INCBlackbird Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 So it's been a few days now and i'm still kind of upset. I actually told my friend the day before the episode aired that I hoped they wouldn't kill Olly. I never even cared about the character but I don't like how the whole thing is portrayed either. And how a lot of fans are responding. As if this was morally justified. I also think it's out of character for Jon (or he changed when he came back but I don't think he's meant to have changed). Of course we all know that Jon was doing the right thing with letting the wildlings in but I don't think we can blame Olly for dissagreeing and even taking action against Jon. He is a kid who watched his parents being murdered in front of his eyes and Tormund was there! Ygritte was there! and now he's just supposed to get over that and work together with them? And yes I know that Jon did too but Jon is an adult (at least in the show he is). so anyways, I had to get that off my chest, I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do you agree? do you disagree? and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Olly's situation is an unfortunate one, but it ultimately doesn't matter. Its not Olly's job to set the policy of the Night's Watch towards the Wildlings, nor is it his right to shank the Lord Commander if he disagrees with those policies. He was effectively a member of the Night's Watch and was acting as Jon's steward. Its a difficult situation given Olly's age and what he'd been through, but there was no alternative. He committed the same crime as the other traitors and he had to pay the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 minute ago, bb1180 said: Olly's situation is an unfortunate one, but it ultimately doesn't matter. Its not Olly's job to set the policy of the Night's Watch towards the Wildlings, nor is it his right to shank the Lord Commander if he disagrees with those policies. He was effectively a member of the Night's Watch and was acting as Jon's steward. Its a difficult situation given Olly's age and what he'd been through, but there was no alternative. He committed the same crime as the other traitors and he had to pay the same price. My impression is that most viewers thought that Olly got off very lightly, and deserved much worse punishment. The internet exploded with delight when he was hanged. But joking aside, I think you're correct. Olly got the shitty end of the stick, but really, there's only one punishment for attempting to murder your commanding officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tower of albion Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 In the north a man has a right to vengeance along as they don't break guest right. A bit of a technicality but killing your lord commander does (kind of) fall into the area of breaking guest right, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemore Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Jon took him in and under his wing when he had no one and the thanks he got was a knife in the heart. No sympathy from me I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I have a lot of empathy for Olly. He experience a very traumatic event and anger was very understood. It was not handled right and it turned him to murder someone he did admire. The Ozzman video review made some great points. Olly was able to personally avenge his father murder, and Styr was killed by Jon. So, he did get revenge against those who harmed him. He kept a hatred for all Wildings that blind him to a greater danger. He is fine with allowing children to die because they were born to the wrong parents. In many ways as he was. So, he end up conspiring and participating in the murder of the Lord Commander, and Jon Snow had to hang him. Never had the level of hate towards him but he made his choices, in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Whether Olly deserved it or not, I don't think Jon is the same person any more, and so him hanging Olly is a symbol that he isn't the fair and heroic character of old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: Whether Olly deserved it or not, I don't think Jon is the same person any more, and so him hanging Olly is a symbol that he isn't the fair and heroic character of old. I'm not sure. Jon executed them just as he did with Slynt, bcause they were traitors. Of course he felt bad for Olly, but I don't think he is a different person because of that. However, he'll probably be a different person, a slighlty different one, since Edd told him something about him not being different, and he left the Watch suddenly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 7 hours ago, INCBlackbird said: So it's been a few days now and i'm still kind of upset. I actually told my friend the day before the episode aired that I hoped they wouldn't kill Olly. I never even cared about the character but I don't like how the whole thing is portrayed either. And how a lot of fans are responding. As if this was morally justified. I also think it's out of character for Jon (or he changed when he came back but I don't think he's meant to have changed). Of course we all know that Jon was doing the right thing with letting the wildlings in but I don't think we can blame Olly for dissagreeing and even taking action against Jon. He is a kid who watched his parents being murdered in front of his eyes and Tormund was there! Ygritte was there! and now he's just supposed to get over that and work together with them? And yes I know that Jon did too but Jon is an adult (at least in the show he is). so anyways, I had to get that off my chest, I'd like to hear some other opinions. Do you agree? do you disagree? and why. Mixed feelings. I don't have sympathy towards Olly, because he chose to be a traitor (and Jon is not one of my