Suddenly Davos remembers Stannis and Shireen?

[sifth]

22 minutes ago, messem said:

 

I've come to the conclusion that you're trolling. 

 

You beat me to it. The yoyo keeps saying the maps aren't the point, then brings them up again in his next post.

[baxter]

13 minutes ago, Morky_Pep said:

I can't believe people are here defending this nonsense. Forget the timeline it is not important.

Please. I beg you. PLEASEEEEEEE. Explain how it is in character for Davos to care more about the resurrecting of Jon than to ask about what happened to Stannis and Shireen. Please explain it. I am looking for a logical answer but there isn't any.

Davos has been shown throughout the show as majorly disliking magic. And yet hes the one who asks Melisandre to do it. He even says that her magic is "miracles". That is not in character. This is the guy trying to convince Stannis not to use Melisandre in battle at the Blackwater. This is the guy who tried to MURDER her because of her magic. Please explain his motivation there.

How does Davos suddenly care more about Jon Snow who he's barely met. That he can't even ask what happened to Shireen. The girl that taught him how to read. The girl he loved. Jon is more important ?!?! I can maybe understand not having time to freak out on Mel during the hostage situation. But Jon snow's possible resurrection is more important than the people he loved and served his entire life. :/ Please explain his motivation here. 

 

Why can't people just accept that something is wrong here. This is not a "nitpick" this is a valid criticism of the show. Davos does not have a consistent characterization. Maybe somehow you can make the timeline work, but you can't make this character motivation work. I'm sure some of you will try. So convince me. How does this make sense?

Davos isn't a fool.  He sees Mel at the Wall (and I believe there is a scene last season when this happens and he asks about Stannis while she doesn't reply).  He has to suspect Stannis is dead/defeated at that point.  It's likely he's gathering up his wits to ask Mel this (or let her get her crap together) when he goes out to see Jon dead.  You have to understand he'd already be in shock knowing his king has been defeated.  He then the shock of Jon's death.  At that point it all unfolds in crisis fashion.  

Seems logical he'd set aside the need to know what happened to Stannis and Shireen to survive the ordeal at the wall.  He believed in both Jon and Stannis.  That's a huge amount of information/grief/shock to process over a few days.  

And yes, I do think a RESURRECTION trumps what happened to the little girl that taught him to read.  Your world would be utterly rocked if you saw someone rise from the dead.

[lancerman]

4 minutes ago, Morky_Pep said:

I can't believe people are here defending this nonsense. Forget the timeline it is not important.

Please. I beg you. PLEASEEEEEEE. Explain how it is in character for Davos to care more about the resurrecting of Jon than to ask about what happened to Stannis and Shireen. Please explain it. I am looking for a logical answer but there isn't any.

Davos has been shown throughout the show as majorly disliking magic. And yet hes the one who asks Melisandre to do it. He even says that her magic is "miracles". That is not in character. This is the guy trying to convince Stannis not to use Melisandre in battle at the Blackwater. This is the guy who tried to MURDER her because of her magic. Please explain his motivation there.

How does Davos suddenly care more about Jon Snow who he's barely met. That he can't even ask what happened to Shireen. The girl that taught him how to read. The girl he loved. Jon is more important ?!?! I can maybe understand not having time to freak out on Mel during the hostage situation. But Jon snow's possible resurrection is more important than the people he loved and served his entire life. :/ Please explain his motivation here. 

 

Why can't people just accept that something is wrong here. This is not a "nitpick" this is a valid criticism of the show. Davos does not have a consistent characterization. Maybe somehow you can make the timeline work, but you can't make this character motivation work. I'm sure some of you will try. So convince me. How does this make sense?

Davos asks Mel immediately upon her return. Mel says everyone dies without specifics of it. He looks distraught and just lets her go since she clearly isn't saying anymore. 

A few hours later he finds Jon's dead body, is swept up in a mutiny with the NW threatening to kill him. Then a wildlings rebellion about 24 hours later. Jon is ressurected. Davos helps him. Once all the business with Jon is done over the course of 2-3 days..

THE VERY NEXT SCENE DAVOS IS IN HE ASKS MEL AGAIN. 

If thats implausible to you, that Davos only asked twice in 2-3 days with a murder, mutiny, wildlings siege, Ressurection, and execution in the middle... Then the problem is with you, not the show. 

Sorry this thread is the epitome of why the people who constantly complain about the show get a bad rep. 

[FoyeTwenty Boston]

Sansa and Theon were traveling on foot originally, then horseback by I imagine indirect routes off the King's Road. Mel had a day head start and probably went straight up the King's Road.

This is a pretty logical break down of the distances here: https://www.quora.com/How-far-is-it-from-Castle-Black-to-Winterfell

By that model it is 208 leagues, or 1158 real-world km or roughly 720 miles. 

With a quick google search of the capabilities of horses it seems the best travel time to be expect is around 30-40 miles a day.  http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=19730

 

So at best it should have taken Mel with a head start and Sansa's crew at least 18 days to travel to Castle Black. 

