[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion

[TepidHands]

"Book of the Stranger"? Strange title for an episode that featured the deaths of a wildling (Old Gods) and Dothraki (Horse God). Even the episode titles this season are weak.

 

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

9 hours ago, Starkistbeforethedawn said:

Absolutely with you. I have grown to hate his butterfly effect argument whilst still confirming that the broad strokes of the plot will largely be the same as his books will be. Of course the details are going to be massively different and massively interesting to me, as well as the many smaller plots resolutions (hopefully), but i'll know the broad strokes, I can't avoid the show considering the behemoth it's become, unless i were to cut off all social ties and hide from social media, so this great book series will be tainted forever by two 12 year olds' in man garb. And Martin must be the only man who was surprised that he didn't deliver Winds before Season 6, I simply can't believe he didn't foresee the books taking over the show considering his writing pace, and the fact he can only write at home and barely seems to be there. 

You hit the nail on the head.  We all had a very good idea what was going to take place with Jon's arc.  We just didn't know the details.  I believe it's safe to say Weiss and Beinhoff know how this story is supposed to go through until the end, because it's been said George told them, which means George knows.  So he knows how this story will conclude, he just won't sit down and write it because he is too busy chasing money with other projects.  Which he has the right to do, but he is spitting in the face of every loyal Ice and Fire fan that was with him since the beginning.  

 

As far as the show goes.  The only interesting elements surrounds the Starks.  The Dany stuff is 100 percent cheese.  The Tyrion and his siblings part is also cheese.  This show is almost complete crap.  

[Corvinus85]

As Dany was emerging from the fire, I mentally started playing the Terminator theme. She played Sarah Connor after all.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

13 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

As Dany was emerging from the fire, I mentally started playing the Terminator theme. She played Sarah Connor after all.

For some bad ass warriors they sure are some bitches.  

[Jamie Lannister]

10 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Really because this season is just stealing scenes from season 1. Dany walks out of the flames and everyone worships her like episode 1-10.  

That wasn't really what I meant, I was more appalled at her defeating the entire Dothraki horde's leadership by spilling a few braziers with her most awkward speech yet. I would have welcomed another retread of Drogon showing up to kill them and save her.

[Tianzi]

When Davos finally (FOUR fucking episodes!) asks questions about Shireen, Brienne interrupts. Wow, that was lazy, D&D.

They really suck at writing dialogue.

Saint Tyrion showing us how to resolve the problem of slavery. He was a slave for... some time, after all!

They really suck at dialogue.

Ramsay was in this episode.

High Sparrow was in this episode.

Daenerys... wow, that was lazy too, it was made of leftovers of several different scenes.

Super-smart LF OH SO MASTERLY manipulating Sweetrobin (this 'psychotic kid' angle doesn't really work when SR is taller than LF).

But generally speaking, this episode was less god-awful than the rest of the season.

[Trinket2]

10 hours ago, Nami said:

Tommen bores me to tears. Ramsay should kill him.

They should just have Ramsay kill everybody. Ramsay goes on a one-man killing spree, from Winterfell to the south, sweeping across Westeros, down and up until he reaches and claims the Iron Throne. The series ends with him feeding Dany's dragons to his dogs, drowning Tyrion in a barrel of wine and killing all the White Walkers in single combat, bare chested.

The end scene is Ramsay sitting on his throne in the Red Keep, smiling, the banner with the Flayed man flying in the wind, and snow falling over King's Landing. The end.

[lakin1013]

Several nitpicky things, here is one:

In Hardhome, Jon specifically asks Tormund how many wildings there were, how many could they save.  Tormund says "I am not good at numbers."  Last night, Jon turned to Tormund and asked how many fighters he had available.  Tormund said "Two thousand".  

Apparently Tormund has gone to night school for arithmetic.

[W1NT3RF3LL]

10 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

yep, he even emphasized the YOUR part

Meh, he is a bastard so him separating himself from her by stating 'your father' is not all that surprising.  He still has no idea of who is parents are, and he see himself as a second rate citizen.  I wouldn't read too much into this.

[W1NT3RF3LL]

10 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

yep, he even emphasized the YOUR part

Meh, he is a bastard so him separating himself from her by stating 'your father' is not all that surprising.  He still has no idea of who is parents are, and he see himself as a second rate citizen.  I wouldn't read too much into this.

[Ingelheim]

He does not say "your father". Rewatch the scene.

[lakin1013]

Regarding BadAss Sansa - in real tv time, not 2 hours ago, this girl was afraid to cross a freezing creek and had to be cajoled into doing it.  I think I will wait and see regarding her potential badassery.

[Toth]

I guess I can post the notes I have made during my watch of the episode here as well. I haven't seen the ending with Dany, but wow, what I've read about our fireproof white saviour makes me cringe again. Nearly as bad as the oathbreaking bastard who apparently sat around in civil garb in Castle Black for how knows how much time after he so spectacularly announced his departure last episode, now being hailed to be one the northern lords will rally upon after more than a season of lethargy. Urg...

