Lost Melnibonean

Second of Three Fires

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In the show, the House of the Undying Ones scene was trippy but nowhere near as packed with prophecy, allusion, hints, and foreshadowing as the corresponding chapter in Clash. 

In Clash, the Undying Ones told Daenerys that she must light three fires, " . . . one for life and one for death and one to love." 

The first was quite obviously Drogo’s pyre, which gave life to the dragons. 

Did we see her light the second fire last night, which caused the death of the assembled Dothraki khals, and which allowed her to assume comand of the assembled Dothraki khalassars? 

ETA

All the khalasars will return to Vaes Dothrak...

Quote

“Only the crones of the dosh khaleen dwell permanently in the sacred city, them and their slaves and servants,” Ser Jorah replied, “yet Vaes Dothrak is large enough to house every man of every khalasar, should all the khals return to the Mother at once. The crones have prophesied that one day that will come to pass, and so Vaes Dothrak must be ready to embrace all its children.”

Daenerys IV, Game 36

Where they will become "one blood, one khalasar, one herd." (Daenerys IV, Game 36)

ETA II

And Daenerys’s babe will be the stallion that mounts the world...

Quote

As the smoke ascended, the chanting died away and the ancient crone closed her single eye, the better to peer into the future. The silence that fell was complete. Dany could hear the distant call of night birds, the hiss and crackle of the torches, the gentle lapping of water from the lake. The Dothraki stared at her with eyes of night, waiting.

Khal Drogo laid his hand on Dany's arm. She could feel the tension in his fingers. Even a khal as mighty as Drogo could know fear when the dosh khaleen peered into smoke of the future. At her back, her handmaids fluttered anxiously.

Finally the crone opened her eye and lifted her arms. "I have seen his face, and heard the thunder of his hooves," she proclaimed in a thin, wavery voice.

"The thunder of his hooves!" the others chorused.

"As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." The old woman trembled and looked at Dany almost as if she were afraid. "The prince is riding, and he shall be the stallion who mounts the world."

"The stallion who mounts the world!" the onlookers cried in echo, until the night rang to the sound of their voices.

Daenerys V, Game 46 (emphasis in the original)

Of course, Rhaego would go on to die in the womb, another wee Targaryen dragonbaby, the child that Daenerys unwittingly sacrificed to Wake the Dragon. But Daenerys is the Mother of Dragons, and she refers to her dragonlets as her children. If Daenerys returns to Vaes Dothrak and unites the Dothraki, it will be with the aid of her child Drogon. And how will Drogon do that? Dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power. 

ETA III

Daenerys will return to Vaes Dothrak, "beneath the shadow of the Mother of the Mountains"...

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"To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

Daenerys III, Clash 40 (emphasis added)

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"Have patience, Princess. Do not make your brother's mistake. We will go home, I promise you."

Home? The word made her feel sad. Ser Jorah had his Bear Island, but what was home to her? A few tales, names recited as solemnly as the words of a prayer, the fading memory of a red door . . . was Vaes Dothrak to be her home forever? When she looked at the crones of the dosh khaleen, was she looking at her future?

...

... But with the khal off hunting, it was pleasant to lie back on soft cushions and be carried across Vaes Dothrak, ...

The day was warm and cloudless, the sky a deep blue. When the wind blew, she could smell the rich scents of grass and earth. As her litter passed beneath the stolen monuments, she went from sunlight to shadow and back again. Dany swayed along, studying the faces of dead heroes and forgotten kings. She wondered if the gods of burned cities could still answer prayers.

If I were not the blood of the dragon, she thought wistfully, this could be my home. She was khaleesi, she had a strong man and a swift horse, handmaids to serve her, warriors to keep her safe, an honored place in the dosh khaleen awaiting her when she grew old . . . and in her womb grew a son who would one day bestride the world. That should be enough for any woman . . . but not for the dragon. With Viserys gone, Daenerys was the last, the very last. She was the seed of kings and conquerors, and so too the child inside her. She must not forget.

Daenerys VI, Game 54 (emphasis added)

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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I dunno but I sure liked that scene. We have no idea if that will happen in the books, but either way I liked it a lot. 

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Yeah, I definitely think the second fire was "fire for death".

The third fire, "fire TO love", in my opinion, is Drogon-skinchanged-by-Jon bathing her in flames in the Battle of the Dawn, after which she is untouched, and that is what makes Jon to gravitate towards her after this moment. From one special kid to another, so to speak. But that is just my guess.

