Queen Unburnt Rises Again...Yes there shall be SPOILERS

[ThePrinceThatKnewNothing]

Dany was badass in this episode, I loved that she did it without Drogon although I can't wait to see the dragons again. 

In a way Dany is the Mother of Mountain's?  The dothraki prophecy says thatone day all the khalasaars will unite under the mother of mountains. They did. 

As for Dany being AA, why can't she and Jon both be AA? It Doesn't have to be one person really?

[Charlie Hustle]

The Dothraki really need to fire their builders. Obviously their stone floors are not fire resistant.

[Greg B]

Heheh...I've read it. People always link to that piece. It's fair to say I disagree, on the basis that I've read the end of Storm and the end of Dance and I can compare Dany's character at both points.

 

Quote

 

Meereen was not her home, and never would be. It was a city of strange men with strange gods and stranger hair, of slavers wrapped in fringed tokars, where grace was earned through whoring, butchery was art, and dog was a delicacy. Meereen would always be the Harpy’s city, and Daenerys could not be a harpy.

Never, said the grass, in the gruff tones of Jorah Mormont. You were warned, Your Grace. Let this city be, I said. Your war is in Westeros, I told you.

 

...and...

 

Quote

 

“I had to take Meereen or see my children starve along the march.” Dany could still see the trail of corpses she had left behind her crossing the Red Waste. It was not a sight she wished to see again. “I had to take Meereen to feed my people.”

You took Meereen, he told her, yet still you lingered.

“To be a queen.”

You are a queen, her bear said. In Westeros.

"It is such a long way," she complained. 'I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl."

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.

"Fire and Blood," Daenerys told the swaying grass.

Rather than enjoy this epiphany when talking to the grass of the Dothraki sea at the end of Dance, Dany could just as well have had it when talking to the real Jorah at the end of Storm. Instead, she decided she didn't know how to rule, so she would learn by...ruling a foreign city-state. But at the end of all that, the character returns to what she was all along: Conquering Dragon Queen.

My view. Cool with me that others have different ones.

ETA: Sorry for the crappy quotes. My westeros.org mastery is not masterful.

 

[House Cambodia]

2 minutes ago, hallam said:

GRRM appears to be showing how people become tyrants. Danny has 134 people crucified for revenge. She does a lot of other ugly stuff as well. And that is because she has no idea how to rule.

Yes, that's exactly right. He shows us how very human failings combined with the best intentions eventually result in evil. His characters are far from the 2D caricatures some people seem to crave.

[House Cambodia]

8 minutes ago, hallam said:

Emilia Clarke said it was her. The big difference being that Dany gets to be totally kick ass while Cersei is having poo thrown at her. Can you see why one actress would be keener on the part than the other?

Also, Emilia said that she'd do it if it was essential to the plot. It's become a cliche but here I think it is clear that this was no 'sexploitation' scene. It was a very deliberate parallel with S1E10 to show how vast the scale of her achievements and ambitions have grown.

[Greg B]

3 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Yes, that's exactly right. He shows us how very human failings combined with the best intentions eventually result in evil. His characters are far from the 2D caricatures some people seem to crave.

I don't think Dany in the first three books is a 2D caricature. I don't think she's a 2D caricature at the end of Dance when she's gotten back to the character she was at the end of Storm.

[House Cambodia]

Just now, Greg B said:

I don't think Dany in the first three books is a 2D caricature. I don't think she's a 2D caricature at the end of Dance when she's gotten back to the character she was at the end of Storm.

Sorry, no I didn't mean Dany in this case; I've just replied to someone complaining about how Sansa has changed. 

 

Btw, I noted your response to me above - we can agree to differ - it's what literary criticism is all about! Plus we get to see who's right when the last volume is out in about 15 years' time!

[hallam]

3 minutes ago, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

Dany was badass in this episode, I loved that she did it without Drogon although I can't wait to see the dragons again. 

In a way Dany is the Mother of Mountain's?  The dothraki prophecy says thatone day all the khalasaars will unite under the mother of mountains. They did. 

As for Dany being AA, why can't she and Jon both be AA? It Doesn't have to be one person really?

The mother of mountains is the hill over VD. Only men are allows to walk on it.

The show is certainly not a good guide to the books at this point. I doubt that the temple goes up in flames like it did in the show. But some serious stuff goes down in VD:

Quote

Vaes Dothrak is large enough to house every man of every khalasar, should all the khals return to the Mother at once. The crones have prophesied that one day that shall come to pass, and so Vaes Dothrak must be ready to embrace all of its children.

Which explains next weeks episode. The rest of the Dothraki are going to be gathering. Danys army will swell.

Quote

"Eroeh?" asked Dany, remembering the frightened child she had saved outside the city of the Lamb Men.

"Mago seized her, who is Khal Jhaqo's bloodrider now," said Jhogo. "He mounted her high and low and gave her to his khal, and Jhaqo gave her to his other bloodriders. They were six. When they were done with her, they cut her throat."

"It was her fate, Khaleesi," said Aggo.

If I look back I am lost. "It was a cruel fate," Dany said, "yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I swear it by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh."

 

[joaozinm]

i'm really surprised that there are people that really liked that scene...  a woman agsnt 5 khals and she wins with a candle and a lock door? She shouldn't be even allowed to talk.... And what is so inflammable?  And all the milenar traditions of dothraki are behind because she shows her tit thru the fire?

[Noveson]

7 hours ago, jbob said:

No, that's some internet bullshit. And I don't see how this makes all Targs fireproof. Viserys died remember. And Jon got burned. It's something unique to her and her alone. Perhaps the same magic that brought dragons also gave her this gift.

