LulaMae Barnes

[Spoilers] Criticize Without Repercussion

477 posts in this topic

9 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

I have to say I'm amazed by the fact that Sansa is so cool with the whole "my half brother is a walking corpse" deal. I get that the Watch and the Wildlings are blasé about reanimated corpses but shouldn't Sansa (and Brienne and Pod) be a tiny bit more weirded out by the whole thing? Or, when I think back to Arya asking why Thoros couldn't resurrect Ned, I feel that Sansa might at least wonder whether, if Jon could be brought back from the dead, maybe Catelyn and Robb could be as well. Nothing in that dinner at castle Black, though, suggested that breaking bread with a resurrected dead man was anything out of the ordinary for Sansa. 

And similarly in KL, Cersei's totally open about the fact that Gregor Clegane is dead, but still killing for her. And Jaime's cool with that too, and even Mace and Olenna and Kevan seem pretty chill about that. Why aren't they thinking "holy shit, Cersei has a giant walking corpse beside her. How did this happen? Can she do it again? Can this thing be stopped or killed?"

Well, to be fair, Pycelle brought up about putting down the beast...but who listens to that grey sunken cunt anymore.;)

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44 minutes ago, Ser Desmond Wine's Bane said:

From the Article (EW?) where Clarke confirms no body double was used.

Paraphrased "She has always been able to do it, but she had forgotten. Its really cool. She can just set fire to everything then just stand there. It solves a lot of problems".

I thought you were having a bit of a laugh so i went and found the article. A little bit of me died after it.

Next EW article is going to be with Aidan Gillen and hes going to say "He had a car, that was really fast. Its really cool. He can just drive around at 180mph everywhere. It solves a lot of problems."

 

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5 hours ago, Sarpedon said:

The "empower Daenerys" scene was absurd on multiple levels. Most obviously, I cannot believe that anyone could read that script or watch that scene and think that the outcome depicted (Dothraki bow down in subservience to Ms. Targaryen as their new leader) could possibly follow from what preceded. Ms. Targaryen is a foreigner, not particularly well-liked, who just murdered the Dothraki leaders and destroyed the culture's most sacred building. She emerges unscathed from the glowing remains of the burning temple and the reaction of the people is to worship her?

Imagine that terrorists attack the U.S. Capitol building at a time that the president was present for a State of the Union address. As a result of the attack, the top congressional leaders and the president are killed and the Capitol building is set ablaze and destroyed. Amazingly, a lone terrorist emerges from the destruction unhurt. Would our reaction be to bow down to the surviving terrorist as the new national leader?

Maybe someone would say that the Dothraki would not know who started the fire. Yes, it is highly doubtful that very many at all were close enough to the scene to determine readily what happened. Doesn't that make it even less likely that they would bow down in obeisance? Maybe their first reaction would instead be to try to quell the fire and aid the wounded/afflicted? And then possibly look for the cause of the blaze and/or any culprit(s) who might have committed associated crimes? No, those would be the reactions of sane people living in reality.

I stated this over in the "Dany?" thread, but I believe the answer lies in the power structure of the dothraki.  Similar to how the wildlings only followed Mance Rayder because he was the strongest among them, a khalasar is lead by only those who can designate themself as a Khal.  Khal Drogo was the great Khal because he was the toughest among them.  After he died his underlings immediately started vying for power.  So while Dany didn't kill them in a duel or one on one, the fact that she's the only one to walk out alive makes her the strongest among them.  This would by default make her the "new" leader of the khalasar(s).   This is my take on the situation anyways.  

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Has anyone got into an actual fight with someone over this show?  I generally don't talk to anyone about this show unless they haven't seen it or dislike it like I do.  I have several friends that I know really, really like it, and I just don't talk about it with them.  If they bring it up, I just say, "I'm a book purist and I really don't like the show, so I'd prefer not to talk about it."  I hate this show with a passion, but I think it would be incredibly petty and immature to get in a fight with a friend over a tv show, so that's why I just don't talk discuss it.  It's like politics....I will most likely never convince them it's bad (unless maybe I got them to read the books, and probably not even then), and they are no way in hell going to convince me it's good, so what's the point?

