northern lords next episode... after the battle has been fought and the danger has passed. Nothing like fair weather friends I always say.

I guess so. And again, that is a complete butchering of "The North Remembers" theme of the books.

[The Prince of Porne]

So glad to see the end of Ramsay Sue and the stupid rape-revenge plot that basically took over the Northern storyline. Funny how he was an invincible military genius (who outfoxed, outclassed, and made mincemeat of Stannis, one of the greatest commanders in Westeros) until the plot needed him to start being an idiot: the Ramsay of Season 5 would have sent his 20 Good Men to Castle Black early in the season and ended all of this before it got started, but instead he announced his villainous intentions to Jon and Sansa and then waited all season doing nothing while they built an army from scratch (what a gentleman, making it an almost fair fight). That's saying nothing of the fact that he first lost Moat Cailin and then allowed a huge army to cross half the North and march right up to Winterfell's gates without his noticing or caring.

And as previously noted, Fansa is a fucking horrible person with the blood of many Stark supporters on her hands now. Jon should kill her (and Littlefinger) in the finale, but instead he will probably say "Nah, sis, it's cool. 'Women on Top' this season, I get it."

 

[Ser Quork]

15 minutes ago, Magnus the Good said:

It is actually unbelievable, when you think about it, that the showrunners had the magnificent "The North Remembers" theme of book 5 at their disposal - and they get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OUT OF IT! Nothing! They actually dump that theme altogether, and instead goes for "The North Forgot" theme, along with the "How the Vale conquered the North" theme. How is it possible to get something so awful out of such great source material? Can anyone explain this to me??

So what happens now? Littlefinger/the Vale forces (which I guess are loyal to him now, lol) have now conquered the North, so I guess Littlefinger will be calling the shots? Will he order Jon executed for desertion, perhaps? Then marry Sansa, and have his way with her, before the weirwood tree? Lots of possibilities, I guess.

And what about Manderly? Will he show up after the battle? Late Lord too-fat-to-sit-a-horse?

To think about what could have been, if D&D had at all grasped what fabulous souce material they had at their disposal. But this is what we got, I guess we just have to make our peace with that.

I will never make peace with it!    (Well, maybe, when the book comes out.  )

[The Prince of Porne]

For some reason, this is what I kept picturing when Jon was beating on Ramsay.

[TheCasualObserver]

3 minutes ago, The Prince of Porne said:

So glad to see the end of Ramsay Sue and the stupid rape-revenge plot that basically took over the Northern storyline. Funny how he was an invincible military genius (who outfoxed, outclassed, and made mincemeat of Stannis, one of the greatest commanders in Westeros) until the plot needed him to start being an idiot: the Ramsay of Season 5 would have sent his 20 Good Men to Castle Black early in the season and ended all of this before it got started, but instead he announced his villainous intentions to Jon and Sansa and then waited all season doing nothing while they built an army from scratch (what a gentleman, making it an almost fair fight). That's saying nothing of the fact that he first lost Moat Cailin and then allowed a huge army to cross half the North and march right up to Winterfell's gates without his noticing or caring.

And as previously noted, Fansa is a fucking horrible person with the blood of many Stark supporters on her hands now. Jon should kill her (and Littlefinger) in the finale, but instead he will probably say "Nah, sis, it's cool. 'Women on Top' this season, I get it."

 

It's the inconsistency that drives me up the wall. Ramsay can come up with a decent battle plan (which he ruins by killing his horses, assuming that infantry can encircle other infantry and relying on a magical wall of dead bodies) yet the month long occupation of moat cailin is of no interest to him. Seriously? He never once considered what LF was doing with all those soldiers on his doorstep?

And why was the onus on Jon to march right to the gates of winterfell to attack when Ramsay was the one who sent the letter threatening him?

And how can LF know the precise moment to arrive with his cavalry to ensure that Jon's army is wiped out but Ramsay is still out in the open? Once again, all his political scheming boils down to pure, unadulterated luck.

I'm still trying to make sense of Sansa's actions. Probably in a different post.

[YouSnowNothing]

"Yet our way is the older way. The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.
One day, Bran, you will be Robb's bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is."

"MUST TAKE NO PLEASURE IN THE TASK".

In an episode that should've been entirely about Sansa and Jon reclaiming their Stark heritage, Sandra forgets what it really means to serve Stark justice.

