Queen Unburnt Rises Again...Yes there shall be SPOILERS

[Xcorpyo001]

4 hours ago, WingedShadow said:

No. Fire doesn't harm her. She can be harmed by anything else. 

No, she is resistant to fire, not pressure or vacuum.

 

I’m afaraid you are incorrect about the part about her not being able to survive on the Sun. Even after the khals are dead, she still stays in the building for minutes until the door is completely consumed by the flames. Since large portions of the roof were starting to fall around the khals even after 5 seconds after she started the fire, she would have been hit as well eventually. That would also make her impervious to physical damage.

And even if someone is immune to fire, he should be bound by other factors, like breathing. So she would have died in less than a minute from smoke inhalation and lack of oxygen. Since she obviously survived in there for minutes, we can safely assume that she doesn’t need to consume oxygen or even breathe, so she can easily survive in vacuum.

Dany=Superwoman confirmed. Now all she needs to do is discover her flying abilities and heat vision. After all, they can’t have braziers all over the place all the time, and Drogon won’t like to be used as a taxi every time she needs a ride.  

[Maid So Fair]

9 hours ago, adiman83 said:

There were only a handful of people because this time it was the Kharal Vezhven, which is a private meeting. When Viserys died it was a celebration. One he was not invited to.  

 

 

But this was meant to be a momentous and important event for the Dothraki. They even have an actual name for this big gathering of khals. Instead, we get what looks like a couple of guys who have gone for a pint at the end of the day. There must be more than a couple of khals. The privacy also makes no sense - Dothraki do everything important under the open sky and there is no privacy and modesty in a khalasar. 

[Xcorpyo001]

1 minute ago, WingedShadow said:

Her fire-immunity also extends to the products of fire. Otherwise, she would've been coughing from all of the smoke from the Sack of Astapor. Or from the dragon-reviving ritual. 

 

Smoke and lack of oxigen are 'products of fire', to which Dany is also immune. Aham. Of course she is. I get it now. There is no point debating that little bit of wisdom any more. 

[ShadowKitteh]

The sequence is -

Dany turns over the braziers. The Khals attempt to run from the fire, while Dany turns over more. A few make it to the door, but cannot open it.

Exterior. Close-up shot of door, tree branch through the handles.

Exterior. Mid-shot of barred door, two dead guards on the round.

Exterior. Jonah and Daario looking on.

I took this to mean they took care of the guards and barring the door, since Dany said in the earlier scene she needed their help.

 

[Vastet]

"Dany what to her party of old, sick, women, and children the people that were too weak to leave with Aggo and he took everybody else. It was sink or swim, she swum. If she didn't she would be dead. It was throwing all her aces into the flames attempting to recreate the ritual through sacrifice, her Dragons birthed through sacrifice giving her, her power.

The ritual before was blood magic, a ritual that required sacrifice. She recreated that ritual in her own ability"

To which I repeat myself:

"She knew full well she would survive. She knew full well her dragons would hatch.

And there is absolutely nothing to demonstrate the event was blood magic. How did she suddenly learn how to use it if it was?"

As for:

"You respond with what you haven't seen. giving creedence to what wasn't there. You argue for the sake of it, and you think you are some how better than the rest of us, immune to forum rules."

I saw oil. Look closer.

I'm not breaking the rules. You're the one going around insulting everyone who disagrees with you.

"What what what, I can flip meat in burning pan without burning myself my skin is thick and I take quite hot showers. Ask somebody younger to do this they get burnt, your point?"

Dany held a red hot egg in her hands for 5-10 seconds. You go ahead and pick up something red hot and hold it for 5-10 seconds. I'll wait the couple months it'll take before you're healed enough to resume using a keyboard.

[adiman83]

2 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

But this was meant to be a momentous and important event for the Dothraki. They even have an actual name for this big gathering of khals. Instead, we get what looks like a couple of guys who have gone for a pint at the end of the day. There must be more than a couple of khals. The privacy also makes no sense - Dothraki do everything important under the open sky and there is no privacy and modesty in a khalasar. 