So the other day I was with a group of people and some people were there that I didn't know.  There was one guy in particular that I had never met before.  My friend and I hate GoT and were discussing it, he overheard, and butt in.  He proceeded to purposely try to rile me up....saying nasty things about the books, how great the show was, and things started to get kind of heated.  Eventually, he got sick of me pointing out all of the bad things about the show that he couldn't even argue with so he started personally attacking me.  He said he just could tell by talking to me that I'm a mean, hateful, bad person and that my career as a tv critic must have been a complete joke.  He went on for quite awhile about what a bad and stupid person I was.  Lol?  I never said one personal thing to this guy, except after his rant of how horrible a person I was, I called him a presumptuous asshole.  

People give book purists such a hard time and say we're snobby assholes, but yeah, Unsullied can be quite disgusting and petty as well.  I really can't wait until this show is over.

Criticizing this show online has become a recipe for harassment. But to actually receive that treatment IRL? That's cute. I, at the very least, would've left the table early on, to make the point to the other people in the circle that I don't like to be surrounded by assholes.

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It's pretty inconceivable that Unsullied would act like that. I'd like to think that if anyone loved the show as much as they do, they'd easily introduce themselves to the books and appreciate them at least on par with the show. Now, some people don't have to be purists and enjoy the show for what it is, but to actually put forth the notion that the show is somehow superior to the original story is laughable. What it really comes down to is a lack of maturity: getting butthurt that people dislike what they like.

What they almost always default to doing is calling people "haters", as if that term even means anything in the first place. /yawn

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Nice theory, Season666. The problem is, how would the tens of thousands of Dothraki even know what happened in the temple? Daenerys emerging from the burning temple (cause: not immediately clear to a distant observer or non-witness, which is what almost everyone would be) doesn't prove that she bested any Khals nor does it demonstrate any particular apparent strength other than magically surviving a fire whilst maintaining perfect hair. There's no logic to any Dothraki following her other than doing so is in the script.

    

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re: Jon I watched Preston Jacobs' recaps/ analyses on yt (highly recommended and entertaining). He makes a long list of things Jon would have on his mind right now and might want to talk about with Sansa (instead of how she dissed him when they were kids), very funny. Anyway... his theory is that Jon is really UnJon, inhabited by either the CotF or the WW, while the real Jon is inside Ghost. It explains why Jon would hang a child, why Ghost does not go near him etc. I would love that, but I'm almost 99% sure it won't happen. And the Ghost thing is just because CGI plus, they don't care about the direwolves.

Edited by Mindwalker

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48 minutes ago, xi0 said:

It's pretty inconceivable that Unsullied would act like that. I'd like to think that if anyone loved the show as much as they do, they'd easily introduce themselves to the books and appreciate them at least on par with the show. Now, some people don't have to be purists and enjoy the show for what it is, but to actually put forth the notion that the show is somehow superior to the original story is laughable. What it really comes down to is a lack of maturity: getting butthurt that people dislike what they like.

What they almost always default to doing is calling people "haters", as if that term even means anything in the first place. /yawn

Yeah, that's why the expression "guilty pleasure" exists. It doesn't even have to be guilty; if someone wants to enjoy Game of Thrones as The Tits And Dragons Show while knowing all the time that they're not watching high quality drama, more power to them. But this notion that D&D are improving anything is preposterous and objectively false.

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21 minutes ago, Punanny From Hell said:

Yeah, that's why the expression "guilty pleasure" exists. It doesn't even have to be guilty; if someone wants to enjoy Game of Thrones as The Tits And Dragons Show while knowing all the time that they're not watching high quality drama, more power to them. But this notion that D&D are improving anything is preposterous and objectively false.

