Faceless Men Using Arya

[Tooms]

I've always felt uncomfortable about the House and Black & White and its interest in Arya, it doesn't make sense. 

We meet Jaqen first when he's on this way to the wall as a prisoner with Rorge and Biter. We don't know why they were in the dungeons,  or why they were selected to go to the wall. In fact considering that Rorge and Biter are horrible people, quite nasty, I am not even sure they would have selected them to go to the wall. So my only conclusion is the Faceless Men were on their way to the wall to assassinate someone, maybe Jon? Or maybe beyond the wall, like Bloodraven?

They meet Arya, well at least Jaqen is in the TV show, and they change plans. He follows her to Harrenhal even though it's very clear he could leave whenever he wants to. He claims he is doing something, but what? In the end he leaves without having done anything, so he must have been there for Arya. 

Eventually he gives Arya the coin and buggers off, and Arya then just happens to find a Bravos ship at a port unlikely to randomly have a ship from Bravos let alone any ship at all, and sails to Bravos. I know the TV show washes over this part a lot so I won't go into detail but it's very convenient at least in the show.

Arya comes to the House of Black and White and whose there? Jaqen! Where's the rest of them? I know it might be budget constraints in the TV show but even in the books there is only a few of them. 

So Jaqen "pretends" to not know Arya and not want to admit her, it's part of the initiation ceremony we discover because Jaqen wants her to become no one. But does she? 

If she's truly becoming no one then she is terrible at it. I mean don't tell me that Jaqen doesn't know where she stashed Needle, and that she hasn't thrown it away. 

It all kind of clicked for me when they asked Arya about her death list in this episode. She's failing at being no one, they know it, but they're still training her. I mean even making her blind, it seemed like it was a punishment, but it turns out it was actually part of progressing her training. So Killing Trant actually got her promoted. Now she's clearly lying about being no one and again she's being moved on. 

So what do the faceless men actually want with Arya? She's still Arya, she still has a death list.

I have a strong theory from the book, but it doesn't hold up in the TV show, so I am wondering where it is going. 

[Jon Snow Bengal]

I guess we may find out when we know what name they wish a girl to name.

Any thoughts on who it may be? 

The name will no doubt lead her back to westeros.

"Jaqen" isn't at the house of black & white in the books is he? He's taken the place of the kindly man(?). I just thought they put Jaqen there in the TV show because viewers liked the actor and also it makes the story more consistant and easier to follow.

[DJE]

Yea, it's the Kindly Man in the book, I feel like Arya is using the FM more than they are using her, I don't expect her to stay a FM for long, by the end she will be Arya again, unless she dies. 

[bb1180]

29 minutes ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

I guess we may find out when we know what name they wish a girl to name.

Any thoughts on who it may be? 

The name will no doubt lead her back to westeros.

The idea I've been kicking around in my head after this last episode is that Cersei may try to launch a pre-emptive strike against the Faith Militant's champion by hiring a Faceless Man to prevent his participation,  and Arya would end up being the one sent to kill him.  Of course,  their champion is almost certain to be Sandor Clegane.

The way they emphasized his name in Arya's list during her storyline this past episode leads me to believe that those two are going to cross paths later this season,  and although I'm certainly not going to say they don't exist,  I'm having trouble constructing other plausible scenarios for that to happen.  

[legba11]

A high born girl is probably a rare recruit in an assassins guild.  She could do jobs that many others couldn't do.  Add in that she already some training in (and more importantly an interest in)  sword fighting, she is a precious commodity. 

 

Of course, their mystical abilities allow them more flexibility than a "typical" assassins guild, so that is hard to put into the equation.

[Jon Snow Bengal]

38 minutes ago, bb1180 said:

The idea I've been kicking around in my head after this last episode is that Cersei may try to launch a pre-emptive strike against the Faith Militant's champion by hiring a Faceless Man to prevent his participation,  and Arya would end up being the one sent to kill him.  Of course,  their champion is almost certain to be Sandor Clegane.

The way they emphasized his name in Arya's list during her storyline this past episode leads me to believe that those two are going to cross paths later this season,  and although I'm certainly not going to say they don't exist,  I'm having trouble constructing other plausible scenarios for that to happen.  

She certainly has mixed feelings towards him.

I'm not sure that would make sense for Cersei because the Faith would just replace him with someone else.

Just thinking out loud- The Bravos bank has lost a lot of money lately through loans to Stannis & also the non-replayment of loans by the Lannisters. They would be pi**ed!! But who would they target & how would it help them to repay the debt owed? LF has connections with the bank and has been awfully quiet lately..

[Philpenn]

^^  Wasn't one of Tywin's speeches on the Iron Bank about how if you don't pay them back they stop trying to get the money back, and just destroy you instead?

[bb1180]

28 minutes ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

I'm not sure that would make sense for Cersei because the Faith would just replace him with someone else.

I've wondered about that. The possible explanation I can come up with is that Cersei might either know that it was Sandor Clegane and decide to take her chances with the replacement,  or even if she didn't actually know it was Sandor,  that the Faith's 2nd choice probably wouldn't be as capable as its 1st. Show logic being what it is,  they might even gloss over it  completely.  As for Arya's part,  I don't think they'll actually send her after someone who is still on her list,  which,  if my idea is on the right track,  was why they made a point of having Arya state that the Hound is actually no longer on her list.  

