teemo Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 14 minutes ago, teemo said: Has anyone got into an actual fight with someone over this show? I generally don't talk to anyone about this show unless they haven't seen it or dislike it like I do. I have several friends that I know really, really like it, and I just don't talk about it with them. If they bring it up, I just say, "I'm a book purist and I really don't like the show, so I'd prefer not to talk about it." I hate this show with a passion, but I think it would be incredibly petty and immature to get in a fight with a friend over a tv show, so that's why I just don't talk discuss it. It's like politics....I will most likely never convince them it's bad (unless maybe I got them to read the books, and probably not even then), and they are no way in hell going to convince me it's good, so what's the point? So the other day I was with a group of people and some people were there that I didn't know. There was one guy in particular that I had never met before. My friend and I hate GoT and were discussing it, he overheard, and butt in. He proceeded to purposely try to rile me up....saying nasty things about the books, how great the show was, and things started to get kind of heated. Eventually, he got sick of me pointing out all of the bad things about the show that he couldn't even argue with so he started personally attacking me. He said he just could tell by talking to me that I'm a mean, hateful, bad person and that my career as a tv critic must have been a complete joke. He went on for quite awhile about what a bad and stupid person I was. Lol? I never said one personal thing to this guy, except after his rant of how horrible a person I was, I called him a presumptuous asshole. People give book purists such a hard time and say we're snobby assholes, but yeah, Unsullied can be quite disgusting and petty as well. I really can't wait until this show is over. Wow thats a terrible experience. I empathise alot with your position. It does get hard at times seeing it all over my feed and resisting the urge to comment or correct something but because people know ive read and love the books i can see whats going to happen even though for TWD, Marvel/DC stuff it doesnt happen. Since my profile displays pro Stannis stuff its futile for me to say even the darndest thing of the show thanks to the 5x9 and 5x10 bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 So here is something I don't get. D&D make this huge deal in the behind the scenes segment about how the last scene with Dany is so great because she didn't need the dragons, she did it herself, she's independent, etc, etc. But she DIDN'T do it herself. She needed the help of Jorah and Daario to do it, Without them she could never have pulled it off. So having Drogon come and help her means she' not independent but having Jorah and Daario come to her rescue means she "did it by herself"? How does that work exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 hour ago, teemo said: Has anyone got into an actual fight with someone over this show? I generally don't talk to anyone about this show unless they haven't seen it or dislike it like I do. I have several friends that I know really, really like it, and I just don't talk about it with them. If they bring it up, I just say, "I'm a book purist and I really don't like the show, so I'd prefer not to talk about it." I hate this show with a passion, but I think it would be incredibly petty and immature to get in a fight with a friend over a tv show, so that's why I just don't talk discuss it. It's like politics....I will most likely never convince them it's bad (unless maybe I got them to read the books, and probably not even then), and they are no way in hell going to convince me it's good, so what's the point? So the other day I was with a group of people and some people were there that I didn't know. There was one guy in particular that I had never met before. My friend and I hate GoT and were discussing it, he overh 1 No, cuz as a general rule, its not polite to ruin someone's good time. Ive never got into an actual fight with anyone over this show for any real reason. Ive also never seen any of these "petty and hateful" Unsullied fans, and i lurk fanpages on Facebook. Either the guy you talked to was just a jerk in general, or its really on you being overly negative. Most Unsullied fans i speak to are having a really good time, and its not exactly my place (or anyone else's for that matter) to pee all over that. Ive bonded with people over this show, Unsullied or otherwise. @The Scabbard Of the Morning i think what they meant is that Dany came up with the idea and didnt need any real help pulling it off outside some clever placement of flammable junk (maybe) and the like. Dany really did do the heavy lifting in that plan and she did come up with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarpedon Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 The "empower Daenerys" scene was absurd on multiple levels. Most obviously, I cannot believe that anyone could read that script or watch that scene and think that the outcome depicted (Dothraki bow down in subservience to Ms. Targaryen as their new leader) could possibly follow from what preceded. Ms. Targaryen is a foreigner, not particularly well-liked, who just murdered the Dothraki leaders and destroyed the culture's most sacred building. She emerges unscathed from the glowing remains of the burning temple and the reaction of the people is to worship her? Imagine that terrorists attack the U.S. Capitol building at a time that the president was present for a State of the Union address. As a result of the attack, the top congressional leaders and the president are killed and the Capitol building is set ablaze and destroyed. Amazingly, a lone terrorist emerges from the destruction unhurt. Would our reaction be to bow down to the surviving terrorist as the new national leader? Maybe someone would say that the Dothraki would not know who started the fire. Yes, it is highly doubtful that very many at all were close enough to the scene to determine readily what happened. Doesn't that make it even less likely that they would bow down in obeisance? Maybe their first reaction would instead be to try to quell the fire and aid the wounded/afflicted? And then possibly look for the