Yeah, I cringe every time I read "greatest show of all time" regarding this show.  I honestly can't even find it to be a guilty pleasure though, and not just because I don't like it, but because I find it boring. That's why I don't even watch anymore.  It used to be at least kind of fun to watch even though I didn't like it....now it's just gotten straight-up boring.  My sister and brother-in-law are soooo disappointed with this season.  She keeps falling asleep during the show.  After the premiere I said, "So, still like this show?"  "Not after that." So I know it's not just us.  

I have some guilty pleasures too, but I don't pretend like they're good, lol.  My worst is probably Girls.  That show is so fucking horrible but I enjoy watching it for some reason.  It's like a hilarious trainwreck.  Dunham's "Inside the Episode" segments are sooooo pretentious too, kind of like D&D.  It's not desecrating its source material like GoT though, so it doesn't make me mad.  It's just funny.  They should all collaborate and make something terrible together.  

Edited by teemo

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Sorry, please ignore! :P

Edited by Mikeygigs

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The writing is really cheap. Essentially Miss Sue wanders off and just finds herself an army (again). The writing assumes quite a bid inbuilt racism from the viewer. Nobody would accept that in Westeros Melisandre could have just killed Stannis with magic and become some kind of a goddess. They would have called her a witch and tried to kill her. The Dorokhati are shown to have the same aversion to magic. In the books it was shown that they are not just stupid savages but have their own culture. But now the viewer can indulge him/herself in fantasy racism where the savages are "ooh, the stick goes boom, such power can be only granted by gods, be your God and Master!". I guess the fanboys who love Miss Sue can shallow it because the assume everybody should love her. I would only hope that the "Dany burns people, she is awesome" "Stannis burns people, he is evil" conflict would be intentional. That would be cool writing but who am I kidding, good writing has left the show. It is interesting how Dany gets excused for her cruelty and vanity. She needs an army, so she goes to trade a dragon for one. The sellers could just order the army to kill her and take the dragons but they are not doing that. Instead she robs and murders them, but luckily they were such caricature evil guys that nobody minds, and luckily they happened to have slaves so it was all about freedom and caring about the slaves and not about not wanting to part with a dragon. Such a lucky girl to run into such an evil men that they can be murdered who also happen to be too nice to rob her. And now the same shit again with Dorokhati.  

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I guess it's lucky for Dany that the main dothraki bro responded to her little rant with rape threats instead of a "Yeah, okay, crazy white girl...you just go hang out with the Dosh Khaleen now, mmkay?" Since it's obvious she planned to kill them all regardless.

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2 hours ago, Johannes Rimpiläinen said:

The writing is really cheap. Essentially Miss Sue wanders off and just finds herself an army (again). The writing assumes quite a bid inbuilt racism from the viewer. Nobody would accept that in Westeros Melisandre could have just killed Stannis with magic and become some kind of a goddess. They would have called her a witch and tried to kill her. The Dorokhati are shown to have the same aversion to magic. In the books it was shown that they are not just stupid savages but have their own culture. But now the viewer can indulge him/herself in fantasy racism where the savages are "ooh, the stick goes boom, such power can be only granted by gods, be your God and Master!". I guess the fanboys who love Miss Sue can shallow it because the assume everybody should love her. I would only hope that the "Dany burns people, she is awesome" "Stannis burns people, he is evil" conflict would be intentional. That would be cool writing but who am I kidding, good writing has left the show. It is interesting how Dany gets excused for her cruelty and vanity. She needs an army, so she goes to trade a dragon for one. The sellers could just order the army to kill her and take the dragons but they are not doing that. Instead she robs and murders them, but luckily they were such caricature evil guys that nobody minds, and luckily they happened to have slaves so it was all about freedom and caring about the slaves and not about not wanting to part with a dragon. Such a lucky girl to run into such an evil men that they can be murdered who also happen to be too nice to rob her. And now the same shit again with Dorokhati.  

Two really good points, very interesting!:cheers:

 

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The Dothraki are a macho culture that hate witches.

