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Suddenly Davos remembers Stannis and Shireen?


McAssey

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8 hours ago, lancerman said:

What detail did Davos need to know besides Stannis lost and everyone died? He had no clue anything else happened.

I don't care if my post convinced you because you're looking for things to grasp to so you can conplain about it. 

Davos knew they lost. That's all he needed to know at the moment. 

Why is it that I have a complaint that I am searching for things to complain about it? I want to like the show believe me. I found the Jon and Sansa scenes great, and I even enjoyed Tyrion this episode. That doesn't take away from that Davos's motivations are shifty. Lot's of people have noticed this. I am not the only one. It just isn't in character. You are saying it is. I don't agree with you. That's all there is to say really. 

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I 100% agree. 

Here is a man who, for 5 seasons has detested Melisandre, hell, hes almost been killed for simply disagreeing with her. Here is a man who has offered his life, has lost sons, has lost fingers and done everything for Stannis Baratheon, his King. For 5 seasons he has been the rock in Stannis' wavering storyline. The one who he could always rely on for honest counsel.

 

Its taken 4 episodes for him to show half a moment of care that Stannis is dead and everything he has fought for gone. 4 episodes and we get a "I executed him" and Davos just gulps and then "Oh well!" back to my lord and saviors Melisandre and Snow?

 

Hes not in character at all and its absolutely laughable that people are defending it.

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He just saw a dude come back to life in front of him.

Perhaps he realized he was also following the wrong person.

 

If you remember, Davos was not always 100% on side with stannis.  (Shadow Baby, Burning people, Gendry etc etc etc).  Yes he followed him, but maybe he realizes he was wrong?  

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Stannis literally has a conversation with Jon about Stannis' belief in him and the recognition that there's something peculiar about him. Throw in Mel's foreshadowing of Jon's destiny in previous episodes ("are you a virgin?") and there's plenty reason ON SCREEN to lend credence to the idea that Davos, a man of honor, would be at least somewhat invested in Jon.

What else do we know? There's a band of wildlings that only Jon can really control at any level - important. There's the white walker threat coming that Jon is in charge of defeating and has the most knowledge of - important. Again, more legitimacy behind Davos' thought process.

We don't know what kind of conversations Stannis and Davos and Mel had off-screen regarding Jon so the above line of thinking probably goes even deeper.

And that's ignoring the fact that Davos, the morning after being blindsided w/ Stannis' defeat, just walked up on the lord commander murdered by the men who voted him "into office". Afterwards he was immediately at death's doorstep with Alliser and the boys trying to break in. 

Stannis just died, his hypothetical Warden of the North was murdered by his brothers and Davos was the first to see. It makes perfect sense.

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I was more unhappy with his response to Mel shaking her head. I feel like Davos would have wanted answers and would have realised Mel's involvement. I hope his feelings towards Mel change when he realises she burned Shireen alive. He adored that little girl.

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1 hour ago, Xarkar said:

He just saw a dude come back to life in front of him.

Perhaps he realized he was also following the wrong person.

 

If you remember, Davos was not always 100% on side with stannis.  (Shadow Baby, Burning people, Gendry etc etc etc).  Yes he followed him, but maybe he realizes he was wrong?  

So Davos, who is against burning people, shadow babies, the sacrifice of Gendry, goes to THE VERY PERSON WHO CONDUCTS THESE THINGS to resurrect a guy he barely knows?

After the resurrection I can suspend disbelief that Davos suddenly comes around to Team Lord of Light, but the Melisandre love in happened before that.

 

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1 hour ago, The Bear said:

I was more unhappy with his response to Mel shaking her head. I feel like Davos would have wanted answers and would have realised Mel's involvement. I hope his feelings towards Mel change when he realises she burned Shireen alive. He adored that little girl.

Why should he have realized Mel's involvement?  Stannis was in a terrible position when Davos left, having just lost his supplies and siege weapons, not to mention his leading an army of unreliable sell swords. The Boltons were well provisioned and were used to harsh weather conditions. The simple answer was that he lost the battle. As for Mel shaking her head, Davos and the rest of the viewing audience knew exactly what that meant.

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Actually it does not make any sense the way Davos is behaving. He should have stayed on Melisandre demanding to know why she was the only to come back from Stannis' forces. That in itself is should raise flags. Melisandre is able to make it back to Castle Black alone but Stannis would not try to get his wife and daughter, this daughter who is the last true Baratheon, to safety with a contingent of men to guarantee their safety as soon as things started to go south? 

Forgetting all about the timeline (how long did it take Jon and Tyrion to make the trip?) of both Mel's and Sansa & her company to get to Castle Black, This entire season has been about people doing complete 180s in their personalities to fit the story. 