Who said it was an important event for all Dothraki?

[Noveson]

22 minutes ago, adiman83 said:

Who said it was an important event for all Dothraki?

....I mean the fact that all the Khals were summoned there points to that right? Lol.

[Vastet]

I'd say you're right on that count, but I don't think the number of Khal's seemed too small. All the men in the building were the Kings of the Dothraki. It wouldn't make sense to have 40 of them.

[Steelborn]

On 5/17/2016 at 2:24 PM, TickTak7 said:

If you can't suspend your sense of belief about firing spreading in a show that has dragons, ice zombies, vagina monsters, and several hundred year old women, then I think it's time you held up your hand and admitted to yourself that you are probably over-thinking things WAY too much. 

I.. I don't remember that. Unless you're talking about bad pussy.

[Amis Targaryen]

So, lets burn westeros

[ShadowKitteh]

2 hours ago, Steelborn said:

I.. I don't remember that. Unless you're talking about bad pussy.

Smoke Stannis Monster from LOST.

[Jack Bauer 24]

2 hours ago, Steelborn said:

I.. I don't remember that. Unless you're talking about bad pussy.

Is there a reason why you aren't understanding something so basic?

[Neds Secret]

2 hours ago, Steelborn said:

I.. I don't remember that. Unless you're talking about bad pussy.

I think they're referring to shadow babies in empowerment language or speak!

[watcher of the night]

On 2016. 05. 18. at 6:23 AM, Jack Bauer 24 said:

Lol with the Mary Sue. It's the new buzzword of the forum. And no, she can't walk out of almost any situation unscathed. That's nonsense. Fire is one element. Many other things can kill her. Is there a reason why you're not understanding this? 

Well she did get out of every situation unscathed. Tell me just one occasion when she was hurt.

Also is there a reason you are questioning people's ability to undertsand just because they disargee with you? Is it that difficult to understand that others might have different, equally valid opinions?

On 2016. 05. 18. at 6:29 AM, WingedShadow said:

I believe they said they didn't want to have Emilia be bald for a while on the show(it probably would also be a pain to show her regrowing it, with all of the different wigs she'd have to have). It kind of makes sense.

 

"A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment."

 

Does that sound like Daenerys? No. She was not low-rank at this point(technically speaking), she didn't save the day with unrealistic abilites(she's survived heat and fire before). She's not a self-insert or wish-fulfillment character.

 

She can't get out of every situation unscathed, not at all. She can survive fire. Fire is not the only, nor primary, way to kill or harm someone in the world.

 

Just because you don't like her doesn't mean you get to throw terms around willy-nilly as if you know what they mean

Lol, keep dreaming. She the definition of Mary Sue. She is not special, lol. Like being fireproof and firebending is not special. Tell me why no one punched her in the face. What people don't like is the forced nature of the scene and the plotholes and inconsistencies that allow her to get away with all this.

On 2016. 05. 18. at 6:55 AM, Vastet said:

If she were a mary sue, the masters wouldn't have retaken most of Slavers Bay. She would have been the one raping Drogo. Her dragons would obey her every thought. Jorah wouldn't have needed to save her from poison. She wouldn't have lost her baby, and she wouldn't be barren now. She would already be undisputed Queen of the world.

She is not a mary sue.

Lol, so she is not Mary sue because she is not yet the uncontrolled Queen of the world ... Also Drogo did not rape her, he asked and she said yes. Both Jorah and Selmy saved her ass in the last second. She lost her baby due to her own mistake but it is good guess that she would not have dragons without that trauma. Her dragons saved her ass each and everytime she needed help: in Quarth, in Astapor, in Mereen and it is good bet that Drogon will show up in Vaes Dothrak as well. And let's be honest in the show she is just on her way to conquer the world due to her dragons and her superhero firebending skill...

[Jack Bauer 24]

1 minute ago, watcher of the night said:

Well she did get out of every situation unscathed. Tell me just one occasion when she was hurt.