favourites but he didn't deserve that) but I'm not relieved or happy to see him dying. I'm indifferent. However, I can understand he had some issues with the Wildings and he was probably a bit confused when doing what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Two wrongs don't make a right. It's true that the show went overboard with the savagery of the wildlings and characters like Tormund and Ygritte should have been depicted more sympathetic and less like mindless killers, but at the end of the day Olly chose to betray and murder his lord commander. Whatever his reasoning, however justified he might've been, if you kill your lord commander you have to pay the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Clint, take it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Olly was a NW brother and Jon was his Lord Commander and not his babysitter. We can understand the boy's motivations, but he was a traitor and a murderer. If Ser Aliser and the two no-names deserved it, then Olly did at well (although I found Jon's over-focus on the brat cheesy). Of course his fate would be a tragic one, that is if he was an actual character and not extremely annoying plot device which almost everyone is happy to be rid of, no matter the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabellaVidal Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 My problem with this scene has little to do with whether or not Olly should have paid for his part in the treachery. First of all, why only these four people? Secondly, did the camera need to linger on the face of what was essentially a dead child? If showing Stannis' execution would have been gratuitous, what was this? Thirdly, by what logic is Jon the lawful person to pass sentence and execute any of the traitors, especially since he acknowledges after the hangings that he is no longer the LC? Either Jon's vows were not null and void at the event of his death and he had the authority to do this and he committed treason himself by deserting the Watch; or his watch did end with his death and he committed an act of arrant vengeance upon the four unlawfully condemned and executed because he no longer had the right to do so. Ned's execution of the deserter from s1 comes to mind. Ned was Warden of the North. What is Jon's status/authority? The issue becomes even more complicated by his own desertion/murder. In light of this scenario, Olly's death becomes even more disturbing particularly if this is a flaw in the narrative (indicated by the lack of uproar by the NW) and not a signal to Jon becoming darker (in which case people in the NW need to react to his actions with a call for justice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Benjen's Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I also thought it was very weird that Jon seemingly stormed away from being Lord Commander and a man of the Night's Watch after performing an execution. Surely he could've left that to Ed to carry out. Nevertheless I think Olly deserved it in the end. He isn't exactly a boy, and although it's sad he got caught up in it and was probably heavily influenced by the other brothers the punishment must fit the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Littlefinger Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 He absolutely deserved it Yes his parents were killed by the Wildlings but he had it explained to him by both Jon and Sam why they had to let them through the wall, but he was irrational and refused to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakin1013 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Olly chose to participate in the murder of his Lord Commander. Out of all the Black Crows, Olly aligned himself with those who decided that murder was the only answer to their problem. Jon was only ever kind to Olly. While I am certain that Olly suffered serious harm from war, I am completely indifferent to his death, once he participated in the traitorous murder of Snow. I also do not see a problem with Jon hanging the 4 guilty parties. At that moment, he was the wronged Lord Commander and had the right to hang the culprits who murdered him. It is known Jon was dead and it is now known who participated in making Jon dead. It is also known that the current Lord Commander Thorne is LC because he killed the previous one. Jon owns the right to seek retribution, and the community of brothers gave Jon the authority to punish the killers (by no one stopping him or interceding for the killers). After the act, Jon promptly 'resigns' and makes Edd interim commander. Makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 That wanker got off easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I didn't deserve to be subject that god awful D&D created "character" (ie nodding cardboard cutout). And I think that's where the joy over his death is coming from, although I was sincerely praying he was gonna nod at Jon one last time before he was hung. That having been said, its got nothing to do with the actor that plays Olly. I can't say whether he was really very good or not, as he wasn't given anything to work with, but Daniel Day Lewis couldn't nod any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Live by the sword, die by the sword. When he chose to participate in Jon's murder, he effectively became a man and was dealt with accordingly when Jon was restored to life. It's much in the same vein as the morality involved with Joffrey's death; even if he didn't truly understand what he was doing when he ordered Ned Stark's death, life has to pay for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWR Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Do grown man shit, suffer grown man consequences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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