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15 minutes ago, Florina Laufeyson said:

I think they are actually trying to go for some character development with him. With the "oh no i must not fight anymore its all for naught blah blah" to eventually being like "oh im gonna whoop some ass. I whoop this ass over here, and then im gonna whoop some Other ass, and ill listen to reason, but asses need to be whooped." kind of thing. Its very different from the book counterpart, but pretty consistent with how Jon is on the show.

I guess... It's as though they're trying to hit the high note of sympathetic jon.   Thing is, Jon has had my sympathy since his first scene and his first chapter.  I've felt bad for Jon for EVER, and felt this was the time for him to be done playing the victim entirely, instead they just recap alllll the shit hes dealt with to somehow try and one-up the sadness of seeing him murdered.    <- that was the high point(or low point?)  they needed to transition away from that, not lean into it.  This thing about coming to the realization that asses need whooping, that's been going on for his entire story.   I think it's less about that and more about servicing showSansa's story at Jon's expense.   And to service this weird ass theme this episode of broken brothers and strong sisters...   Stop it with the forced episode themes already.

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5 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

Classicaly Tyrion now only drinks, japes and insults other people. His whole character from previous seasons have been destroyed.

And Dany has became ignorant, vain and cruel woman who enjoys burning people alive.

 

But this is how Dumb&Dumber see their favorite characters so i should shut up and praise their mastermind.

Yup! Tyrion is some sad sort of comic relief (a living and breathing drink & cock joke?!) and Dany wants to be Mini-Aerys.

I'm surprised by the show-logic yet again: Stannis burning people = he is evil!  Dany burning people = great! awesome! feminism yeah! she is so cool and so empowered!

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1 hour ago, Elaena Targaryen said:

Um.. so.. yea.. Sansa mentions their brothers and sister to Jon and he just whines? Is this supposed to be a consequence of being a quasi-zombie that Jon doesn't care to ask about Arya? That he wasn't concerned about Ramsay having Rickon? That his only mention of Bran is how Jon relates him to Olly? "I hanged a boy younger than Bran." ...Is he UnJon now?

 

The "UnJon" - I like that. Nooo, I love that.

I could be renaming other characters too: UnSansa, UnBrienne, UnTyrion, UnJaime, Un...ugh,never mind - they are pretty much all botched up.

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For the love of the Seven, the show apologists are intense! I casually wandered out of this thread into the "dany" thread with some criticisms of that particular scene, and was practically drawn and quartered for having a non-glowing opinion. I even stated that I am liking the stuff at The Wall, Pyke, and Braavos, but the Dany scene seemed stale and regurgitated to me. Somehow that was translated by the show apologists as "I hate the show because it is not a word for word adaptation."

My favorite though was when I posted something about the scene being a #ThrowBackThursday and an apologist commented, "So do you or don't you want powerful women?" HAHAHAHHAHAA! WTF dude? I didn't even say anything about female empowerment. Like literally, nothing in regards to that. 

It's crazy out there. I'm going to stay safe and sound in this thread from now on. Those show apologists are rabid! "NO OPINIONS FOR YOU!"

 

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2 hours ago, ebourget said:



Most of all I'm really bummed that while the majority of people are fussing over fire immunity, only a few of you have talked about D&D eviscerating Jon's character.  I'd been waiting for years to see Jon brought back to life and how he would react to dying and betrayal.   I never, in my darkest hours, could have imagined that he would come as a sad craven shell of man.  He gets one glimpse of the nothingness after death and suddenly he turns his back on everything he ever believed.  He abandons his friends, his family legacy and doesn't give a shit about WWs anymore.  Hey Jon where are you going to go?? You know what's out there!  Jon: 'yeah, good luck have fun with that.  Im going to go get warm. *sad smirk*'      We have to save our brother and our family home!  Jon: 'Do we though? I'm not feeling it *yawn*'    
He's all pissy about fighting the good fight and "losing" but it's nonsense.   He was killed because he naively trusted in the honor of his subordinates, people he knew hated him...  And yeah they betrayed him, but within the day he was brought back to life and avenged.  People in this series take decades to get their vengeance and he got his right away.   Boohoo he condemned a bratty little traitor to nothingness and death.  So fucking what.  He's so fixated on the handful of assholes who betrayed him like cowards and glosses over the thousands of wildlings and NWs brothers who would follow him anywhere.  And now he has his sister with him.  He has so much support behind him and so many people depending on him and so many great, urgent things to do.   But he just wants to crawl under a rock and abandon them all because..?   How the fuck did dying turn him into someone Ned or Mance or Benjen would be disgusted by. 