[Tolsimir]

5 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Davos asks Mel immediately upon her return. Mel says everyone dies without specifics of it. He looks distraught and just lets her go since she clearly isn't saying anymore. 

A few hours later he finds Jon's dead body, is swept up in a mutiny with the NW threatening to kill him. Then a wildlings rebellion about 24 hours later. Jon is ressurected. Davos helps him. Once all the business with Jon is done over the course of 2-3 days..

THE VERY NEXT SCENE DAVOS IS IN HE ASKS MEL AGAIN. 

If thats implausible to you, that Davos only asked twice in 2-3 days with a murder, mutiny, wildlings siege, Ressurection, and execution in the middle... Then the problem is with you, not the show. 

Sorry this thread is the epitome of why the people who constantly complain about the show get a bad rep. 

Good job on ignoring why the guy who hates magic asks Melisandre to resurrect Jon. Also you didn't answer why he asked her to resurrect Jon instead of Stannis. 

[joaozinm]

Davos likes Jon more than Stannis, cause the king was portrayed as a villain and Jon is the show main character.

They needed a smart and nice guy like davos to be aside Jon Snow. I just had hope they would at least motivate him with grief or vengeance for stannis, and not suddenly fall in love with naked jon snow on a table.

[lancerman]

4 minutes ago, Tolsimir said:

Good job on ignoring why the guy who hates magic asks Melisandre to resurrect Jon. Also you didn't answer why he asked her to resurrect Jon instead of Stannis. 

Stupid argument. They had Jon's body. As far as they knew Stannis' body was out in the middle of some battle field rotting away, at best. At worst he was flayed at a Bolton camp. Either way they had Jon not Stannis. Goal post moving. 

[johndance]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Time passes off screen, as is often pointed out.  So, sorry, it's been weeks if not months that have passed since Mel & Davos were together at the wall, it makes no sense except plot contrivance that he has not demanded the entire detailed story of what happened from Mel.  

It's literally been days since Mel got back to the wall..... 

[Morky_Pep]

17 minutes ago, baxter said:

Davos isn't a fool.  He sees Mel at the Wall (and I believe there is a scene last season when this happens and he asks about Stannis while she doesn't reply).  He has to suspect Stannis is dead/defeated at that point.  It's likely he's gathering up his wits to ask Mel this (or let her get her crap together) when he goes out to see Jon dead.  You have to understand he'd already be in shock knowing his king has been defeated.  He then the shock of Jon's death.  At that point it all unfolds in crisis fashion.  

Seems logical he'd set aside the need to know what happened to Stannis and Shireen to survive the ordeal at the wall.  He believed in both Jon and Stannis.  That's a huge amount of information/grief/shock to process over a few days.  

And yes, I do think a RESURRECTION trumps what happened to the little girl that taught him to read.  Your world would be utterly rocked if you saw someone rise from the dead.

lmaoo. but HES the one who came up with it. out of nowhere. This post doesn't convince me. 

[Tolsimir]

Just now, lancerman said:

Stupid argument. They had Jon's body. As far as they knew Stannis' body was out in the middle of some battle field rotting away, at best. At worst he was flayed at a Bolton camp. Either way they had Jon not Stannis. Goal post moving. 

Again you don't answer why Davos suddenly supports magic. And he could have atleast tried to ask if she can somehow help Stannis instead of immediately abandoning him.

[Greg B]

21 minutes ago, baxter said:

He believed in both Jon and Stannis.

I think the show established very well why Davos was so invested in Jon after Stannis was not just killed, but defeated in the field.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbyUSCrY8QA

[johndance]

9 minutes ago, Tolsimir said:

Good job on ignoring why the guy who hates magic asks Melisandre to resurrect Jon. Also you didn't answer why he asked her to resurrect Jon instead of Stannis. 

Wait. Why did he ask Mel to resurrect Jon, who just died hours ago and is laying on a table literally a few feet away instead of Stannis? The same Stannis who died leagues away, several days if not a week ago? Whose body could be fed to Ramsey's dogs for all they know. Hmmmmm

[Morky_Pep]

19 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Davos asks Mel immediately upon her return. Mel says everyone dies without specifics of it. He looks distraught and just lets her go since she clearly isn't saying anymore. 

A few hours later he finds Jon's dead body, is swept up in a mutiny with the NW threatening to kill him. Then a wildlings rebellion about 24 hours later. Jon is ressurected. Davos helps him. Once all the business with Jon is done over the course of 2-3 days..

THE VERY NEXT SCENE DAVOS IS IN HE ASKS MEL AGAIN. 

If thats implausible to you, that Davos only asked twice in 2-3 days with a murder, mutiny, wildlings siege, Ressurection, and execution in the middle... Then the problem is with you, not the show. 

Sorry this thread is the epitome of why the people who constantly complain about the show get a bad rep. 