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Or burning some one close to her to A. Please the red God. or B. Get rid of the threat of Grey scale. (TV show of course)

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also:

 

She had sensed the truth of it long ago, Dany thought as she took a step closer to the conflagration, but the brazier had not been hot enough. The flames writhed before her like the women who had danced at her wedding, whirling and singing and spinning their yellow and orange and crimson veils, fearsome to behold, yet lovely, so lovely, alive with heat. Dany opened her arms to them, her skin flushed and glowing. This is a wedding, too, she thought. Mirri Maz Duur had fallen silent. The godswife thought her a child, but children grow, and children learn.

 

Bride of fire?

 

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A theory: Khal Drogo's pyre is love, this one is death and the last one - which will take place during the Battle for the Dawn and save humanity from the Others - is life. There shouldn't be two more in the books though, as GRRM has made it clear that Dany surviving fire was a one-time occurrence and that she won't be able to do it again.

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29 minutes ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

 

also:

 

She had sensed the truth of it long ago, Dany thought as she took a step closer to the conflagration, but the brazier had not been hot enough. The flames writhed before her like the women who had danced at her wedding, whirling and singing and spinning their yellow and orange and crimson veils, fearsome to behold, yet lovely, so lovely, alive with heat. Dany opened her arms to them, her skin flushed and glowing. This is a wedding, too, she thought. Mirri Maz Duur had fallen silent. The godswife thought her a child, but children grow, and children learn.

 

Bride of fire?

 

I think you might be on to something. Let's keep pushing it...

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1 hour ago, PTMA said:

Could the third be the burning of of Kings Landing

o_O

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I think you might be on to something. Let's keep pushing it...

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

 

“The silver queen is gone,” the ketch’s master told him. “She flew away upon her dragon, beyond the Dothraki sea.”

“Where is this Dothraki sea?” he demanded. “I will sail the Iron Fleet across it and find the queen wherever she may be.”

 

“How big will he grow?” Dany asked curiously. “Do you know?”

“In the Seven Kingdoms, there are tales of dragons who grew so huge that they could pluck giant krakens from the seas.

Dany laughed. “That would be a wondrous sight to see.”

 

 

maybe victarion goes to Vaes dothrak and dies along the khals..

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1 hour ago, Wrycthen said:

o_O

How would that be "TO love?"

ETA, I was referring to the burning of KL...

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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32 minutes ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

 

“The silver queen is gone,” the ketch’s master told him. “She flew away upon her dragon, beyond the Dothraki sea.”

“Where is this Dothraki sea?” he demanded. “I will sail the Iron Fleet across it and find the queen wherever she may be.”

 

“How big will he grow?” Dany asked curiously. “Do you know?”

“In the Seven Kingdoms, there are tales of dragons who grew so huge that they could pluck giant krakens from the seas.

Dany laughed. “That would be a wondrous sight to see.”

 

 

maybe victarion goes to Vaes dothrak and dies along the khals..

But how would the fire be lit TO love? 

I do suspect it might have something to do with Jon Snow, and maybe the fire of Lightbringer...

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2 hours ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

 

“The silver queen is gone,” the ketch’s master told him. “She flew away upon her dragon, beyond the Dothraki sea.”

“Where is this Dothraki sea?” he demanded. “I will sail the Iron Fleet across it and find the queen wherever she may be.”

 

“How big will he grow?” Dany asked curiously. “Do you know?”

“In the Seven Kingdoms, there are tales of dragons who grew so huge that they could pluck giant krakens from the seas.

Dany laughed. “That would be a wondrous sight to see.”

 

 

maybe victarion goes to Vaes dothrak and dies along the khals..

I love these quotes. I am not a huge Dany fan, but I don't dislike her either, and yet these lines were always like music to me.

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But how would the fire be lit TO love? 

I do suspect it might have something to do with Jon Snow, and maybe the fire of Lightbringer...

All just maybe's, but here are my two coins to rub together.

As far as the show is concerned, and possibly the books as well, I think Daario will betray Dany because he is actually power hungry and in the books and is curiously encouraging to Dany by telling her to embrace her dragonside. Book Daario is now a prisoner of the Yunkai army and Dany has left everyone in a rather shitty state of events back in Meereen. Daario could make a deal withthe Yunkai to double cross Dany for gold/dragons/fame/? and work his way back in to the pyramids and cause chaos and death there... and Dany will figure this out and raze real Meereen and burn it for her scorned love-thingy.

On the show, it is way less developed and struggles to be there, but it sorta is in a tv way. I feel that Jorah will figure out that Daario is planning to betray Dany, and then Daario kills Jorah before he can rat Daario out but Daario tells Dany it was a "mercy" killing b/c Jorah has the cheese touch, after Dany has her sads over dead Jorah and figures out that Daario is going to betray her, I think then she will unleash Drogon to raze tv Meereen and burn it for her scorned love-thingy? I am sure there are still a few questions to fill in gaps, but this is how I see the tv version working.