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Or maybe there wasn't any good time to bring it up? Or maybe, there wasn't any place that was dramatically write to bring it in to the story? Brought it in earlier and you miss the Brienne stuff.

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4 hours ago, Misnthropia said:

I 100% agree. 

Here is a man who, for 5 seasons has detested Melisandre, hell, hes almost been killed for simply disagreeing with her. Here is a man who has offered his life, has lost sons, has lost fingers and done everything for Stannis Baratheon, his King. For 5 seasons he has been the rock in Stannis' wavering storyline. The one who he could always rely on for honest counsel.

 

Its taken 4 episodes for him to show half a moment of care that Stannis is dead and everything he has fought for gone. 4 episodes and we get a "I executed him" and Davos just gulps and then "Oh well!" back to my lord and saviors Melisandre and Snow?

 

Hes not in character at all and its absolutely laughable that people are defending it.

He's not Olly. He can make friends with his enemies especially if those enemies seem to be mistaken rather than malevolent. Him working with Mel is no different than NW working with Wildlings. 5 seasons ago he thought she was evil and was deliberately leading Stannis down to destruction. Any idiot can see that's not true. He used to be a smuggler. How many people did he work with that weren't very nice? What about that rapist pirate that he called a friend? That's not in character?

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4 hours ago, Xarkar said:

He just saw a dude come back to life in front of him.

Perhaps he realized he was also following the wrong person.

He never believed "Stannis is Azor Ahai" bullshit. He followed Stannis because he believed him to be best king.

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People defending the way the show has handled Davos and Mel post Stannis' destruction are crazy. The way Davos grabbed Mel's arm forcefully this episode was how he should have responded IMMEDIATELY when she returned to CB with no Shireen and Selyse. Before he was sent away by Stannis, he knew something wasn't right because why would Stannis send his right hand man away just before battle???  D&D realized how foolish that was and tried to fix it by having Davos "finally remember" where his loyalties have always lain after Mel has jumped onto her new TPTWP...  He shouldn't have needed a reminder. Timeline or events at CB be damned. He should have demanded an immediate answer and at least they should have had Mel tell a lie to abate his anger and suspicion.  Then when she's trying to push her twisted agenda onto Jon and Brienne adding her two cents, he should start digging deeper into Mel's story. Say what you want, but they could have handled this entire situation much better than they did. Before Davos is Team Jon he was and always will be Team Shireen. Just like Brienne is/was Team Renly before Team Cat/Sansa. She sure said to hell with Sansa to get her revenge for Renly. Davos should have done the same for Shireen by demanding an immediate answer to what happened to her and how in the hell Mel, and Mel alone managed to escape?

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3 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

People defending the way the show has handled Davos and Mel post Stannis' destruction are crazy. The way Davos grabbed Mel's arm forcefully this episode was how he should have responded IMMEDIATELY when she returned to CB with no Shireen and Selyse. Before he was sent away by Stannis, he knew something wasn't right because why would Stannis send his right hand man away just before battle???  D&D realized how foolish that was and tried to fix it by having Davos "finally remember" where his loyalties have always lain after Mel has jumped onto her new TPTWP...  He shouldn't have needed a reminder. Timeline or events at CB be damned. He should have demanded an immediate answer and at least they should have had Mel tell a lie to abate his anger and suspicion.  Then when she's trying to push her twisted agenda onto Jon and Brienne adding her two cents, he should start digging deeper into Mel's story. Say what you want, but they could have handled this entire situation much better than they did. Before Davos is Team Jon he was and always will be Team Shireen. Just like Brienne is/was Team Renly before Team Cat/Sansa. She sure said to hell with Sansa to get her revenge for Renly. Davos should have done the same for Shireen by demanding an immediate answer to what happened to her and how in the hell Mel, and Mel alone managed to escape?

^:agree: I am still upset over how they got rid of poor Shireen :bawl: she didn't deserve that, damnit, we didn't deserve that! :crying:

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16 minutes ago, The Golden Wolf said:

^:agree: I am still upset over how they got rid of poor Shireen :bawl: she didn't deserve that, damnit, we didn't deserve that! :crying:

But condensing and streamlining by doing the same things and with cut content this season as the last but with Jon.

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23 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

So, Jon was stabbed on the same day that Mel rode in to Castle Black?  Is this the way of it?  LOL.  What's the evidence for this other than an assumption that makes it okay that Davos never demanded some answers from her until now?  

Davos asked immediately upon her arrival and she was silent.  He likely figured she was grieving herself as well.  And yes, that night, Jon died.  As soon as the Jon death and resurrection was over, he went right back to questioning Mel.   There's nothing wrong with the way it was laid out at all.  It's all completely understandable and believable.