Still,  I know the idea has holes in its current state.  I want to see the next episode (or two or three) to get a better idea where they're going with it before I commit to it. 

[bb1180]

7 minutes ago, Philpenn said:

^^  Wasn't one of Tywin's speeches on the Iron Bank about how if you don't pay them back they stop trying to get the money back, and just destroy you instead?

I don't remember any specific conversation to that effect,  but to my vague recollection,  it seems as though,  yes,  that's something that's either stated or strongly implied in both formats. 

[Kiwi]

1 hour ago, bb1180 said:

The idea I've been kicking around in my head after this last episode is that Cersei may try to launch a pre-emptive strike against the Faith Militant's champion by hiring a Faceless Man to prevent his participation,  and Arya would end up being the one sent to kill him.  Of course,  their champion is almost certain to be Sandor Clegane.

The way they emphasized his name in Arya's list during her storyline this past episode leads me to believe that those two are going to cross paths later this season,  and although I'm certainly not going to say they don't exist,  I'm having trouble constructing other plausible scenarios for that to happen.  

Why would Cersei want to assassinate the champion of faith, if she has a huge, inhumanly strong undead to fight for her? As much as I would like to see the 2 of them interact again, sorry, but this theory makes no sense on so many levels.

Though I do find it somewhat likely that Arya will be sent to King's Landing.

[bb1180]

16 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

Why would Cersei want to assassinate the champion of faith, if she has a huge, inhumanly strong undead to fight for her? As much as I would like to see the 2 of them interact again, sorry, but this theory makes no sense on so many levels.

Though I do find it somewhat likely that Arya will be sent to King's Landing.

Because Cersei also knows that there's a chance undead Gregor can lose that fight,  and lets face it,  she's hardly above underhanded, dishonorable tactics if she thinks it can help sway the outcome in her favor. 

But as I said,  this isn't exactly something I'm committing to.  I'm just trying to find possible scenarios to explain the emphasis on the connection between Arya and Sandor Clegane in this last episode and what that might mean moving forward.  With Arya training with a group of renowed, for-hire assassins,  Sandor possibly appearing to participate in CleganeBowl,  and Cersei having incentive to throw a wrench into her possibly-CleganeBowl-related trial by combat,  it would seem like there's an opening for this.  

[Ludo Kressh]

3 hours ago, Philpenn said:

^^  Wasn't one of Tywin's speeches on the Iron Bank about how if you don't pay them back they stop trying to get the money back, and just destroy you instead?

And Tyrion mentions to Bronn about funding their enemies. But i wonder what they will do now since the enemy they funded isn't going to be paying them back either. Send a FM to take out one of Stannis' camp perhaps? Davos? Mel? Maybe, just maybe send Arya?

[Jon Snow Bengal]

4 hours ago, Ludo Kressh said:

And Tyrion mentions to Bronn about funding their enemies. But i wonder what they will do now since the enemy they funded isn't going to be paying them back either. Send a FM to take out one of Stannis' camp perhaps? Davos? Mel? Maybe, just maybe send Arya?

And where is Bronn anyway?

[Tooms]

Cersei doesn't have the money to pay the FM to do anything. The crown is broke and in debt, and Casterly Rock is too. She is a beggar essentially. 

No, the FM have already been paid to do something. They were paid in season one, and they are still working on 

[House Toad]

Qarth already has a facelessmen contract placed, which hasn't been fulfilled.

[Jon Snow Bengal]

7 minutes ago, House Toad said:

Qarth already has a facelessmen contract placed, which hasn't been fulfilled.

Ah yes! I forgot about that one & I bet most viewers have too. Thus, probably won't show up again -in the show anyhows.

[Ser Wun Wun]

30 minutes ago, House Toad said:

Qarth already has a facelessmen contract placed, which hasn't been fulfilled.

Do you mean the sorrowful men?  They are different than the faceless men.  Unless we are thinking of different things. 

[House Toad]

44 minutes ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Do you mean the sorrowful men?  They are different than the faceless men.  Unless we are thinking of different things. 

Hmm thank you, yes, they were different on the show looking more like the spawn of warlocks and not the faceless assassins supposedly Robert wanted to contract against the kin, until Varys used Jorah. The point being there has already been contracts.

[DireWolfSpirit]

I would love for the FM to send Arya to take out the High Septon. I'm not even sure how that could work plot wise, but I just would enjoy seeing the arrogant prick get taken down.

[Slaysman]

On 5/12/2016 at 8:26 AM, legba11 said:

A high born girl is probably a rare recruit in an assassins guild.  She could do jobs that many others couldn't do.  Add in that she already some training in (and more importantly an interest in)  sword fighting, she is a precious commodity. 

Of course, their mystical abilities allow them more flexibility than a "typical" assassins guild, so that is hard to put into the equation.

Exactly this. The Faceless Men are ,after all, our modern equivalent of covert operatives. Having Arya Stark as an ally would be an opportunity they could not pass up. It gives them access to the high society in Westeros, a base of operations and a place to disappear to. It is my theory they will teach her the skills, but not make her one of them. While the show does pay attention to the religious aspect of the Faceless Men I do not think it a necessity for membership.

I also theorize that they will let her go, but come asking one day to pay her debt to the Red God. I believe the debt will to become something like the bureau leaders in the original Assassin's Creed.