Also is there a reason you are questioning people's ability to undertsand just because they disargee with you? Is it that difficult to understand that others might have different, equally valid opinions?

Lol, keep dreaming. She the definition of Mary Sue. She is not special, lol. Like being fireproof and firebending is not special. Tell me why no one punched her in the face. What people don't like is the forced nature of the scene and the plotholes and inconsistencies that allow her to get away with all this.

Lol, so she is not Mary sue because she is not yet the uncontrolled Queen of the world ... Also Drogo did not rape her, he asked and she said yes. Both Jorah and Selmy saved her ass in the last second. She lost her baby due to her own mistake but it is good guess that she would not have dragons without that trauma. Her dragons saved her ass each and everytime she needed help: in Quarth, in Astapor, in Mereen and it is good bet that Drogon will show up in Vaes Dothrak as well. And let's be honest in the show she is just on her way to conquer the world due to her dragons and her superhero firebending skill...

You don't even know the definition of a Mary Sue. It's a stupid buzzword first of all. Dany is empowered. She is a strong powerful woman with agency, so I'm not sure why you aren't understanding something so basic? The story isn't over. She can still die. She can die by sword, WW's,  or many other things. Fire is one element. Why is this hard to understand for you?

[Maid So Fair]

10 hours ago, Vastet said:

45 minutes ago, Vastet said:

Spoiler

I'd say you're right on that count, but I don't think the number of Khal's seemed too small. All the men in the building were the Kings of the Dothraki. It wouldn't make sense to have 40 of them

Spoiler

 

Every single Dothraki she met wouldn't shut up about  It's obviously the highlight of their social calendar

[watcher of the night]

1 hour ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

You don't even know the definition of a Mary Sue. It's a stupid buzzword first of all. Dany is empowered. She is a strong powerful woman with agency, so I'm not sure why you aren't understanding something so basic? The story isn't over. She can still die. She can die by sword, WW's,  or many other things. Fire is one element. Why is this hard to understand for you?

There you go. From TVtropes:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

“The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.
She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story. The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting; if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal. She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc. Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series. (See Common Mary Sue Traits for more detail on any of these cliches.)”

1, “The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment.”

Teenage girl with big tits riding a big dragon and saving the world. Fat Check.

2, “She's exotically beautiful,” check.

3, “often having an unusual hair or eye color” check and check.

4, “and has a similarly cool and exotic name.” Daenerys Targaryen. Check.

5, “She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas,”

Well in the books it is not so clear but in the show Missandei preached her being wiser than her advisors. So clear check.

6, “ and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting.”

Like riding dragons, being fire proof: check and check.

7, “She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.”

Well her only “flaw” is being arrogant, self-entitled and egositic but it is seen by Dany fanboys as the sign of “strong empowered woman” so clear check.

8, “She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story.” Big fat check.

9, “The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions,”

Check, check check and check. Barristan, Dario, Tyrion ... basically everyone.

10, “even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting;”
Like Jorah, big fat check.

11, “if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal.”

Like the astaporian slaver guy, and he was burnt alive so another big fat check.

12, “She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc. “

Like being Rheagar’s little sister. Check.

13, “Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series.”

Check, chek and chek.

Dany is the dictionary perfect definition of Mary Sue. I can understand the fanboyism but why do you or anyone else would deny it?

 

[Skithia Snow]

55 minutes ago, watcher of the night said:

 

6, “ and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting.”

Like riding dragons, being fire proof: check and check.

 

 

Wait...... GRRM created a character - a main one in his saga at that - that's not canon????? You do remember that he had her in the books from the beginning right?

 

[khal drogon]

1 hour ago, watcher of the night said:

T you go. Fro'm  TVtropes:

 

 tp:If//tvtrt N.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

“The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.
She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story. The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting; if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal. She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc. Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series. (See Common Mary Sue Traits for more detail on any of these cliches.)”

1, “The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment.”

