Zara Zokan Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jack Bauer 24 said: And....you still aren't understanding something so basic. This is comical now. Can you explain this basic thing to me, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Zara Zokan said: Can you explain this basic thing to me, though? Its been explained numerous times already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksky Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Daenerys being fireproof and Dothraki submitting to her after she kills those Khals is consistent with season 1, in which it was stressed out that to get a khalasar you have to kill its khal. Dothraki follow strength/power, not blood (they're like a pride of lions). What Daenerys did in the latest episode was a show of strength. The show has compressed her journey of self-discovery that the next book will have (if it ever gets to exist). She's no longer Mhysa, she has embraced her house's motto. 'Fire and Blood'. The show doesn't have hundreds of minutes to spend on the intricacies of Dothraki culture and politics as well as a multitude of secondary Dothraki characters. They focused on the main ones and the main issue at hand. Her fire immunity makes sense within the context of the show, due to what had been shown in season 1 but I wish it hand't been so. Just another brick added to her special snowflake wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedShadow Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Zara Zokan said: "I was a widow to a great Khal". It seems to be implying that the Dothraki are some kind of democracy lead by a Great Khal. No, Drogo is referred to as a Great Khal in Season 1, I think at his wedding. I think it's just a compliment/formal name for a Khal with achievements 3 hours ago, Zara Zokan said: the idea of Dothraki khals voting as one body to decide which villages to pillage is laughable. They're not voting on shit. They're discussing their plans. 3 hours ago, Zara Zokan said: It's consistent, like them not being able to rape a former khaleesi, then threatening to rape Dany after she defies them. Because they had not officially deemed her a member of the Dosh Khaleen. Her defiance of tradition by declaring herself a Khaleesi in her own right meant that she was not fully considered a former khaleesi. 3 hours ago, Zara Zokan said: Like the Dosh Khaleen being "advisors" instead of having political/religious authority. But they still have authority? Where were they turned into advisers? 3 hours ago, Zara Zokan said: Hell, even their memory is inconsistent; Moro didn't know anything about Dany in ep1, now magically knows her entire life story. Is it impossible to believe he just asked around for more information on her? Seriously, this stuff isn't hard to figure out. You're ignoring logic here, dude. 3 hours ago, Zara Zokan said: Yeah, no... sand doesn't really catch fire that quickly. The sand didn't. The wood pillars, the wood walls, the wood structure, the entirely straw roof, and the oil in the braziers did. 3 hours ago, Zara Zokan said: Props to Dany for bringing an entire culture to its knees using just a brazier, though! 4 braziers that she used to burn the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen down with all of the Khals inside. She defeated them, therefore she now controls the people they controlled. It also just so happens that there's a specific prophecy about someone who will unite the Dothraki into one big khalasar.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I find it hilarious that people argue that it is canon that some Targaryens are fire proof, when the author has stated definitively that they are not; that Dany's fire experience was a one time off thing to hatch the dragons. Show Fireproof Dany is a D&D change, nothing more nothing less. One can argue whether it makes sense within the story that they are telling, but since their story is so often, well lets say, not consistent, Dany being fire proof will probably be irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, SerMixalot said: I find it hilarious that people argue that it is canon that some Targaryens are fire proof, when the author has stated definitively that they are not; that Dany's fire experience was a one time off thing to hatch the dragons. Show Fireproof Dany is a D&D change, nothing more nothing less. One can argue whether it makes sense within the story that they are telling, but since their story is so often, well lets say, not consistent, Dany being fire proof will probably be irrelevant. Actually, Martin is the inconsistent one in this case. In the books, one minute Dany is fireproof, the next she's not. In the show, Dany is consistently fireproof from the very first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Actually, no, Dany was burnt in Astapor when she said Dracyris to get the Unsullied. She has a higher tolerance for heat that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Hmmm Stannis burns people for the greater good=Evil Dany burns people for power=badass and don't even try to argue that ALL of the men in that building were threatening her, most were silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastet Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Also, you can't take GRRM's word as absolute fact anyway. He's a good author who is trying to keep the end game of his series a surprise. That means he's quite capable of putting out misinformation to avoid people figuring out how all the plots will tie together. Not to mention that it has been so long since he made that claim he could very well have reversed his decision even if he was honest when he