Anyway, here my other musings.

Episode 4

- so, here we again with our most recent oathbreaker. Must have been kind of embarrassing after his dramatic exit through the front gate to turn around and come back to get his stuff

- good question, Edd! And it adds salt into the injury that the show has Jon in complete ignorance of his sister’s fate. Heck, even Arya implied that she knew of Jon’s death through telepathy, but he has no idea what is happening in Winterfell?

- nice writing. Whenever someone points something out that makes no sense, interrupt him through something completely unrelated...

- yay, family reunion of those siblings who were the most distant to each other. Not that I can’t picture them being happy to see each other after all the shit they went through. But I just can’t stop thinking about how clumsy the whole setting of this is. Jon breaking his vow and dramatically leaving in the last episode, now everyone in the NW must be startled to see such a scene.

- so this is this infamous “boss ass bitch Sansa” Turner referenced in her interviews. Well... I’m not entirely sure why they even have to argument. Jon being sick of fighting is kinda understandable, but he should have pointed out the fucking army of dead marching south. Especially since it would be beneficial to have someone controlling the North who takes something like this serious.

- oh, here are the best friends Davos and Melisandre again... and finally Davos addresses the elephant in the living room! Took them bloody long enough and doesn’t excuse the bullshit that was his non-existent motivation in the last couple of episodes

- oh god the brute... she looks like she’s about to split Davos in half. Why? And why the fuck does she know Davos of all people? And since when do the Ds address the elephants in the living room, only for all the characters to shrug and walk away? What the fuck was Brienne trying to accomplish by walking up to them, boasting with having killed Stannis and threatening to kill them? If we had heard any rumors about the Red Woman getting to Brienne’s ears I could understand her beef. But the way it was framed, Meli-sans-bra looked neither red, nor menacingly powerful and Brienne looked more like she was bullying Davos instead. What did I just see?

- she was even walking up to them with her sword drawn... for fuck’s sake...

- good ol’ ‘uncle Petyr’. Talk about characters that at least are consistently 180° mirrors of their book counterparts. Poor Robin...

- really, everybody should think that Dany pranks them by letting the slavers treat with Tyrion, but now they are ‘his dragons’. There can be no denying anymore that he has successfully taken over Dany’s plotline

- okay, so.. do I get this straight? Tyrion’s plan to avoid open war with these cities is by making ridiculous demands Meereen isn’t able to enforce and then sex workers? The fuck was that? How can anybody even pretend this is going to work? And why did the ambassadors complied with it just like that?

- great, so Irri doesn’t need to do her job. More time for Tyrion!

- oh god she’s quoting the Sue...

- I’m not sure why they make so much fuzz about the whole “ALL SLAVERY BANNED FOREVER” thing. It was Dany’s goal. And nobody can force those cities to abandon their ways through either sword or hookers. That’s what we took from the books and that’s what Saint Tyrion even recognizes when he says the entire bay’s economy depends on it.

- I admit, I spaced out during the bro-trip. Did anything worthwhile happened?

- but I sure see how similar this is to Larry and Bronn last season. Everything in Vaes Dothrak oozes otherness, it’s a dangerous oriental place for two white dudes having adventures in. Why the fuck didn’t they just enter through the front door? Why all this pointless sneaking? Within Vaes Dothrak the Dothraki should be relatively reasonable towards strangers, so there is no point for their nightly mission

- there goes my saying Dothraki are reasonable. The heck was this fight scene about?

- there goes the ‘no spilling of blood within Vaes Dothrak’ thing. Shall I point out how Drogo was only able to get away with his literal metaphor because Viserys was breaking those laws left and right?

- I’m still not over the fact that Ds included this tidbit of the manfolk deciding the fate of the Dosh Khaleen instead of the other way around. Well, what can you expect from brodudes?

- at least it wasn’t Jorah who kept her in that grip. Would have been quite awkward afterwards.

- is this episode still not fucking over?

- Loras saying he never was strong... oh for Christ’s sake. Where is that splendid knight from season 1?

- you see, the major difference between the first season and this one, is that none of these conversations drive any real plot. As in: pieces move into place to attack each other. Here it’s just people babbling stuff to say whose side they are on now. It’s all about how people like each other or not, not about any distinct ambitions that actually shapes their stance towards each other. It is just shallow rambling, nothing at all.

- but to say for once something good about this whole Carol’s Landing Plot: At last they stop with their script-related lethargy and realized they could have crushed the show’s version of the sparrows quite easily and now attempt to do exactly that. It doesn’t excuse how they ‘took over’ this city and everybody behaved like an idiot to make that happen, but now at least they try to fix it in a move that sounds at least a little realistic.

- even though I find it weird that Carol is still under arrest and that Tommen himself doesn’t have anything to do with that plan (and even is implied to oppose it by default) despite his whole ‘I want to man up’ nonsense from last episode. Damn rotating character motivations...