Teenage girl with big tits riding a big dragon and saving the world. Fat Check.

2, “She's exotically beautiful,” check.

3, “often having an unusual hair or eye color” check and check.

4, “and has a similarly cool and exotic name.” Daenerys Targaryen. Check.

5, “She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas,”

Well in the books it is not so clear but in the show Missandei preached her being wiser than her advisors. So clear check.

6, “ and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting.”

Like riding dragons, being fire proof: check and check.

7, “She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.”

Well her only “flaw” is being arrogant, self-entitled and egositic but it is seen by Dany fanboys as the sign of “strong empowered woman” so clear check.

8, “She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story.” Big fat check.

9, “The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions,”

Check, check check and check. Barristan, Dario, Tyrion ... basically everyone.

10, “even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting;”
Like Jorah, big fat check.

11, “if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal.”

Like the astaporian slaver guy, and he was burnt alive so another big fat check.

12, “She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc. “

Like being Rheagar’s little sister. Check.

13, “Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series.”

Check, chek and chek.

Dany is the dictionary perfect definition of Mary Sue. I can understand the fanboyism but why do you or anyone else would deny it?

 

To address your points 

1. What does that says about wish fulfillment? Do we now have her complete story?

2. Not a good indicator. But I give this to you.

3. Same as above. 

4. Stannis Baratheon looks exotic to me. Does that make him a Sue? 

5. What else do you expect Missandei to tell? Don't expect her saying anything different than what Kevan will tell about Tywin. What skill sets do you really think she have?

She was wise enough to plan battles and strategies. But governing a city? Not much.

6. Riding dragons is not rare to the canon. A dragon riding race is already established. I give you the showonly fire proof thing. 

7.Poor argument when you need fanboy opinions to make your point. You have listed some. Some others include self-righteousness, cruelty,etc. Which are not so endearing. Otherwise why I see more haters than fanboys of her?

8. What is dramatic in her back story? That she is raped and abused by her brother. Other than the 'Stormborn' thing nothing is dramatic in her back story. If you want more dramatic story, what about TOJ, Song of Ice and Fire, hidden prince story?

9. Wait. Is that the case? Jorah lusts her because she resembles his ex-wife. I don't sense admiration for beauty from him. Barristan does his duty to who he thinks he should serve. Her beauty, courage, wit has nothing to do with. Tyrion had no other way than helping her. I don't see him impressed by any of her virtues in the show.

10. What makes you think Jorah is antisocial and untrusting?

11. Like Mirri Maz Duur or Mossador. Or the prostitute that helps the Harpy. In the books there are characters like Xaro and Green Grace that attempts to sympathize us with the Harpy and shows us Daenerys failures.

12. And there was Rhaegar's son who is also the son of the beloved Stark family's blue rose. Dany is also the daughter of the Mad king one of the vilest characters in the series.

13. Now list me the problems Dany has really solved?

Your every argument falls apart because of BS reasoning. Nice Try. But Dany is far from Mary Sue in both books and the show. In fact there are other characters closer to the term than her.

The most accepted definition of the term says "it is a self inserted character who was perfect, never fails and is liked by everyone he/she meets".

Dany has more flaws than say Jon, she fails in Meereen and her actions has made her disliked by slaves and slavers alike.

Dany will be a Mary Sue if she miraculously had solved Slaver's Bay's problems and was immediately beloved by people of Westeros when she returns then you have a case. 

[khal drogon]

1 hour ago, watcher of the night said:

T you go. Fro'm  TVtropes:

 

 tp:If//tvtrt N.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

“The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment. She's exotically beautiful, often having an unusual hair or eye color, and has a similarly cool and exotic name. She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas, and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting. She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.
She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story. The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions, even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting; if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal. She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc. Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series. (See Common Mary Sue Traits for more detail on any of these cliches.)”

1, “The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment.”

Teenage girl with big tits riding a big dragon and saving the world. Fat Check.

2, “She's exotically beautiful,” check.

3, “often having an unusual hair or eye color” check and check.

