Only 2,000 available to fight?

[sj4iy]

2 hours ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

It would not be outrageous if all the Free-folk gladly took up arms for Jon - he got them past the wall, literally died for them, and should they succeed in retaking Winterfell/the North, they know they would surely be rewarded with a new life and acceptance from Stark loyalists.

Tormund already said that they saw Jon as a god.  And there's the fact that if Jon doesn't win this fight, Ramsay has threatened to massacre every Wildling south of the Wall.

The Wildlings, just like Jon, don't really have a choice- they have to fight, or they will die.

[Xcorpyo001]

Jon can probably get some other small houses to help, but Sansa's numbers might be wrong. She said that the lords will suport Jon, but we know that Karstark and Umber are joining, Ramsay, so he might have double that initial number or even more. 

And if Ramsay can 'convince' the Manderly's as well, the final numbers could look like 15k-20k vs 4k-5k. Not counting the Vale and whatever allies they might bring with them in those numbers, they might join the fight later. That 'join the fray' line still bugs me. And the Frey might have reasons to teach Ramsay a lesson. 

[GraveWorries]

7 hours ago, dbunting said:

Tormund specifically said 2,000 so that is the number. Remember a lot died and many many more fled when Stannis and his mounted knights broke their camp. Most of them never showed back up. Thousands and thousands more died at Hardhome.

100,000 free folk in Mance's army.  Hardly any elderly for the obvious reasons and perhaps 1 in 5 being children.  All the women can shot a bow and use knives.  Maybe D&D can explain why they'd march all the way to The Wall fleeing from The Others before marching 300 miles in the wrong direction right back into the teeth of the threat?   

   There is a massive army of Wildlings available to retake Winterfell if they want to.  Just another massive continuity lapse by the worst directors/producers/writers of any TV show in history.

[Ashlesha]

It is hard to show large numbers on a TV show. That is why Bolton has only 5k, that is why Stannis' half army ran away and that is why there are only 2K wildlings.

I think the the difference between wildling and Bolton numbers is what is going to make Jon look for friends. He will send Davos to Bear Island, Brienne to Tullies. Brienne and Jaime are going to meet again during the siege of River-lands and meet Septa Maribald in the process.

Bear Island might play the role of Manderlies in the show.

[House Toad]

On the fist of the first men, didn't 300 crows want to Gideon's men, Sparta, 100,000 wild Wildlings, saying we will cut their undisciplined ranks to pieces, before deciding it might be better to spy on them? Somehow 2000 Wildlings plus a giant is really scary? Queue the Vale if they could even get past Moat Cailin?

[Illiterati]

13 hours ago, Prince of the North said:

We already know Littlefinger is getting the Vale forces together to go north and rescue Sansa from the preview and...(again, "possible" spoilers)

 

  Hide contents

  ...also, there is a leak from a source that has been correct with other things that says Jon and the wildlings will be getting their asses kicked by Ramsay's forces when the Vale forces arrive to save them.  Thus, for this to work somewhat logically the wildling forces had to remain smaller than the Bolton forces, etc.

 

But Sansa meets LF next week.......

[WingedShadow]

9 hours ago, GraveWorries said:

100,000 free folk in Mance's army.  Hardly any elderly for the obvious reasons and perhaps 1 in 5 being children.  All the women can shot a bow and use knives.  Maybe D&D can explain why they'd march all the way to The Wall fleeing from The Others before marching 300 miles in the wrong direction right back into the teeth of the threat?   

   There is a massive army of Wildlings available to retake Winterfell if they want to.  Just another massive continuity lapse by the worst directors/producers/writers of any TV show in history.

Most of the Wildlings at Hardhome had fled from Stannis's attack. That's the only reason they were there. There is no continuity lapse. Did you forget the Massacre at Hardhome?

[Aerys Blackfyre]

remember that not all the wildling warriors are loyal to Tormund or are under his direct command

[robasp2]

They want Jons side to be outnumbered until Vale knights arrive.

Since Ramsey already told 5000, they had to say this.

[White Harbors Wrath]

I don't get whats so complex about this. No ones fighting for Jon or Tormund. Ramsay is threatening to crush and skin every man woman and wildling babe, that's enough to fight over...self preservation.

Maybe they have 8000 wildlings or 10000...he was saying how many he had that could fight.

[mbuehner]

7 hours ago, House Toad said:

 Queue the Vale if they could even get past Moat Cailin?

