Osha a self-sacrifice as part of the GNC?

[Frances Bean Corbray]

Sometimes you don't have any court admissible proof of something, but you Know it anyway.

[Good Guy Garlan]

6 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Sansa instantly knew that Ramsay killed Roose, just wanting to point that out. 

Well, I mean, it's Ramsay. That's probably the most logical assumption. 

[Frances Bean Corbray]

Look we all know Roose kept himself in very good health Sansa knows he didn't have a heart attack.

And it's an open secret that "poisoned by his enemies" is bullshit.  Even Ramsay's allies don't buy it, they just don't care.

[[Deleted]]

5 hours ago, Benedict Oathkeeper said:

Theory ...

SmallJon Umber brings Osha, Rickon and a large wolf head to Winterfell, as part of the wider northern conspiracy/rebellion against the Boltons. It's a risk but with the Boltons having the upper hand it is viewed as a risk worth taking.  SmallJon's plan, agreed (reluctantly by Rickon) and the Manderleys etc. is to bring Osha and Rickon to Ramsey knowing that Ramsey will first butcher Osha before killing or torturing Rickon (that is his nature).  The inevitable butchery of Osha is the moment the plan is executed.  Not sure exactly how this will happen but as Osha is being killed, Rickon is being sprung, probably via Winterfell crypts.  SmallJon has written the pink letter (borrowed this idea from another thread, thanks) and this interweaves with the Osha/Rickon plan in that it has the possibility of achieving success and saving Rickon, too, whilst marching on Winterfell with Ramsey and Rickon inside seems to have very little chance of success and no chance of Rickon surviving.  This explains why any northern family would allow Rickon to be handed over - a small chance of victory at great odds seems quite Stark-like.

Rickon's escape draws Ramsey out of Winterfell, the fact he has lost two captive Starks makes him as mad as an otter and any semblance of strategy and the logical martial correctness of staying in Winterfell (already mentioned by Roose on the show) deserts him. Boom.  

1. Northerners are great

2. Ramsey's goose is cooked 

3. Jon and Sansa retake Winterfell and Rickon is not dog-meat

 ... a brief Winterfell party ensues (not sure how we get Arya or Bran an invite) before the battle for the dawn begins ... 

Come on D&D, you know you want to ...

Thoughts?

Why, exactly, would they have to wait for Osha to be killed before putting the rest of the plan in action?

"Welp, the wildling girl has snuffed it, just like we planned. Let's roll!"

[GeorgeIAF]

They know that Ramsay is ambitious and will want Sansa back at any cost so he won't risk his only chance (Rickon) of getting her back. Yes, Ramsay is unpredictable, but killing Rickon would mean he is stupid as fuck, which he isn't. Also using Rickon to get Sansa back will surely ensure that Jon will enter the battle, which means higher odds for them to get rid of the Boltons. And maybe they counted on Rickon knowing every inch of Winterfell, and that includes secret passages and so on, maybe he will escape and goes into the crypts.

[Ruhail]

What a waste of time. Should have just killed her offscreen with Shaggydog.

[TickTak7]

29 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

What a waste of time. Should have just killed her offscreen with Shaggydog.

Agreed. 

What was the point of bringing her back for like 2 minutes just to kill her off? Do we really need another reminder of just how evil Ramsey is? We get it.

The only thing I can think of is that her body (flayed at some point, maybe?) could have some sort of significance down the line? Maybe convince the Wildings to join the Starks? I don't really know - it felt really unnecessary and made no sense to me. 

[GeorgeIAF]

I really can't get the GNC out of my head, it would really be a big shame if this storyline isn't included in the show, there are hints everywhere though. And, in my opinion, another big hint is this : 

“Fletcher”:  He is a fat nobleman in his 60’s. He has distinctive rugged features, a Northern accent, and a distinguished air. Our source says he has a stirring speech during which he unexpectedly shifts political allegiances.

I believe he will be Wyman delivering his famous speech to either Davos/Jon/Sansa. (they don't mention Houses without a purpose, and we heard Karstark mentioning the Manderlys), where he states his real intentions and how all the Northern Houses were planning to overthrow the Boltons.

[TickTak7]

4 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

I really can't get the GNC out of my head, it would really be a big shame if this storyline isn't included in the show, there are hints everywhere though. And, in my opinion, another big hint is this : 

“Fletcher”:  He is a fat nobleman in his 60’s. He has distinctive rugged features, a Northern accent, and a distinguished air. Our source says he has a stirring speech during which he unexpectedly shifts political allegiances.