Mel doesn't say anything when he firsts asks. She shakes her head and walks away. He just accepts that ?!?! And also, I conceded that he might not ask about them during the hostage situation. But afterwards, hes more concerned about resurrecting Jon (out of character) than what happened to his liege lord and his daughter(out of character). Imagine, if two of your closest relatives died, wouldn't you want to know what happened ? Wouldn't that take precedent over everything ? 2 or 3 days ? Davos ate shit and slept those 2 or 3 days but didn't DEMAND to know what happen, to hear every detail????? OUT OF CHARACTER.

And then we get last nights scene, where FINALLY he asks again. Then Brienne comes out of nowhere and starts threatening him ? And he just leaves it. It don't matter anymore because plot. We have Jon Snow now. Who cares about the people I spent my whole life serving.

It is not a problem with me, there are plenty of people who feel the same way. It is lazy writing. Your post didn't convince me.

[Tolsimir]

1 minute ago, johndance said:

Wait. Why did he ask Mel to resurrect Jon, who just died hours ago and is laying on a table literally a few feet away instead of Stannis? The same Stannis who died leagues away, several days if not a week ago? Whose body could be fed to Ramsey's dogs for all they know. Hmmmmm

Let me rephrase that. Why did he first ask her to resurrect Jon instead of seeing if something can still be done for Stannis?

[lancerman]

9 minutes ago, Tolsimir said:

Again you don't answer why Davos suddenly supports magic. And he could have atleast tried to ask if she can somehow help Stannis instead of immediately abandoning him.

When was he ever against magic? I know he was against using magic that required human sacrafice. I know he didn't like Mel burning people.   

I don't remember him being fundamentally against it. Especially for a good use. 

 

 

[FoyeTwenty Boston]

Davos knows something happened to Shireen along with Stannis. That in itself was enough for me to accept why Davos was jumping ship with team Stannis over to Jon so fast.

It was definitely a showrunner decision to just have less issues to focus on in the middle of Jon's resurrection. Mel and Davos fighting to the death over Shireen at the end of last season would have really made it awkward when he had to ask her to resurrect Jon later. But with Brienne there now, it brings it up again later in a logical way with good character interaction. So I think Davos will find out the truth but now weighing it against Jon's resurrection will make him much more conflicted. He would have just killed Mel if he found out before.

 

 

[Dragon in the North]

6 minutes ago, Morky_Pep said:

Mel doesn't say anything when he firsts asks. She shakes her head and walks away. He just accepts that ?!?!

Probably because he, along with the rest of the viewers, knew what Mel shaking her head meant.

[lancerman]

6 minutes ago, Morky_Pep said:

Mel doesn't say anything when he firsts asks. She shakes her head and walks away. He just accepts that ?!?! And also, I conceded that he might not ask about them during the hostage situation. But afterwards, hes more concerned about resurrecting Jon (out of character) than what happened to his liege lord and his daughter(out of character). Imagine, if two of your closest relatives died, wouldn't you want to know what happened ? Wouldn't that take precedent over everything ? 2 or 3 days ? Davos ate shit and slept those 2 or 3 days but didn't DEMAND to know what happen, to hear every detail????? OUT OF CHARACTER.

And then we get last nights scene, where FINALLY he asks again. Then Brienne comes out of nowhere and starts threatening him ? And he just leaves it. It don't matter anymore because plot. We have Jon Snow now. Who cares about the people I spent my whole life serving.

It is not a problem with me, there are plenty of people who feel the same way. It is lazy writing. Your post didn't convince me.

What detail did Davos need to know besides Stannis lost and everyone died? He had no clue anything else happened.

I don't care if my post convinced you because you're looking for things to grasp to so you can conplain about it. 

Davos knew they lost. That's all he needed to know at the moment. 

[joaozinm]

5 minutes ago, lancerman said:

What detail did Davos need to know besides Stannis lost and everyone died? He had no clue anything else happened.

I don't care if my post convinced you because you're looking for things to grasp to so you can conplain about it. 

Davos knew they lost. That's all he needed to know at the mome

That would be okay if last episode he didn't ask again like "i don't know anything"

[Tolsimir]

7 minutes ago, lancerman said:

When was he ever against magic? I know he was against using magic that required human sacrafice. I know he didn't like Mel burning people.   

I don't remember him being fundamentally against it. Especially for a good use. 

 

 

Let's go step by step.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwpyWHDrL8A

''Uniting the 7 kingdoms with blood magic is evil.'' Also he tried to kill Melisandre and opposed her basically until season 6. He saved Gendry from her and was disgusted by her shadow babies.

So now we have Davos hating Mel and her magic and he also tried to kill her once. Then season 5 comes, and Melisandre is basically responsible for the deaths of Shireen and Stannis, the two people who mean the most to Davos besides his own wife.

Now we add this two together. Davos hates mel and her magic -> Mel kills Shireen and indirectly kills Stannis.

Davos' reaction? Plz resurrect Jon Snow. 

Quality writing right here.