- Pyke... so people are beaming again? Really? I could write an essay about how nonsensical it is that Theon as a crippled, tortured guy with only the clothes on his back somehow made it from Winterfell to wherever to get a ship to get the islands the North is currently at war with. My head hurts from so much plot convenience...

- and of course he just walks into the castle like that’s something you can just do...

- “Why did you come here?” GOOD FUCKING QUESTION, YARA! I don’t know and Theon sure as hell doesn’t know either.

- Where is that Asha glimpse we had seen in the first episode? Was she pushed down the cliff as well? I can’t grasp why anyone could think it to be reasonable to make Yara suspecting this miserable pile of bones to have killed Baelon and trying to get their fucking ‘Salt Throne’ (blergh). She should be happy he escaped, brought him up to date of what happened and then asked him where he stands in regards to opposing Euron.

- stop speaking trope, you idiot.

- longing shot of Ramsay flaying an apple. Or for crying out loud.

- at least no rape. Even though... ugh... how pointless everything is...

- why is this episode not already fucking over? Why does it drag on and on forever?

- yay, only 2000 thousand wildlings... and they make it sound (again) like that in war numbers are the only stuff that matters. Not anything boring like tactics or something

- oh god, I literally cringe when they make Sansa prop up Jon as the rallying point for the North when in fact she herself is far better suited for the job. But considering that the entire North seems to consist of dickheads who don’t care for the Starks...

- and now the recorder hangs itself up. I should be angry that I obviously lost the last 10 minutes of the episode, but... I’m actually glad it is over for me and I can spend my time with something more enjoyable. I hope I haven’t missed anything too atrocious to comment on (even though I’m pretty sure I did - the episode needs some last shocking swerve after all)

[AllinForAegon]

9 hours ago, LadySoftheart said:

I truly think the showrunners believe that they are making Brienne a Strong Female Character TM, without Book!Brienne's kindness and empathy to weigh down their badass heroine here. Remembwe that Sansa had to be driven by revenge to become strong.  Remember that Doran was weak for not going to war so it was totally empowering for Ellaria to kill him. The only thing that matters is revenge and the only women who deserve a real story are the ones who kill people. In the show, Arya and her spiritual kindred (let's call them the "girls are stupid/not a bloody woman" brigade*) are always valued far more than Sansa, and the notion that there is strength in retaining your compassion and empathy for others is completely alien to this show.

*Especially because these are actually diametrically opposed to what the book characters say - Arya says that the woman is important too and Brienne that women have courage, even if it's not battle courage. I guess that would just be too confusing for the show!

^ This.

 

You summarise it far better than I could.

[Victarian Revolution]

11 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

 

Im pretty pissed at George RR Martin right now.  He just chose easy cash over all the people who were/are loyal book readers and got his ass off the ground.  How he could let this happen without getting the next book out is a spit in the face to every Ice and Fire reader.  That may not be a popular statement but it's my opinion and I stand by it.  

Did i write this? my sentiments exactly!

well said

[Gaius Gracchus]

I might've misheard this because I wasn't paying a ton of attention, but didn't D&D compare Tyrion to Abraham Lincoln in the After the Episode thing they do? 

[House Cambodia]

7 minutes ago, Gaius Gracchus said:

I might've misheard this because I wasn't paying a ton of attention, but didn't D&D compare Tyrion to Abraham Lincoln in the After the Episode thing they do? 

I just watched that on youtube. Yes, yes they did. They said that was a prime influence on Tyrion's negotiations. Pretty interesting, I thought.

[Roboginger]

12 hours ago, -Ghost- said:

Holy fuck, that Dany scene was the worst.

That scene made me Cringe just as much as Michael Scott from the office did in most scenes.

[Tianzi]

34 minutes ago, Toth said:

- Loras saying he never was strong... oh for Christ’s sake. Where is that splendid knight from season 1?

Loras is a homosexual. He is not allowed to display any traditionally masculine virtues (well, he did in season 1, but that was before his whole character was reduced to a stereotype).

Also, we could forget for a minute that at Tyrells women are stronger than men. Look, he was even dirtier than his sister. Margaery had just slightly less shiny hair usual, but her eyebrows were perfectly done. That's where martiarchy makes difference!

[WolfQueenArya]

... My only gripes about the episode are: Jon and Sansa close up hand holding. WTF? Their scene makes no sense: how does Sansa know Ramsey killed Roose? Why is she suddenly so assertive? She has never thought of Jon all the time! That's Arya! She only thought of him once!  I also don't think Jon would be so... happy to see her. I blame D and D ( their comments after the episode aired about their 'relationship' are way overkill and they really do not get the characters) the fact they never had a scene together, and fan fiction. I am sure Jon and Sansa won't be the first Stark reunion in the books even. 

The Pink Letter... Rickon is another fake Arya. And we all knew poor Osha was going to get it this episode. 

And Dany... Ok then. 

This season is a giant mess with a lot of changes via plot or some characters personalities, thoughts, and wants. It doesn't flow anymore. Too many predictable standings too. I can't wait for some moments to happen to happen this season but I am glad they want only 13-ish more episodes after this season.