I suppose it's a nice follow-up to Jon hanging a small child and his co-cospirators, rather than execute them the old way. Really excellent undercutting of running theme of Stark-ness being related to adherence to the old way - Robb dooming himself with Karstark, Theon attempting to follow the old way with Mikken/Cassel but failing, Jon's "fetch me a block", Arya's execution of the night's watch deserter. Maybe D&D are the same kind of mouth-breathers who insist that Sansa is the least Stark-like of the Starks and wouldn't follow Ned's example (apparrently she's "just like her mother" so I guess they do have that same failure of comprehension). Or maybe themes are just for seventh-grade book reports.

[Wight nr 121]

22 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

I will never make peace with it!    (Well, maybe, when the book comes out.  )

Ah, the books... One of mye greatest hopes for my little children's future is that when they become adults, they wille be living in a world where "The Song of Ice and Fire" is a completed book series

[Winter's Cold]

1 minute ago, Magnus the Good said:

Ah, the books... One of mye greatest hopes for my little children's future is that when they become adults, they wille be living in a world where "The Song of Ice and Fire" is a completed book series

That might turn out being a hope for your grandchildren.

[Danelle]

Was anyone else dissapointed by how the wildfire plot was not a secret?

In the books it was a secret, shared by Aerys and only a few pyromancers.

 

As far as 99% of westerosi are concerned, including Tywin, Cersei and Tyrion, Jaime killed Aerys because he had lost the war. The fact that the murder took same place at the same time the Lannister forces conquered the city, it made certain people to suspect that Jaime coveted the Iron Throne or that he was going to choose the person who was going to succeed Aerys next..

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"I was still mounted. I rode the length of the hall in silence, between the long rows of dragon skulls. It felt as though they were watching me, somehow. I stopped in front of the throne, looking up at him. His golden sword was across his legs, its edge red with a king's blood. My men were filling the room behind me. Lannister's men drew back. I never said a word. I looked at him seated there on the throne, and I waited. At last Jaime laughed and got up. He took off his helm, and he said to me, 'Have no fear, Stark. I was only keeping it warm for our friend Robert. It's not a very comfortable seat, I'm afraid.'"

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"Shall I proclaim a new king as well?" Crakehall asked, and Jaime read the question plain: Shall it be your father, or Robert Baratheon, or do you mean to try to make a new dragonking? He thought for a moment of the boy Viserys, fled to Dragonstone, and of Rhaegar's infant son Aegon, still in Maegor's with his mother. A new Targaryen king, and my father as Hand. How the wolves will howl, and the storm lord choke with rage. For a moment he was tempted, until he glanced down again at the body on the floor, in its spreading pool of blood. His blood is in both of them, he thought.

But that is the problem.

Even though Jaime's act was a political assassination he had completely disregarded the consequences of Aerys murder to the political situation in Westeros.He was expected to be a Kingmaker but he chose not to. What he wanted was to eliminate Aerys, who was planning to burn the city. There was no kind of Lannister conspiracy to kill Aerys and gain control of the IT. 

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"Proclaim who you bloody well like," he told Crakehall. Then he climbed the Iron Throne and seated himself with his sword across his knees, to see who would come to claim the kingdom. As it happened, it had been Eddard Stark.

You had no right to judge me either, Stark.

And of course Jaime had never shared the disturbing details of Aerys' reign with anyone, until he met Brienne.

 

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 Why am I telling this absurd ugly child? 

 

[Philokles]

With no redemption arc for Jaime there is no need for the true motive behind his kingslaying to be a secret.

[Mindwalker]

16 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

Shouldn't yara have knelt before Dany?

She still might, just not the way you mean.

No, seriously, I gave up on anything resembling proper etiquette when Bronn , after slapping Trystane, waltzed up to Doran and basically said, "oops, sorry, dudes!"

[plastic throne]

All that I got from the "epic battle of the bastards" is that apparently Azor Ahai, Jon Snow, is not fit to lead an army or to rule over anyone anymore (show Ramsey remains as best choice, oddly). All his characteristics and character growth forsaken since the resurrection. I bet they had the scene of Jon on foot and enemy horses running towards him (rolling eyes) in their mind first, and only then they thought of the 'plot' that would lead to that scene. Needless to say, had zero effect because I knew about the outcome since like episode 3 or 4.

And Sansa should be in jail or executed for treason by upholding vital information about the battle (Vale reinforcements).

So many wrongs this season, God I hope GRRM organizes D&D wedding. Jk, jk, I'm not that viscous However I'm really baffled how an average viewer rates it 10/10 just because of some action (even though its Rambo and other hollywood cliches orientated).