I'd imagine the Valemen would come by ship and sale up the White Knife.

[Prince of the North]

7 hours ago, Illiterati said:

But Sansa meets LF next week.......

I don't understand what you're saying here?  Do you mean that the Vale forces can't be assembled in such a short time?  If so, I agree.  Maybe Littlefinger goes ahead and meets with Sansa somehow (never mind how he would know where to find her, etc.)?  

2 hours ago, robasp2 said:

They want Jons side to be outnumbered until Vale knights arrive.

Since Ramsey already told 5000, they had to say this.

Exactly!  The Vale army most likely wouldn't need to save the wildling army if it were, say, 10,000 strong

[House Toad]

1 hour ago, mbuehner said:

I'd imagine the Valemen would come by ship and sale up the White Knife.

If he could find his Fingers, because Sansa went to the Boltons? Maybe the Reeds have something else to say?

[TickTak7]

18 hours ago, GraveWorries said:

100,000 free folk in Mance's army.  Hardly any elderly for the obvious reasons and perhaps 1 in 5 being children.  All the women can shot a bow and use knives.  Maybe D&D can explain why they'd march all the way to The Wall fleeing from The Others before marching 300 miles in the wrong direction right back into the teeth of the threat?   

   There is a massive army of Wildlings available to retake Winterfell if they want to.  Just another massive continuity lapse by the worst directors/producers/writers of any TV show in history.

How many of those thousands with Mance were either killed during Stannis' assault, and then subsequently at Hardhome? 

I don't think this is nearly as "massive" a continuity error as you are making it out to be. 

And ultimately, it doesn't really matter. As I've said before there could be numerous reasons as to why they are sticking to their numerical army sizes on the show - least of all CGI budgets and casting costs. 

[fightwookies]

It seems clear that Jon is going to have to rally some friendly forces in the north to take on the expected Bolton army at winterfell. Brienne/Pod sent to riverlands, Sansa sent towards the vale. In the show, I don't remember Jon telling Stannis to find supporters with the Crannogmen, so I would guess that Jon will go talk to them himself. Jon starts sob story about how they were loyal to his father, Howland Reed reveals R+L=J and then it flashes to Bran finishing TOJ scene.

[Forlong the Fat]

21 hours ago, GraveWorries said:

100,000 free folk in Mance's army.  Hardly any elderly for the obvious reasons and perhaps 1 in 5 being children.  All the women can shot a bow and use knives.  Maybe D&D can explain why they'd march all the way to The Wall fleeing from The Others before marching 300 miles in the wrong direction right back into the teeth of the threat?   

   There is a massive army of Wildlings available to retake Winterfell if they want to.  Just another massive continuity lapse by the worst directors/producers/writers of any TV show in history.

This is just silly.  Mance's army was massacred, scattered, then massacred again.  And there were lots of non-fighters to begin with ("hardly any" elderly and 1 in 5 being children--where does that come from?) Furthermore, according to ADWD, Tormund came through the wall with 4,000 people:  "The day had come. It was the hour of the wolf. Soon enough the sun would rise, and four thousand wildlings would come pouring through the Wall."  [Edit: Bowen Marsh actually provides an exact count: "Three thousand one hundred and nineteen wildlings passed through the gate today"] It's actually impressive that half of those people could be mustered to fight.

As far as I can tell, the only "massive continuity gap" is yours.

[TickTak7]

8 hours ago, Aerys Blackfyre said:

remember that not all the wildling warriors are loyal to Tormund or are under his direct command

In the context of the show, I think we are meant to assume they are all loyal to Tormund and each other. 

There's no reason for them to mutiny against each other or Tormund - he negotiated their safe passage across the wall and saved them at Hard home. 

[Frey Pie]

Anyone thinking the ironborn might show up? Theons going to help Asha take the throne, which likely means she wins. Could Theon sway some men into joining hin in helping Jon and Sansa? He kinda owes them...be an excellent way of redemption 

[Frey Pie]

I also detest the thought of Jon and Sansa needing LFs help in retaking the north....especially if it means slaughtering the northern lords. Jon and Sansa should both want to kill LF

[TickTak7]

30 minutes ago, Frey Pie said:

I also detest the thought of Jon and Sansa needing LFs help in retaking the north....especially if it means slaughtering the northern lords. Jon and Sansa should both want to kill LF

They need him. Or, more specifically, his troops. 

Use him, take his troops, secure Winterfell, then kill him.