From Dance:

"If she had been some ordinary woman, she would gladly have spent her whole life touching Daario, tracing his scars and making him tell her how he'd come by every one. I would give up my crown if he asked it of me, Dany thought … but he had not asked it, and never would. Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved. If I gave up my crown, he would not want me. Besides, kings who lost their crowns oft lost their heads as well, and she could see no reason why it would be any different for a queen."

"If I could, I would. Khal Drogo had been her sun-and-stars, but he had been dead so long that Daenerys had almost forgotten how it felt to love and be loved. Daario had helped her to remember. I was dead and he brought me back to life. I was asleep and he woke me. My brave captain. Even so, of late he grew too bold. On the day that he returned from his latest sortie, he had tossed the head of a Yunkish lord at her feet and kissed her in the hall for all the world to see, until Barristan Selmy pulled the two of them apart. Ser Grandfather had been so wroth that Dany feared blood might be shed. "We cannot wed, my love. You know why."

Even Barristan sees it, and he is a massive Targophile:

"And Daenerys Targaryen, whatever else she might be, was still a young girl, as she herself would claim when it pleased her to play the innocent. Like all good queens she put her people first—else she would never have wed Hizdahr zo Loraq—but the girl in her still yearned for poetry, passion, and laughter. She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud.
You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time."
I just want to add that whoever Dany ends up with after Daario while she is in Meereen or her first few months (or whatever) in Westeros will not be her final companion... if she does have a final companion.
 
Edited by The Fattest Leech

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As to the third fire, there is a pattern that might give us a clue. This is what she hears when she finally comes upon the Undying Ones...

Quote

. . . mother of dragons . . . came a voice, part whisper and part moan . . . dragons . . . dragons . . . dragons . . . other voices echoed in the gloom.

That's three echos of the word "dragons."

Quote

 

Dany listened to the silence. None of them are breathing, and they do not move, and those eyes see nothing. Could it be that the Undying Ones were dead?

Her answer was a whisper as thin as a mouse's whisker. . . . we live . . . live . . . live . . . it sounded. Myriad other voices whispered echoes . . . . And know . . . know . . . know . . . know . . .

 

That's three lives, one know, and three echoes of the know.

Quote

 

"I have come for the gift of truth," Dany said. "In the long hall, the things I saw . . . were they true visions, or lies? Past things, or things to come? What did they mean?"

. . . the shape of shadows . . . morrows not yet made . . . drink from the cup of ice . . . drink from the cup of fire . . .

. . . mother of dragons . . . child of three . . .

 

Note that Daenerys was the mother of three dragons. And she is almost surely one of the three heads of Rhaegar's dragon. 

Quote

 

"Three?" She did not understand.

. . . three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air. . . . mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . .

 

She was the child of storm--Daenerys Stormborn, and she became the mother of dragons. 

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The whispers became a swirling song. . . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . .

So, three fires, three mounts, and three treasons, the last of each for love. That's nine fires, mounts, and treasons.

Quote

 

"I don't . . ." Her voice was no more than a whisper, almost as faint as theirs. What was happening to her? "I don't understand," she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? "Help me. Show me."

. . . help her . . . the whispers mocked. . . . show her . . .

Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a womans name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand ofa blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

 

So, after Daenerys asks for help to understand these nine fires, mounts, and treasons, she sees nine more visions grouped into three sets of three. It seems likely that the nine fires, mounts, and treasons relate to the nine visions that follow her plea for help in understanding. 

Recall that the last of each of the three mounts, fires, and lies she will l know appears to invlove love. And note that the last little visions in the first and the last of the daughter of death, slayer of lies, bride of fire sequence appear to allude to Jon Snow.

Recall when Daenerys walked into the pyre, between the hatching of the second and third eggs, as she heard Jorah calling to her...

Quote

No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, dont you see? Dont you SEE? With a belch of flame and smoke that reached thirty feet into the sky, the pyre collapsed and came down around her. Unafraid, Dany stepped forward into the firestorm, calling to her children.

Daenerys X, Game

The only thing missing from the pyre scene is slayer of lies. But that seems understandable, no? We generally understand slayer of lies to mean eater of red herring, dont we? Ironically, Daenerys herself is the biggest red herring in the tale, since the prince who was promised is Jon Snow, son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. 

It seems to me, the third fire will involve Jon Snow. Perhaps she will light his . . . um . . . sword . . . on fire? 

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40 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

~snipped good stuff for length~

The only thing missing from the pyre scene is slayer of lies. But that seems understandable, no? We generally understand slayer of lies to mean eater of red herring, dont we? Ironically, Daenerys herself is the biggest red herring in the tale, since the prince who was promised is Jon Snow, son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. 