cause of the blaze and/or any culprit(s) who might have committed associated crimes? No, those would be the reactions of sane people living in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 How did she not need help? She needed the place to be prepped for fire, she needed the guards killed and the door barred so people can't get out. That's quite a bit of heavy lifting, she also needed those guys to track her for weeks and infiltrate Vaes Dothrak to even be in position to help her, I don't see how that's any more "independent" than if she just summoned Drogon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebourget Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Ok. First off, I'm glad to see some sober criticism of the series going on because on reddit they crucify you for it. The writing this season has been terrible. Like nearly everything in between the big moments has been terrible fanfiction, just filler that's at least 20% rape threats and 40% backstabs. D&D have no idea how to reconcile character, world building, and all the deviations theyve made in past seasons. They give us these great moments like jon resurrecting and jon sansa reunion and brienne sansa meet cute, but they skip over all the interesting conversations and reactions just so they aren't accused of wasting screen time revisiting old news. Guess what, a lot of new threads can come out of maybe talking about a resurrection, or the impending white walker doom, or how your brothers and sisters are alive somewhere, etc etc. BUT, I'm really disappointed to see that most people are still obsessed with Dany's fire immunity. Who cares. It's been show canon since season 1. It's inconsequential and not character related. It just is. Get over it. I have much bigger issues with the entire Khalasar/Dany dynamic they've made up. Most of all I'm really bummed that while the majority of people are fussing over fire immunity, only a few of you have talked about D&D eviscerating Jon's character. I'd been waiting for years to see Jon brought back to life and how he would react to dying and betrayal. I never, in my darkest hours, could have imagined that he would come as a sad craven shell of man. He gets one glimpse of the nothingness after death and suddenly he turns his back on everything he ever believed. He abandons his friends, his family legacy and doesn't give a shit about WWs anymore. Hey Jon where are you going to go?? You know what's out there! Jon: 'yeah, good luck have fun with that. Im going to go get warm. *sad smirk*' We have to save our brother and our family home! Jon: 'Do we though? I'm not feeling it *yawn*' He's all pissy about fighting the good fight and "losing" but it's nonsense. He was killed because he naively trusted in the honor of his subordinates, people he knew hated him... And yeah they betrayed him, but within the day he was brought back to life and avenged. People in this series take decades to get their vengeance and he got his right away. Boohoo he condemned a bratty little traitor to nothingness and death. So fucking what. He's so fixated on the handful of assholes who betrayed him like cowards and glosses over the thousands of wildlings and NWs brothers who would follow him anywhere. And now he has his sister with him. He has so much support behind him and so many people depending on him and so many great, urgent things to do. But he just wants to crawl under a rock and abandon them all because..? How the fuck did dying turn him into someone Ned or Mance or Benjen would be disgusted by. Dying should have been killing the boy and letting the man be born. It ought to have made him realize that there's more to ruling and life than a man's honor. Being betrayed by people who served him should make him re-evaluate the way he commands loyalty, not whether or not he deserved loyalty to begin with. We should have seen the man be born, instead he was more boy than he has been since season/book 1. WTF. It's one thing to wake from darkness to a crisis of faith, another to completely turn on all your beliefs like flipping a switch. Tired of fighting? fine. The Ned didn't like fighting either but he didn't run from a fight, big difference. Last season they destroyed Sansa's entire plot and character. This season they fixed her but destroyed Jon in the process. Edit: What Jon should have taken away from his betrayal was Jaime's timeless lesson of "Whatever you do you're foresaking one vow or another." That there is no true honor. Only the strength to do what is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySoftheart Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 7 hours ago, Primalsplit said: Those were hardened women making a choice. Cry/laughing at this one! and also some of this I gather we're supposed to applaud Tyrion as the Abe Lincoln of Essos. Why didn't old Honest Abe think about handing out sex workers (or slaves because that part wasn't clear) to the heads of the Confederacy to end the Civil War? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarpedon Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Good points, ebourget. You know who would probably agree? George R.R. Martin: "I do think that if you're bringing a character back, that a character has gone through death, that's a transformative experience." "My characters who come back from death are worse for wear. In some ways, they're not even the same characters anymore. The body may be moving, but some aspect of the spirit is changed or transformed, and they've lost something. One of the characters who has come back repeatedly from death is Beric Dondarrion, The Lightning Lord. Each time he's revived he loses a little more of himself. He was sent on a mission before his first death. He was sent on a mission to do something, and it's like, that's what he's clinging to. He's forgetting other things, he's forgetting who he is, or where he lived. He's forgotten the woman who he was once supposed to marry. Bits of his humanity are lost every time he comes back from death; he remembers that mission. His flesh is falling away from him, but this one thing, this purpose that he had is part of what's animating him and bringing him back to death. I think you see echoes of that with some of the other characters who have come back from death." http://www.maximumfun.org/sound-young-america/george-r-r-martin-author-song-ice-and-fire-series-interview-sound-young-america