They would never have bowed to her because she killed the khals and is fireproof.  They would have said 'yep, we should have listened when the khals wife said we could cut her head off because she's a witch, and then cut her head off.  This doesn't really work without the dragon.  Even in the books Dany's power comes from the dragons.  If drogon showed up and burns some shit down and then submits to her....that would make more sense.  I'm not that much of a fan of the Dothraki submitting to her on any basis, but this was the show again trying to be more "modern" and show Dany 'doing something herself'. 

Okay then.  She burned some guys alive herself...which so far, that's pretty much all she has done in the show herself.  Burn people.  It's odd that they have created such a parallel to the mad king when I'm almost positive they intend all of this murderous burning to be badass and cool .

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13 hours ago, ebourget said:

Most of all I'm really bummed that while the majority of people are fussing over fire immunity, only a few of you have talked about D&D eviscerating Jon's character.  I'd been waiting for years to see Jon brought back to life and how he would react to dying and betrayal.   I never, in my darkest hours, could have imagined that he would come as a sad craven shell of man.  

snip

 

 

This is a really great post.

Not to mention that getting to this point required having Davos become suddenly obsessed with resurrecting Jon, despite there being no sense of what he thought this was going to achieve or why he would even consider it as a possibility....only to have Jon come back with apparently no character growth, no consequences, and not giving a fuck about anyone or anything (except maybe the pain of Olly's betrayal :crying:).. Classic example of D&D checking an obligatory plot event off the list but going about it in the worst way possible and ending up with something that will probably bear little to no resemblance to the event in the book.

Edited by The Prince of Porne

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At the wall:

Sansa and co; none of them had seen The Wall before. Yet there is no sense of wonder in their faces. They all look like they just walked into an inn. In season 1, it made both Tyrion and Jon drop their jaws. Well I can forgive that considering what Sansa had been through and all she wanted to see was Jon.

Does Sansa know what had happened to Jon? She seems to not mind that Jon came back from the dead.

Davos finally remembered Stannis and Shereen. But when Brienne told him that she had executed him, he was like 'Oh, Thank you for the update'. And he forgot Shereen ....again.

At King's Landing

What on earth is going on here? Nothing makes any sense. Some one tell Jaime to get out of the scene, he does not belong there. Clearly the show runners have no plot here. They are just dragging it out until the last few episodes of the season.

Every week the high sparrow picks an irrelevant topic and preaches it to someone. What is the point of all this? Maybe that is the penance he was talking about?

Mereen

Finally Tyrion got something to say. I just did not like Missendai and Grey Worm following him around like a couple of puppies.  Tyrion's dialogues used to be witty and memorable. Not anymore.

The Iron Islands

Not bad. But Theon could have asked why Yara and her 'Good Men' fled at the sight of a few dogs and a shirtless Ramsey.

The Vale

The whole exchange was stupid. Littlefinger accuses lord Royce, and his own soldiers are ready to throw him out the moon door. Wut? First of all shouldn't Vale be under a regent's rule until Robin comes of age?

Vaes Dothrak

I absolutely hated it. The dothraki Khals are frearless warriors who are known for pillaging and burning cities to the ground. But they all ran like little puppies when they saw some fire. And why did none of them try to punch Dany in her face when she thew the first Brazier,...or the second? I can accept that Dany is fire-proof in the show, but that does not explain why none of the burning beams fell on her head?

And I absolutely hate Emilia Clark's acting. All she can do is stand like stone and deliver bad-ass dialogues. In the books I felt bad for Dany. But in the show, I just want her dead as soon as possible.


Overall

The quality of dialogues has deteriorated starting from last season. It feels like some children wrote it. There were memorable dialogues in the previous seasons. But I do'nt think I will recognize a dialogue from this season if I heard it elsewhere. Clearly the writing sucks when there is no source material.

 

Westeros seems to have run out of men. With this episode, every arc is headed by a woman

North: Sansa (she had to convice Jon to save Rickon)

Dorne: Sand Fakes

Mereen: Dany(once she gets there)

Kings Landing: Cersei

Reach: Olenna + Margery

Iron Isles: Yara

Bravos arc: Arya

We ran out of decent male leaders - Roose, Tywin, Stannis, Mance, Doran - they are all dead

And we end up with Ramsey: a 2D villain, Tyrion: who drinks and makes cock jokes, Jon: who just wants to go south and get warm, and Jaime: who is there is move Cersie's chair. I hope Euron turns out to be good.