I believe he will be Wyman delivering his famous speech to either Davos/Jon/Sansa. (they don't mention Houses without a purpose, and we heard Karstark mentioning the Manderlys).

The show runners have been known to troll book-fans pretty hard, so while I'm equally giddy and suspicious that they dropped the house names, the only reason why I don't think they we are going to get that Manderley moment is because they haven't built up that house in the show, at all. 

I think it's far more likely (but almost sure it won't happen) that the Umbers are playing some sort of long-con with the Boltons - The Smalljon didn't swear fealty, the show-watchers are already somewhat familiar with the Umbers, and the Smalljon is definitely a memorable character with a strong introduction that makes you think he's going to have another moment or two this season). 

I do agree with you though - the GNC seems like too big of a theory to just let go and leave out of the show. I just don't know how logistically they introduce it into the show, satisfying show-only fans. 

[GeorgeIAF]

Yes but Smalljon doesn't fit the description ... and the show proved that they don't name-drop Houses randomly. I think that if the Manderlys were scraped, they wouldnt even been mentioned.

[TickTak7]

7 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Yes but Smalljon doesn't fit the description ... and the show proved that they don't name-drop Houses randomly. I think that if the Manderlys were scraped, they wouldnt even been mentioned.

You think we will get Wyman + The North Remembers speech? 

[GeorgeIAF]

4 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

You think we will get Wyman + The North Remembers speech? 

I hope ... I'm like 60 % on it though if it will really be the Merman delivering it and not someone else. But the speech will make it on the screen, or a version of it.

[WhatIsDeadMayNeverLive]

5 hours ago, northernmonkey said:

No. If there was a conspiracy then they wouldn't have given Rickon to Ramsay knowing that he'd probably kill him.

This. If Umbers were a part of GNC they wouldn't just give the last male Stark to Ramsay, it makes no sense. Fake Rickon might make sense, but there's no evidence to support that and plenty against.

[Swordfish]

Sorry, I've scanned a few of these threads, and I still can't seem to figure out what 'GNC' is?

[Old Blue Eyes]

3 minutes ago, Swordfish said:

Sorry, I've scanned a few of these threads, and I still can't seem to figure out what 'GNC' is?

It's the "Great Northern Conspiracy."  I have to study up on it as well.

[Neffaria]

7 hours ago, dantares83 said:

there is no GNC

D&D can't come out with that kind of greatness

 

 

 

Hate to say it but I agree with you on this. every time I get super excited about a possible plot twist I end up disappointed as it seems that what is presented is what is going on. if they hand over Rickon, they're really handing him over and betraying the Starks. I still haven't decided if this is due to D&d not being as clever of writers as we had hoped, or if it is because they dont have the faith that the bulk of their viewership would get it now that the audience has grown so huge. with the red wedding and Ned's fate those were shocking not because people died but because they forshadowed the possibility that something was amiss but there were enough red herrings to give hope. it wasn't just OMG Neds Dead, even though that was the reaction of the crowds. I miss those days of GoT. This season

Spoiler

it just feels like they're killing people off without laying that groundwork for the hope of survival. all of the deaths this season, (with the exception of the Martells, that was unexpected, unforshadowed, and really just felt like a clean up in aisle three to get rid of Dorne and quickly move along) it was pretty obvious that roose walda and baby bolton's days were numbered, it was just a question of when. so to gain the shock value they killed them off at oddball moments. same thing with Osha. I hope beyond hope that Im wrong, I hope they still have it in them to lay in the ground work for an exceptional twist. but sadly I have to say Im losing faith.

 

 

[Jack Bauer 24]

9 hours ago, MotherofStrife said:

I think it was just that D&D had no further role for her so they killed her off? If you bring back Rickon, Osha is likely to come back or the viewers might wonder where she is. But they had nothing for her to do/hadn't included her in the story and they cannot think anything better to write other than kill her off. And obviously since we are not yet getting it, we should be very subtly reminded that Ramsay is a mean mean man. 

Except Osha showed agency here and tried to survive. It was great writing and characterization. Ramsay is a killer, so that's what he is supposed to do. 

[Tianzi]

There is no GNC.

There is D&D.

[Jack Bauer 24]

3 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

There is no GNC.

There is D&D.

And Emmy record setting.

[Tianzi]

Just now, Jack Bauer 24 said:

And Emmy record setting.

Is that an argument for GNC?