Narratively speaking, we are still in book 4/5

[Zara Zokan]

3 minutes ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

Are you really not understanding this?

What is there to understand?

[watcher of the night]

4 minutes ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

Are you really not understanding this?

Don't responde to this. It is a bot. It has these one liners, most of them variations of this question.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Just now, Zara Zokan said:

What is there to understand?

You've lost the plot. Pretty remarkable I must say.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Just now, watcher of the night said:

Don't responde to this. It is a bot. It has these one liners, most of them variations of this question.

I'm genuinely shocked that some people really don't understand the obvious.

[Zara Zokan]

1 minute ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

You've lost the plot. Pretty remarkable I must say.

Maybe D&D should've written a plot that made sense, then.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Just now, Zara Zokan said:

Maybe D&D should've written a plot that made sense, then.

Maybe Martin shouldn't have sold his unfinished work and actually released another book then. Now THAT makes sense.

[Zara Zokan]

1 minute ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

Maybe Martin shouldn't have sold his unfinished work and actually released another book then. Now THAT makes sense.

I was mostly criticising D&D's job at adapting the ADWD stuff, but that still doesn't excuse D&D writing a horrible, horrible excuse for a story and them being terrible writers themselves.

And yeah, you can blame Martin for some of it, but that doesn't mean you can't criticise the illogical stuff for being illogical.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Just now, Zara Zokan said:

I was mostly criticising D&D's job at adapting the ADWD stuff, but that still doesn't excuse D&D writing a horrible, horrible excuse for a story and them being terrible writers themselves.

And yeah, you can blame Martin for some of it, but that doesn't mean you can't criticise the illogical stuff for being illogical.

ADwD is by far the worst book. All the fat they had to cut is a testament to the job Beinoff and Weiss have done. It took a herculean effort to adapt that mess.

[Dragon in the North]

11 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said:

The Bolton claim on the North comes from the Lannisters. Betraying Robb, and then betraying the family who validated their betrayal isn't exactly the smartest move in the world. Why couldn't, say, they have worked with the Lannisters to marry a fArya instead of marrying the wanted criminal. Hell, it's not like the Northern Lords would have even noticed, since they weren't even at the wedding (the person of highest status was Ramsay's beloved Myranda).

I mean that what do the Umbers, for example, hope to gain by outright stating that they don't trust the Boltons, and then handing Rickon to the Boltons free of charge (e.g. they could have sent Shaggydog's head ahead, giving them leverage to gain influence and power). The only way people's plans in the show succeed is if everyone else forgets to apply logic to anything).

I disagree with your interpretation of where book!Sansa's headed, but I won't say it's not entirely valid. I just don't think she's so stupid that she, a rather politically apt woman, would ever think that legitimising someone's claim is getting revenge.

No, the Lannisters gave the Boltons an empty title and land that they had no way of holding. Marrying Sansa to Ramsay is what gave them legitimacy. The Lannisters don't really care about the Boltons, and have left them to deal with their own problems. To them, the North has been significantly weakened and was no longer a threat. As to why the Northern lords weren't at the wedding, I'm betting Roose didn't invite them, and wanted to keep them as far away until absolutley necessary. Like Stannis said, "Whoever said keep your enemies close clearly didn't have many enemies.

Umber didn't hand over Rickon for nothing. He handed him over in exchange for the Boltons support against the wildlings.

[Vastet]

I find it amusing when people with no accolades in writing claim D&D are horrible writers. They are most definitely not horrible writers, as the shows success objectively proves. You can say you don't like their writing, and that's perfectly valid. But when you say they suck you lose all credibility.

[Zara Zokan]

1 minute ago, Dragon in the North said:

No, the Lannisters gave the Boltons an empty title and land that they had no way of holding. Marrying Sansa to Ramsay is what gave them legitimacy. The Lannisters don't really care about the Boltons, and have left them to deal with their own problems. To them, the North has been significantly weakened and was no longer a threat. As to why the Northern lords weren't at the wedding, I'm betting Roose didn't invite them, and wanted to keep them as far away until absolutley necessary. Like Stannis said, "Whoever said keep your enemies close clearly didn't have many enemies.

Umber didn't hand over Rickon for nothing. He handed him over in exchange for the Boltons support against the wildlings.

Okay, but they're still anxious about the Lannisters invading, and didn't you say that the Boltons don't know that the Lannisters and Tyrells had bigger problems? ("bigger problems" just being freeing Marg and Loras from the HS and Cersei's trial and maybe dealing with the Bland Snakes if the Dornish Lords aren't already moving against them for assassinating the prince and his family). And he didn't invite the Lords for a wedding that legitimised the Bolton claim, or invite them to join his attack on Stannis because... reasons? Okay.

But he still could've gained more leverage if he didn't bring Rickon to Winterfell. What was to stop the kinslayer from a traitorous family to reject his offer and still take Rickon? 