4, “and has a similarly cool and exotic name.” Daenerys Targaryen. Check.

5, “She's exceptionally talented in an implausibly wide variety of areas,”

Well in the books it is not so clear but in the show Missandei preached her being wiser than her advisors. So clear check.

6, “ and may possess skills that are rare or nonexistent in the canon setting.”

Like riding dragons, being fire proof: check and check.

7, “She also lacks any realistic, or at least story-relevant, character flaws — either that or her "flaws" are obviously meant to be endearing.”

Well her only “flaw” is being arrogant, self-entitled and egositic but it is seen by Dany fanboys as the sign of “strong empowered woman” so clear check.

8, “She has an unusual and dramatic Back Story.” Big fat check.

9, “The canon protagonists are all overwhelmed with admiration for her beauty, wit, courage and other virtues, and are quick to adopt her as one of their True Companions,”

Check, check check and check. Barristan, Dario, Tyrion ... basically everyone.

10, “even characters who are usually antisocial and untrusting;”
Like Jorah, big fat check.

11, “if any character doesn't love her, that character gets an extremely unsympathetic portrayal.”

Like the astaporian slaver guy, and he was burnt alive so another big fat check.

12, “She has some sort of especially close relationship to the author's favorite canon character — their love interest, illegitimate child, never-before-mentioned sister, etc. “

Like being Rheagar’s little sister. Check.

13, “Other than that, the canon characters are quickly reduced to awestruck cheerleaders, watching from the sidelines as Mary Sue outstrips them in their areas of expertise and solves problems that have stymied them for the entire series.”

Check, chek and chek.

Dany is the dictionary perfect definition of Mary Sue. I can understand the fanboyism but why do you or anyone else would deny it?

 

To address your points 

1. What does that says about wish fulfillment? Do we now have her complete story?

2. Not a good indicator. But I give this to you.

3. Same as above. 

4. Stannis Baratheon looks exotic to me. Does that make him a Sue? 

5. What else do you expect Missandei to tell? Don't expect her saying anything different than what Kevan will tell about Tywin. What skill sets do you really think she have?

She was wise enough to plan battles and strategies. But governing a city? Not much.

6. Riding dragons is not rare to the canon. A dragon riding race is already established. I give you the showonly fire proof thing. 

7.Poor argument when you need fanboy opinions to make your point. You have listed some. Some others include self-righteousness, cruelty,etc. Which are not so endearing. Otherwise why I see more haters than fanboys of her?

8. What is dramatic in her back story? That she is raped and abused by her brother. Other than the 'Stormborn' thing nothing is dramatic in her back story. If you want more dramatic story, what about TOJ, Song of Ice and Fire, hidden prince story?

9. Wait. Is that the case? Jorah lusts her because she resembles his ex-wife. I don't sense admiration for beauty from him. Barristan does his duty to who he thinks he should serve. Her beauty, courage, wit has nothing to do with. Tyrion had no other way than helping her. I don't see him impressed by any of her virtues in the show.

10. What makes you think Jorah is antisocial and untrusting?

11. Like Mirri Maz Duur or Mossador. Or the prostitute that helps the Harpy. In the books there are characters like Xaro and Green Grace that attempts to sympathize us with the Harpy and shows us Daenerys failures.

12. And there was Rhaegar's son who is also the son of the beloved Stark family's blue rose. Dany is also the daughter of the Mad king one of the vilest characters in the series.

13. Now list me the problems Dany has really solved?

Your every argument falls apart because of BS reasoning. Nice Try. But Dany is far from Mary Sue in both books and the show. In fact there are other characters closer to the term than her.

The most accepted definition of the term says "it is a self inserted character who was perfect, never fails and is liked by everyone he/she meets".

Dany has more flaws than say Jon, she fails in Meereen and her actions has made her disliked by slaves and slavers alike.

Dany will be a Mary Sue if she miraculously had solved Slaver's Bay's problems and was immediately beloved by people of Westeros when she returns then you have a case.