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4 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

People defending the way the show has handled Davos and Mel post Stannis' destruction are crazy. The way Davos grabbed Mel's arm forcefully this episode was how he should have responded IMMEDIATELY when she returned to CB with no Shireen and Selyse. Before he was sent away by Stannis, he knew something wasn't right because why would Stannis send his right hand man away just before battle???  D&D realized how foolish that was and tried to fix it by having Davos "finally remember" where his loyalties have always lain after Mel has jumped onto her new TPTWP...  He shouldn't have needed a reminder. Timeline or events at CB be damned. He should have demanded an immediate answer and at least they should have had Mel tell a lie to abate his anger and suspicion.  Then when she's trying to push her twisted agenda onto Jon and Brienne adding her two cents, he should start digging deeper into Mel's story. Say what you want, but they could have handled this entire situation much better than they did. Before Davos is Team Jon he was and always will be Team Shireen. Just like Brienne is/was Team Renly before Team Cat/Sansa. She sure said to hell with Sansa to get her revenge for Renly. Davos should have done the same for Shireen by demanding an immediate answer to what happened to her and how in the hell Mel, and Mel alone managed to escape?

He just found out his king died and Shireen died. He looked distraught. There is nothing in his character that has ever demanded he act they way you think he should at that specific moment. 

 

Amd again Davos asked Mel, she pretty much confirmed everyone died, Davos was in shock. Hours later the stuff with Jon happened. Life threatening situation for Davos to be in. The next scene he has once that is resolved. Over anywhere from 1 to 3 days, he asks again. 

 

The he problem isn't with the show. They presented a plausible scenario. You all are reaching and looking for problems.

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On 16.5.2016 at 4:04 PM, lancerman said:

This is dumb. Season opened and he found Jon in the first scene dead. Next he's holed up in the room fighting Allister. Then the wildlings come and he asks Mel to Ressurection Jon. Then Jon returns.

Then in literally the first scene Davos wasn't dealing with Jon's death and had his life in danger he asks Mel about it. 

Come on...

Totally agree. He had a lot on his plate in the first few episodes.  From what I can tell, it's entirely possible that barely a day has passed in real time at Castle Black this season so far. There was about five minutes between Season 4's stabbing and Season 5's opening. Then Davos found his body, they had the standoff, which ended in the evening with the return of the wildlings. Later that evening, Melisandre resurrected Jon, he gets his bearings, executes the traitors first thing in the morning, mopes about not wanting to fight or be a NW anymore, Sansa shows up that afternoon, and boom, we're probably 36 hours max post stabbing.

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34 minutes ago, StarksNTargs said:

Davos asked immediately upon her arrival and she was silent.  He likely figured she was grieving herself as well.  And yes, that night, Jon died.  As soon as the Jon death and resurrection was over, he went right back to questioning Mel.   There's nothing wrong with the way it was laid out at all.  It's all completely understandable and believable.

Agreed.  Things happened fast and Davos acted fast.  He didn't forget, he didn't stop caring...he was acting to save Jon (and himself).  He doesn't have to like someone to realize he needs their help.  That's the beauty of his character- he's a practical man who isn't ruled by emotion.  The emotion is there, but he knows that can wait until a more appropriate time.  He asked Melisandre when she first came to Castle Black and she shut him out and refused to answer him...what's he supposed to do?  He can't force her to answer him.  Then he gets embroiled in the NW's business and needs her help.  He confronts her again after Jon's resurrection, and she does the same thing.  Brienne is the one that answers him.

It's not "nonsensical" to put aside one's differences when there's an emergency.

 

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3 hours ago, sj4iy said:

Agreed.  Things happened fast and Davos acted fast.  He didn't forget, he didn't stop caring...he was acting to save Jon (and himself).  He doesn't have to like someone to realize he needs their help.  That's the beauty of his character- he's a practical man who isn't ruled by emotion.  The emotion is there, but he knows that can wait until a more appropriate time.  He asked Melisandre when she first came to Castle Black and she shut him out and refused to answer him...what's he supposed to do?  He can't force her to answer him.  Then he gets embroiled in the NW's business and needs her help.  He confronts her again after Jon's resurrection, and she does the same thing.  Brienne is the one that answers him.

It's not "nonsensical" to put aside one's differences when there's an emergency.

 

but vengeance must be had for Shireen! that aside damn things have been really busy at Castle Black. I am just glad Ed brought up Hardhome, Jon needs to perk the hell up because he knows that if the Others make it past the wall everything he has done will be for naught and everyone will meet an icy death.

I would have preferred Ed being the one to find Jon's body.

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