18 minutes ago, watcher of the night said:

Don't responde to this. It is a bot. It has these one liners, most of them variations of this question.

Thank you.

I'm sorry for going off topic. My point about it apparently still being AFFC/ADWD is: no. The plot points at the end such as Dany's flight, the Battle of Ice, Tyrion getting to Meereen, Jon being stabbed, Cersei's walk, Theon and Jeyne  Sansa escaping, etc. have already happened, except the Kingsmoot because D&D forgot about the Ironborn and maybe Arya because that's all jumbled up (was the Trant scene supposed to be Mercy? idk). They're just backtracking and adding elements such as the Northern Lords, the Pink Letter, and Astapor and Yunkai because they want to build up to "cool" events such as the north supporting the Starks, Snowbowl and the Battle of Fire.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

3 hours ago, Zara Zokan said:

 they want to build up to "cool" events such as the north supporting the Starks, Snowbowl and the Battle of Fire.

Or you know.. maybe they decided early on that was how they wanted to order things in the show.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

3 hours ago, Vastet said:

I find it amusing when people with no accolades in writing claim D&D are horrible writers. They are most definitely not horrible writers, as the shows success objectively proves. You can say you don't like their writing, and that's perfectly valid. But when you say they suck you lose all credibility.

The show's popularity proves nothing, Transformers was financially successful and 50 shades of gray was a best seller.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

8 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

The show's popularity proves nothing, Transformers was financially successful and 50 shades of gray was a best seller.

Except GoT continuously gets good ratings amongst those who watch it, and something like 50 shades gets crap ratings. I know its hard to except but most people really like the show. 

[Ruhail]

Its not really surprising coming from a lackluster writer like Benioff.

[RoamingRonin]

11 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

The show's popularity proves nothing, Transformers was financially successful and 50 shades of gray was a best seller.

This works both ways. AFFC and ADWD were also best sellers and those books were awful.

3 hours ago, Vastet said:

I find it amusing when people with no accolades in writing claim D&D are horrible writers. They are most definitely not horrible writers, as the shows success objectively proves. You can say you don't like their writing, and that's perfectly valid. But when you say they suck you lose all credibility.

Or when people claim D&D are horrible writers and then propose a horrible idea like... HBO should stop producing episodes for a year so GRRM can finish TWOW. Or D&D should adapt AFFC as one full season meaning no Dany, Jon or Tyrion.

The show that some people want would be cancelled after 2 episodes.

 

[Vastet]

"The show's popularity proves nothing, Transformers was financially successful and 50 shades of gray was a best seller."

Popularity isn't a valid argument in science or mathematics, but it is the only measure that matters in entertainment. I might (scratch that I do) agree that the Transformers movies and 50 Shades is crap, but that's a personal view based on my taste. They are still high quality to enough people to make them complete successes, which automatically means they aren't crap objectively.

[Zara Zokan]

1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Or you know.. maybe they decided early on that was how they wanted to order things in the show.

Yeah, because Jon getting stabbed because of Olly and Thorne's xenophobia and then adding the Pink Letter after he gets resurrected makes total sense. As well as the Northern Lords not existing in the politically contentious time of a Bolton-Stark wedding and fighting against Stannis, but then all of the bannermen need to be summoned after the enemy is defeated, when they should logically be returning to their holdings. And Dany's impossible situation in Meereen being reduced to opening the Pits to free men and marrying Hizdahr off-screen, while Tyrion takes her plot line after she flies off on Drogon. 

Nope. I don't think the D's planned ahead for season 6 when they were writing season 5.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

6 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said:

Yeah, because Jon getting stabbed because of Olly and Thorne's xenophobia and then adding the Pink Letter after he gets resurrected makes total sense. As well as the Northern Lords not existing in the politically contentious time of a Bolton-Stark wedding and fighting against Stannis, but then all of the bannermen need to be summoned after the enemy is defeated, when they should logically be returning to their holdings. And Dany's impossible situation in Meereen being reduced to opening the Pits to free men and marrying Hizdahr off-screen, while Tyrion takes her plot line after she flies off on Drogon. 

Nope. I don't think the D's planned ahead for season 6 when they were writing season 5.

- Jons story in the show actually makes sense. Its not the same as in the book but it still works just fine. 

- There wasn't any information about what the northern lords were doing last season, only some of it is coming to light now. So again, no problem there.

- Dany's story was simplified , which is a totally reasonable thing to do. Again it all makes sense.

So I'm not sure what your point even is.

[tormund's beard]

On 16/5/2016 at 7:34 PM, Lord Lannister said:

Dang, I need to reread Feast and Dance. I completely missed Jon Snow's resurrection, Tyrion ruling Mereen, the Battle of Ice, Dany burning the khals and a lotta other stuff.

you didn't read the first post either it seems.