Dying should have been killing the boy and letting the man be born.  It ought to have made him realize that there's more to ruling and life than a man's honor.  Being betrayed by people who served him should make him re-evaluate the way he commands loyalty, not whether or not he deserved loyalty to begin with.   We should have seen the man be born, instead he was more boy than he has been since season/book 1.  WTF.  It's one thing to wake from darkness to a crisis of faith, another to completely turn on all your beliefs like flipping a switch.  Tired of fighting? fine.  The Ned didn't like fighting either but he didn't run from a fight, big difference.

Last season they destroyed Sansa's entire plot and character.  This season they fixed her but destroyed Jon in the process.

Edit:  What Jon should have taken away from his betrayal was Jaime's timeless lesson of "Whatever you do you're foresaking one vow or another."  That there is no true honor.  Only the strength to do what is necessary.

This has been bothering me too. I thought for sure that Jon would come back different somehow. Maybe he'd come back as AA? Maybe he would connect with his warg powers? Even an Un-Jon could have been interesting. But for him to die, come back two episode later, and just be "Jon Snow" again, it's kinda like.....what's the point? Was the only reason for his death so he could escape his Night's Watch commitment? 

I'm holding out hope that there is still more to come, but to have Jon DIE and be resurrected as emo Jon Snow is hugely anti-climatic and out of character. Jon would never bail on the NW considering the current WW situation. Was he just going to leave and be all, "Good luck with the 10,000 zombie fighters coming your way Ed!"

 

 

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16 hours ago, Crixus said:

I've started disliking Dinklage because of this shit. Who's next? Lena Headey (nooo!)

Thank fuck Sean Bean, Madden and Fairley are out and safe. Hope Alfie joins them soon. 

Behold!We are talking D&D here...while I was beseechingly hoping for Mrs.Fairley to return as Lady Stoneheart (I think she would have been great) since the end of S03 - I do now FEAR that those idiots will have Stoneheart appearing SOMEHOW ...because they would ruin it big time! I don't want that happening.....:(

 

And I think Lena Headey would make a good paranoid Cersei from  AFFC and ADWD - if they would only give her a better script to work with. THIS new Cersei is just boring....

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20 minutes ago, LulaMae Barnes said:

Yup! Tyrion is some sad sort of comic relief (a living and breathing drink & cock joke?!) and Dany wants to be Mini-Aerys.

I'm surprised by the show-logic yet again: Stannis burning people = he is evil!  Dany burning people = great! awesome! feminism yeah! she is so cool and so empowered!

 

I couldn't agree more.

Also the whole Shireen thing. Now what D&D's intentions were for that scene and how the viewer should feel about Stannis after I don't know. What I do know is that all, but one of my Unsullied friends thought he was evil for it. Which agitated me beyond belief. Was it horrible? Yeah, but a guy burning the daughter he clearly loved for the greater good is hardly an evil move. Especially when that guy was trying to defeat the biggest villain in the show. Daenerys lets one of her dragons burn a person she suspects with no proof to death and she is amazing for it.

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2 hours ago, ebourget said:


only a few of you have talked about D&D eviscerating Jon's character.  

Kelly C's fire immunity is new. It has only just been confirmed. In fact, they themselves said "She 'forgot' she could do it". This is new information.

The evisceration of Jon's character has been discussed at length over the years. No Unsullied ever actually believed for one single moment that he had any internal conflict at all for the 2+ years he wandered around in the snow. None of them believed for a single moment that he wasn't going to leave the Wildlings and go back to the Night's Watch.

His resurrection should have been the most incredible opportunity for a complete character renewal ever presented to a show writer.