What was the show's version of Jon's transformation? To ennui? What was that mission again? Seeking warm weather? Finding a cottage in the Summer Isles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scabbard Of the Morning Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Agree about Jon, but D&D never got Jon to begin with. So that the botched him again is old news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 14 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said: Agree about Jon, but D&D never got Jon to begin with. So that the botched him again is old news As fond as i am of show!Jon, honestly, yeah. Hes always been a different creature than his book incarnation. They never really wrote Jon as the internal figure he is. Hes a slow burner, icy on the outside, but all flame inside and very introverted. They tried just for "introverted" and left a lot of the nuance at the door. Sansa had the same thing happen to her. It is a bit difficult to translate those sorts of characters on screen, but not impossible. I also think D&D didnt want Jon to change too much after resurrection out of fear of alienating his fans. So they gave him post-resurrection angst-blues to try to compensate. Its hamfisted, a bit sloppy, but the audience didnt get angry at Jon. GRRM's Jon post-resurrection is like to be very different indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaena Targaryen Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Gods it was wonderful to see any "Starks" reunite, I was teary eyed... and then... Sansa - "Winterfell is our home. It's ours.. and Arya's and Bran's and Rickon's, wherever they are. It belongs to our family we have to fight for it." Jon - "I'm tired of fighting. Blah, blah, Olly, blah. I've fought... and I've lost." Um.. so.. yea.. Sansa mentions their brothers and sister to Jon and he just whines? Is this supposed to be a consequence of being a quasi-zombie that Jon doesn't care to ask about Arya? That he wasn't concerned about Ramsay having Rickon? That his only mention of Bran is how Jon relates him to Olly? "I hanged a boy younger than Bran." ...Is he UnJon now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Season666 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 While I agree with the sentiment that the direction they've sent Jon's character into is highly unlikely given what we know about him and his thought process, I would like to add that a part of me could understand the feeling of hopelessness after his death/resurrection. The feeling that he will die and so will everyone else win, lose, or draw has to be on his mind. I understand the war for mankind is coming with the undead, but I'm not sure he's thinking on such a grand scale immediately after coming back. As much as I would love for him to hop up heart hardened and battle-ready, I'm not sure if that's possible for anyone in the given situation. He's not a robot and if Martin has shown me anything, it's that his characters (good and evil) are capable of walking the spectrum of human emotion. Not trying to sound like Sigmund Freud but Snow would surely be doing some soul searching in the wake of the treachery at CB. Also, his convo about seeking warmer pastures made me think of an old Reba song "she doesn't wanna leave, she's just wondering if there's life out there" lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Anyone else noticed that Kit Harrington's acting got better this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebourget Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Yes Elaena! It was so anti-climatic. We get this huge tease of a stark re-union and skips right to "This is good soup" WHAT?! WTF are you talking soup for?? And then his complete disregard for tghe well being of his NW brothers or family or anyone else in the realm but himself... Doesn't make any sense. Season666, I could totally buy that he would be struggling with that realization of nothingness. I know that would trigger a real existential crisis. Surely they could have had him holed up in his room just mulling it over for a while, to grapple with the notion of it. But for him to go from Resurrection to 'fuck everyone I'm going to get warm'. I suppose I didnt expect him to be battle ready from the get-go, but that was ready to run and give up immediately irked me. Florina is quite right about D7D never getting him. He's introverted and struggles with so much anger, bitterness, envy, etc. but in the show he's always just been more pouty and resigned to 'do his duty'. Now it's as if they doubled down on pouty and resigned, sans the duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhail Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 13 minutes ago, Nami said: Anyone else noticed that Kit Harrington's acting got better this season? Hes now moved from second worst actor to third worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragon has three heads Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 its all just making me sad, not mad. been waiting so long to see some decent post ADWD material and it's all just fluff, some nice shots and decent monologues but for the most part, fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 26 minutes ago, ebourget said: Florina is quite right about D7D never getting him. He's introverted and struggles with so much anger, bitterness, envy, etc. but in the show he's always just been more pouty and resigned to 'do his duty'. Now it's as if they doubled down on pouty and resigned, sans the duty. 2 I think they are actually trying to go for some character development with him. With the "oh no i must not fight anymore its all for naught blah blah" to eventually being like "oh im gonna whoop some ass. I whoop this ass over here, and then im gonna whoop some Other ass, and ill listen to reason, but asses need to be whooped." kind of thing. Its very different from the book counterpart, but pretty consistent with how Jon is on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooog Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 51 minutes ago, Nami said: Anyone else noticed that Kit Harrington's acting got better this season? He was superb in the first 2 episodes, never better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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