And I was thinking, if Jon and Dany is ice and fire maybe Jon is incapable of becoming a whitewalker. r something like that.

Misread

[GeorgeIAF]

I liked the scene though ... maybe it would have been way cooler with Drogon raising hell, but it is what it is.

[The Chequered Raven]

10 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

  Do all of you "they did it for the cgi budget" people think that that scene was cheap?

Yes, I think a scene Dany walking out of a burning house is definitely cheaper as a scene Dany walking out a burning house with a dragon flying around...

 

But maybe I'm wrong, I'm not a CGI-expert.

[[Deleted]]

1 hour ago, hallam said:

Emilia Clarke said it was her. The big difference being that Dany gets to be totally kick ass while Cersei is having poo thrown at her. Can you see why one actress would be keener on the part than the other?

The walk of shame couldn't be done on a closed set either.

I know it was Emilia Clarke now, but when I originally asked my question I didn't.

For the record, Lena Headey is completely fine with nudity. She's done it in her other films. But at that time, she was pregnant, and she also has some tattoos on her body. She also said she wasn't sure if she would have been able to handle that particular scene, emotionally. So yes, she had plenty of compelling reasons not to.

[Zombies That Were Promised]

I want to like the scene, but if I was a Dothraki, the unburnt silver haired girl walking out of a flaming buildilng where she just killed all my Khals... I would immediately call out her as a witch.  (IIRC, the Dothrak hate things like witches.)

But they do recognize strength.  They recognize their idols, the horses, etc.  And the only answer for Dany to prove herself is Drogon's appearance, as cliche as we all expected him to appear.  For Dany to truly prove she is the Stallion that mounts the World.... Drogon should have been there and the one to do it.

[Lord Friendzone]

2 hours ago, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

Dany was badass in this episode, I loved that she did it without Drogon although I can't wait to see the dragons again. 

In a way Dany is the Mother of Mountain's?  The dothraki prophecy says thatone day all the khalasaars will unite under the mother of mountains. They did. 

As for Dany being AA, why can't she and Jon both be AA? It Doesn't have to be one person really?

Why does it have to be both? Why we need two and another parallel? Why it can't be one and everything points to Dany and not Jon. Melisandre was wrong about Stannis and most likely with Jon too. Melisandre pronounce him Prince That Was promised but that doesn't make him one. Even in the books clues points to Dany.

[Lord Friendzone]

2 hours ago, hallam said:

I also think that we will find Danny is AA and Jon is AA and possibly Tyrion as well. I am still a believer that book Jon rises from his funeral pyre. Which would mean that Danny and Jon are both reborn in fire. The show has Danny doing the same trick twice.

Don't think so. AAR/PTWP/STMTW is one and the same prophecy...just different version based on culture and region. Which is Daeny and you can believe it but resurrection is more likely and Shireeen will pay for Jon's rebirth. She's at Castle Black with Mel and Selyse. It will pretty much play out same in the books like in the show. What show changed is Daeny being fireproof and I mean not even her hair can be burtn.

[Mourneblade]

Dany has shown at least 5 times now that heat and fire do not bother her. S1E1 bath, Grabbing the Eggs on the grill, S1E10 the blood magic ritual, Temple of the Undying, and now this. I think he has the basic fire resistance of a Dragon. That does not mean she would be Immune to Magical Fire like Wildfire, or whatever fire killed the Dragons in the Cataclysm.

Additionally Tribal people might be suspicious of Witches/Witchcraft but that is usually done when they have the upper hand and when on a suspicious level. This was in your face Power. This has the same effect as Jon rising from the dead and the Wildlings not wanting to immediately toss him on a fire. Daario's look on his face was nothing short of shock. It is one thing to hear stories, it is quite another to actually see a woman walk through fire unburnt.

 

Additionally Dany speaking up during the meeting and not being struck down, has everything to do with her demeanor, and genetics. Because she is pale skin, and has platinum hair, she holds a certain fascination among the Khals. They see what Drogo saw in her, it is insulting, but amusing at the same time. Cortez took down the entire Aztec nation with 400 men in part do to their superstition and different skin, hair, and eye color. Not only that this woman has conquered all of Slavers bay. She is an enigma to them, especially when she calls them out for their pettiness. 

 

This showed the Dothraki that her power comes from her, not her dragons, not her army, not her mercenaries, Her. It was an epic scene, and certainly not Nudity for its own sake. I am just surprised D&D actually wrote this lol.

[JagLover]

Yes you can criticise the scene as being a little too convenient, though this can be explained in a variety of ways.

I also don't believe it will happen exactly this way in the books.

What do we all think will happen in WOW though?, it seems a fair bet that Dany gathers all the Dothraki to her. How long will that take though?, at ADWD pace I can see chapters upon chapters of politicking and monologuing. In the show we have a few 2-3 minute scenes and then that final showdown, which was dramatic and very satisfying. 

There isn't time to drag out the story anymore and Dany is finally interesting again!

 

[redriver]

Damn fine nudity,though.

[darksellsword]

12 hours ago, tmug said:

My thoughts exactly. I think it so-happens that D&D twist it into saying Dany wrecked shit up all by herself to hide the actual fact that they decided to write out a costly Drogon CGI budget. Does their current portrayal work? Sure. Do I think it would have been more effective to use Drogon, yes. 

It's wouldn't have been Drogon saves the day thing, it could have been written out to show that SHE controls this gigantic, fire-breathing dragon AND can survive fire! 

But it was easier on the budget and the special effects crew to have someone grabbing a flaming hot pyre and then CGI some flames around Dany.

It had Georges writing all over it for me. of course Dany would use the dosh khaleen to overthrow the khals, it made perfect sense. It was much better than drogon flying in to burn them all.