Just as no Unsullied thought he was conflicted about staying with the Wildlings, I don't know any sullied watcher who expected them to fluff the opportunity here. Expectations have been met. As it currently stands, he is but a foil for Sansa's new and decisive character shift as she orders him around.

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37 minutes ago, LulaMae Barnes said:

 

 

And I think Lena Headey would make a good paranoid Cersei from  AFFC and ADWD - if they would only give her a better script to work with. THIS new Cersei is just boring....

Do you think the new Cersei is milquetoast this season because they're ready to give her a big grand goodbye in ep 10? I'm thinking Tommen will will carry out the Gods' Judgement. By downplaying her this season D&D probably think they're being clever. 

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8 minutes ago, Ser Desmond Wine's Bane said:

Kelly C's fire immunity is new. It has only just been confirmed. In fact, they themselves said "She 'forgot' she could do it". This is new information.

I gotta ask...

I've seen Carol and Larry and Ramsay Sue before ... but what's the origin of "Kelly C"? 

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@ Daenerys_Is_Coming : Actually, I have no clue what D&D  have planned for Cersei - in the show anything could happen - she could marry the undead Ser Gregor, become the new High Septon or move back to Casterly Rock  to become supermom....who knows.

But I think, Tommen will die before her - and that way she accepted Myrcellas death simply because of Maggy's prophecy and because it couldn't be helped... I don't even expect her to become more mad or anything.

The only thing I am sure about : show-Cersei will not be killed by any valonqar!

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36 minutes ago, Ser Desmond Wine's Bane said:

Kelly C's fire immunity is new. It has only just been confirmed. In fact, they themselves said "She 'forgot' she could do it". This is new information.

Was this in one of the Behind the Episode/ D&D segments?

 

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Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

Was this in one of the Behind the Episode/ D&D segments?

 

From the Article (EW?) where Clarke confirms no body double was used.

Paraphrased "She has always been able to do it, but she had forgotten. Its really cool. She can just set fire to everything then just stand there. It solves a lot of problems".

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Just now, Ser Desmond Wine's Bane said:

From the Article (EW?) where Clarke confirms no body double was used.

Paraphrased "She has always been able to do it, but she had forgotten. Its really cool. She can just set fire to everything then just stand there. It solves a lot of problems".

Wow. The plot armor is thick with this one :rolleyes:

Thanks for the reply.

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I have to say I'm amazed by the fact that Sansa is so cool with the whole "my half brother is a walking corpse" deal. I get that the Watch and the Wildlings are blasé about reanimated corpses but shouldn't Sansa (and Brienne and Pod) be a tiny bit more weirded out by the whole thing? Or, when I think back to Arya asking why Thoros couldn't resurrect Ned, I feel that Sansa might at least wonder whether, if Jon could be brought back from the dead, maybe Catelyn and Robb could be as well. Nothing in that dinner at castle Black, though, suggested that breaking bread with a resurrected dead man was anything out of the ordinary for Sansa. 

And similarly in KL, Cersei's totally open about the fact that Gregor Clegane is dead, but still killing for her. And Jaime's cool with that too, and even Mace and Olenna and Kevan seem pretty chill about that. Why aren't they thinking "holy shit, Cersei has a giant walking corpse beside her. How did this happen? Can she do it again? Can this thing be stopped or killed?"

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7 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

I have to say I'm amazed by the fact that Sansa is so cool with the whole "my half brother is a walking corpse" deal. I get that the Watch and the Wildlings are blasé about reanimated corpses but shouldn't Sansa (and Brienne and Pod) be a tiny bit more weirded out by the whole thing? Or, when I think back to Arya asking why Thoros couldn't resurrect Ned, I feel that Sansa might at least wonder whether, if Jon could be brought back from the dead, maybe Catelyn and Robb could be as well. Nothing in that dinner at castle Black, though, suggested that breaking bread with a resurrected dead man was anything out of the ordinary for Sansa. 

Do we even know whether Sansa is aware of this or not? Your guess is as good as mine honestly... Not that I necessarily expect it to be dealt with even if does come up.

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