claimed it was a one time event. Good authors often surprise even themselves when plots start coming together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Vastet said: Also, you can't take GRRM's word as absolute fact anyway. He's a good author who is trying to keep the end game of his series a surprise. That means he's quite capable of putting out misinformation to avoid people figuring out how all the plots will tie together. Not to mention that it has been so long since he made that claim he could very well have reversed his decision even if he was honest when he claimed it was a one time event. Good authors often surprise even themselves when plots start coming together. hahahaha the author of ASOIAF's word cant be taken as absolute fact. It's his creation. As an aside, he has many many Targaryen characters get burned but whatever...... Knowing GRRM and his integrity, if he did NEED Dany to be fireproof in the future he would fit the scenario to the facts, ie another highly unique and magical moment, but I doubt he would do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, SerMixalot said: Actually, no, Dany was burnt in Astapor when she said Dracyris to get the Unsullied. She has a higher tolerance for heat that is all. Not sure if you're responding to me, but this doesn't refute anything I said. Dany isn't burnt in Astapor in the show, where she's consistently fireproof. In the books, she's only fireproof for one scene, where the only explanation appears to be magic, which I find to be lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zara Zokan Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 35 minutes ago, WingedShadow said: No, Drogo is referred to as a Great Khal in Season 1, I think at his wedding. I think it's just a compliment/formal name for a Khal with achievements They're not voting on shit. They're discussing their plans. Because they had not officially deemed her a member of the Dosh Khaleen. Her defiance of tradition by declaring herself a Khaleesi in her own right meant that she was not fully considered a former khaleesi. But they still have authority? Where were they turned into advisers? Is it impossible to believe he just asked around for more information on her? Seriously, this stuff isn't hard to figure out. You're ignoring logic here, dude. The sand didn't. The wood pillars, the wood walls, the wood structure, the entirely straw roof, and the oil in the braziers did. 4 braziers that she used to burn the Temple of the Dosh Khaleen down with all of the Khals inside. She defeated them, therefore she now controls the people they controlled. It also just so happens that there's a specific prophecy about someone who will unite the Dothraki into one big khalasar.......... Okay, I suppose the Great Khal thing could just signify Drogo's status as a very rich and powerful khalasar, sure. Except, Dothraki don't work together like that. That's why the whole no-violence in Vaes Dothrak is such a big deal. Because once they're out of Vaes Dothrak, the khalasars that have disputes with one another wage war. She had already called herself queen/khaleesi when being brought before Khal Moro before she was revealed to be Drogo's widow, and he immediately showed respect to her and no longer tried to rape her once she revealed who she was, even if she wasn't officially in the Dosh Khaleen club yet. Well, not too much respect, because they couldn't even give her a horse when she was riding into Vaes Dothrak. "We are not queens here, but we advise the khals". They've really downplayed the power of the Dosh Khaleen this season by having the fate of a former khaleesi being decided by this khal confederation thing instead of the actual Dosh Khaleen, a very important political and religious authority for the Dothraki; all they do is be petty to Dany for being Valyrian, despite having approved on her 5 seasons ago. Oh, apart from the Lhazareen khaleesi, who seems a bit too politically unimportant to be a khaleesi (It seems a bit of a stretch that a Khal would actually marry a random girl behind a well in Lhazar than just rape her once/keep her as a slave, but that's just a minor nitpick really). Yes. It makes total sense that one foreign woman who has been accused of being a "witch" and is known to have conspired with a sorceress and have participated in blood magic in the past, who burned down the most sacred temple to the Dothraki, murdering all of the Khals instead of conquering them on the field, and emerges from the temple unburnt, would be followed by the Dothraki instead of killed on the spot. (I do believe that Dany will be the Mare Who Mounts The World in the books, but the way that they got her to this position made. no. sense.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vastet Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 "hahahaha the author of ASOIAF's word cant be taken as absolute fact. It's his creation." Which does nothing other than support my argument. Come back when you have an argument of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedShadow Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 47 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said: Except, Dothraki don't work together like that. That's why the whole no-violence in Vaes Dothrak is such a big deal. Because once they're out of Vaes Dothrak, the khalasars that have disputes with one another wage war. Exactly. This meeting is solely to discuss plans while they're in a place where they are not able to freely wage war/ 47 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said: She had already called herself queen/khaleesi when being brought before Khal Moro before she was revealed to be Drogo's widow, and he immediately showed respect to her and no longer tried to rape her once she revealed who she was, even if she wasn't officially in the Dosh Khaleen club yet. Well, not too much respect, because they couldn't even give her a horse when she was riding into Vaes Dothrak. He stopped because she is the widow of a khal, and it is forbidden to lie with the widow of a khal. Once they reached Vaes Dothrak and the exact extent of what she's done was revealed, that doesn't necessarily apply anymore. 