It seems to me, the third fire will involve Jon Snow. Perhaps she will light his . . . um . . . sword . . . on fire? 

I always took it that she had to do these three sets of things before she can leave Essos, like an internal switch signifying that she is ready to leave Essos, that she has completed her dragon puberty and is ready to fly, that she is ready to grab Westeros by the haunches and hump it into submission, that her fire and blood is ready to rule.

As an example: she may burn everything after Daario, her recent love, and sail away with Euron (who is humping her leg hard if he is not burned already) but she will not stay with Euron for romance or duty, but will find a "final" love in Westeros... if she decides she wants another love at all. (please not jon snow, please not jon snow, please not jon snow)

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5 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I always took it that she had to do these three sets of things before she can leave Essos, like an internal switch signifying that she is ready to leave Essos, that she has completed her dragon puberty and is ready to fly, that she is ready to grab Westeros by the haunches and hump it into submission, that her fire and blood is ready to rule.

As an example: she may burn everything after Daario, her recent love, and sail away with Euron (who is humping her leg hard if he is not burned already) but she will not stay with Euron for romance or duty, but will find a "final" love in Westeros... if she decides she wants another love at all. (please not jon snow, please not jon snow, please not jon snow)

Ah, but Jon's flower is filling the world with such sweetness. . . 

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3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Ah, but Jon's flower is filling the world with such sweetness. . . 

But, but, but Dany doesn't seem to like sweet stuff, if I recall? I may not because it's late and I barely slept last night.

Give me a minute to look some stuff up....

And at this moment in time, Jon is a damned flowerbed with all of his freshly cut blooming chest flowers. (please not jon)

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12 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Ah, but Jon's flower is filling the world with such sweetness. . . 

Ok, I can't get too far into it now, but my cursory check using the keyword "sweet" actually, probably points more to Daario being a betrayer. And I am now calling Missendai into question on it as well.

In Dance, Xaro arrives in Meereen and offers Dany some ships (we all remember this) and he refers to her as "sweet queen" several, several times, as he did back in Qarth. Well, Xaro has now betrayed Dany twice-ish and always refers to Dany as the "sweet queen", even when he is being curt.

Now after Xaro leaves Meereen, Daario starts using the same phrase "sweet queen" when he talks to Dany. And he asks Dany if she thinks he would ever steal from her, and she never really answers but instead talks of love:

"Oh, a clever frog. 'Give the gift to me.' " She threw the other pillow at him. "Would I have ever seen it?"
Daario stroked his gilded mustachio. "Would I steal from my sweet queen? If it were a gift worthy of you, I would have put it into your soft hands myself."
"As a token of your love?"
 
Also after this we get the sweet and hot poisoned locusts, we get Hizzy who refers to Dany as his "sweet queen", and after all of this we get some of Dany's last thoughts of Jorah:
"My bear, she thought, my old sweet bear, who loved me and betrayed me. She had missed him so."
 
Ok, clearly I rushed this info and there is more... but this should be a good start. Daario will be Dany's betrayal for love which is her final threshold before she can return to Westeros.

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@Lost Melnibonean

 

i went down this way a couple of times.

HotU is so freakin frustrating and at the same time awesome chapter.

I too believe the treasons, mounts and fires are related to the nine visions, of daughter, slayer bride.. but i can´t figure it out.

Nothing indicates that these visions should be taken in order though, i mean, the mounts fires and treasons could be mixed in the brides, daughters and slayer...

 

Daughter of death:

Viserys: treason for a gold (crown)?

Rhaego: could be the treason for blood (MMD), or the fire for life (if indeed she sacrificed him for dragons as many speculate)

Rhaegar: treason for love? like Robert betrayed her family for the love of lyanna..

 

Slayer of lies

Stannis: fire for death?

(f)Aegon: treason for love? Illyrio being aegons father..  treason for blood for the same reasons?

Stone Beast: beats me.

 

Bride of fire

Silver: Mount to love.. or Fire for life, representing Drogos sacrifice and pyre.

Corpse: Victarion fire for death? (like i speculated before).. Jon Connigton also Fire for death seing as we will have a new DOD..

Jon: beats me.

 

Edited by LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse

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5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Ok, I can't get too far into it now, but my cursory check using the keyword "sweet" actually, probably points more to Daario being a betrayer. And I am now calling Missendai into question on it as well.

Bingo.

You're all (perfectly reasonably - it's GRRM's trap) assuming the lover refers to Dany loving someone, or someone loving Dany. Suppose the love refers to Missendai loving Grey Worm, or GW loving Missendai? Their love for each other causes one of them (I think Missy) to betray Dany.

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