 

 

Edited by athmystikal

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2 hours ago, The Prince of Porne said:

 

This is a really great post.

Thanks!
I've been disappointed with most of this season(so much nonsense fluff in between commonly anticipated moments) but especially the two principal characters/places for Jon and Dany.

I was so pissed off about the new dothraki quest.  Based off of how we left Dany in the books, the massive horde that seemed to be celebrating her at the end of last season, I had theorized that the dothraki would have heard legends about this little girl coming out of the desert with nothing but her dragons and conquering slavers bay.   I figured they would be impressed by this and seek her out to show respect and when they did that circle pit song & dance end of season, it really really seemed like a celebration.     

But then suddenly nope, they don't have a clue who this girl is.   She's literally just a random dumb wench lost in the dothraki sea/see/c.  Cue nonstop rape jokes.  Time to subjigate some doubting douchebags once again!  Because no matter what she accomplishes, no one will ever pay her any respect.

But wait, then we have a Khal saying he does know who she is because there's a massive bounty on her head from the astapor slavers.  I mean, the dothraki should be aware of what's happening there right?  You'd think that the roaming conquerors of Essos would be aware that qarth, yunkai, astapor and meereen have all been conquered or laid to waste.  Otherwise what have they been fucking doing since season 1?

So which is it, they don't know who she is, or they do and don't care cause she's a women?   And yeah they're supposed to hate magic right?  So why go with the whole fire immunity thing instead of showing her strength by the fact that she rides a dragon, the strongest mount in the world.  Speak their language for fuck sakes.

(and don't get me started on Shaggy Dog/Rickon/Winterfell/GNC)

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1 hour ago, athmystikal said:

At the wall:

Sansa and co; none of them had seen The Wall before. Yet there is no sense of wonder in their faces. They all look like they just walked into an inn. In season 1, it made both Tyrion and Jon drop their jaws. Well I can forgive that considering what Sansa had been through and all she wanted to see was Jon.

She probably already had the reaction as she approached Castle Black, the wonderment already happened.

Quote

Does Sansa know what had happened to Jon? She seems to not mind that Jon came back from the dead.

Yeah, the convo happened off-screen right after the hug

Quote

Davos finally remembered Stannis and Shereen. But when Brienne told him that she had executed him, he was like 'Oh, Thank you for the update'. And he forgot Shereen ....again.

He asked when Melissandre first returned, she didn't really give him an answer. Then Jon was murdered later that night and he was caught up with that until now. And then Meli blew him off again after Brienne interjected.

Quote

The Iron Islands

Not bad. But Theon could have asked why Yara and her 'Good Men' fled at the sight of a few dogs and a shirtless Ramsey.

I was sort of expecting that too, but I think he didn't because he isn't "mentally" strong enough to be like that yet. Yara's stern talking-to is what he needed, and hopefully she can make him confident again.

Quote

The Vale

The whole exchange was stupid. Littlefinger accuses lord Royce, and his own soldiers are ready to throw him out the moon door. Wut? First of all shouldn't Vale be under a regent's rule until Robin comes of age?

I don't think that's how The Vale works.

Quote

Vaes Dothrak

I absolutely hated it. The dothraki Khals are frearless warriors who are known for pillaging and burning cities to the ground. But they all ran like little puppies when they saw some fire. And why did none of them try to punch Dany in her face when she thew the first Brazier,...or the second? I can accept that Dany is fire-proof in the show, but that does not explain why none of the burning beams fell on her head?

 

You're telling me that since the Dothraki burn and pillage towns they shouldn't be afraid when locked in a temple rapidly burning up? Khal Moro tried to rush at Dany but she threw the second brazier down and blocked his path with more fire. She didn't get hit with beams because she wasn't near any in the center, and she just avoided them when she walked out

Edited by WingedShadow

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