47 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said: "We are not queens here, but we advise the khals". They've really downplayed the power of the Dosh Khaleen this season by having the fate of a former khaleesi being decided by this khal confederation thing instead of the actual Dosh Khaleen, a very important political and religious authority for the Dothraki; all they do is be petty to Dany for being Valyrian, despite having approved on her 5 seasons ago. Well, I mean, technically part of their job is to advise, but it's moreso because they're seers and interpret omens, so they advise in that way. They've never really been said to be absolute leaders of the Dothraki ever. They're just high in the social hierarchy of the Dothraki. And they specifically state that it is up to the khalar vezhven to decide whether or not she joins the Dosh Khaleen because Dany broke tradition. 47 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said: Oh, apart from the Lhazareen khaleesi, who seems a bit too politically unimportant to be a khaleesi (It seems a bit of a stretch that a Khal would actually marry a random girl behind a well in Lhazar than just rape her once/keep her as a slave, but that's just a minor nitpick really). Not really, I can believe it, especially since it's been said that some Khaleesi are basically nothing to a Khal, while some are like Dany and hold a lot of respect 47 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said: Yes. It makes total sense that one foreign woman who has been accused of being a "witch" and is known to have conspired with a sorceress and have participated in blood magic in the past, who burned down the most sacred temple to the Dothraki, murdering all of the Khals instead of conquering them on the field, and emerges from the temple unburnt, would be followed by the Dothraki instead of killed on the spot. It does. Dothraki only despise blood magic, and Dany did not use blood magic in this instance. It's never stated a Khal has to be conquered on the field. You can't shed blood in Vaes Dothrak, and Dany has shown that fire literally can't harm her. If all of the Khals were too weak to defeat a small woman, what are they gonna be able to do? They'll see Dany as strong. She burned down their sacred holy temple and defeated all of the khals and yet was completely unharmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 2 hours ago, SerMixalot said: I find it hilarious that people argue that it is canon that some Targaryens are fire proof, when the author has stated definitively that they are not; that Dany's fire experience was a one time off thing to hatch the dragons. He said that long before he wrote ADWD - where she steps in the path of Drogon's dargonfire in the Pit and like Drogo's Pyre, loses her hair and clothing to the flames, but the rest of her is fine. So, George changed his mind, or didn't want to give anything away when he was asked that question. Either way, it doesn't matter. She's fireproof in both show and books at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 1 hour ago, ShadowKitteh said: He said that long before he wrote ADWD - where she steps in the path of Drogon's dargonfire in the Pit and like Drogo's Pyre, loses her hair and clothing to the flames, but the rest of her is fine. So, George changed his mind, or didn't want to give anything away when he was asked that question. Either way, it doesn't matter. She's fireproof in both show and books at this point. Well, except for the fact that that is simply not true. At the beginning of her last chapter in ADWD her burns are healing. SOOOOOOO. you MIGHT want to try a reread Here is a clue "Her skin was pink and tender, and a pale milky fluid was leaking from her cracked palms, but her burns were healing." SO tell me again how she wasn't burnt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Vastet said: "hahahaha the author of ASOIAF's word cant be taken as absolute fact. It's his creation." Which does nothing other than support my argument. Come back when you have an argument of your own. Well except the words of the creator of a product, when relating to the creation he is creating, should be taken as solid. Until YOU can prove otherwise, see above how Dany gets burnt in ADWD then say you have any argument whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedShadow Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 15 minutes ago, SerMixalot said: "Her skin was pink and tender, and a pale milky fluid was leaking from her cracked palms, but her burns were healing." The beginning of the paragraph seems to imply that she is referring to friction burns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, WingedShadow said: The beginning of the paragraph seems to imply that she is referring to friction burns. scrapes don't cause blisters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedShadow Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 22 minutes ago, SerMixalot said: scrapes don't cause blisters Friction burns can cause blisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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