Watch, Watched, Watching: The Final Cut

[dbunting]

Started Season 2 of Dare Devil this weekend. Looking pretty good so far, about 3 episodes in.

Also watched The Big Short, about the housing crash of 2007. Damn scary what happened and how easily it happened, how many people turned a blind eye. I remember a friend of ours getting a house in like 2006. She made like 30-40k per year and wasn't married, had very little to use as a down payment and they gave her a loan for like 130,000 for a house. My wife and I were talking about it back then about how it made no sense and wondered how a bank would loan someone that much with no way to get it back. She lost the house within 2 years.

[Wall Flower]

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I have started watching The Sopranos last week. I finished the second season yesterday and I have to say, it's not really what I was expecting. It's definitely not very good bingematerial imo, but even as a series tout court it's not really working for me in the way that I imagined beforehand. It's interesting enough, so I'll probably perservere and finish it all, but I'm not really looking forward to going on another four seasons. 

I also can't really see myself rewatching those first two seasons any time soon. There is just this air of self-pity and pessimism surrounding the whole project that makes The Sopranos kind of offputting. I know, that's probably part of the whole intent of David Chase (making us as depressed as Tony Soprano), but I feel like he's a bit one-sided with it. On paper, I get a nuanced view of moblife out of it (neither as glamourized as the Godfather nor as violently monstrous as Joe Pesci in Goodfellas, although it's definitely much, much closer to the latter), but when I watch it it feels like it's all misery. Somehow, it all feels a bit phony. 

It's hard to actually put my finger on what is irking me. I think the best way to express my point is to make a not very favourable comparison to The Wire, which is superior in pretty much every way imo. With The Wire, I realized that the lifestyle(s) depicted in the series were absolutely shit, but The Wire also managed to find something along the lines of beauty and understanding in the wretched lifes of some of its subjects. I felt that The Wire did a much better job at showing the resilience of the human spirit, if that makes sense. 

I'm also not a big fan of the way this show was shot. It feels very stale and static. A lot more like old-fashioned TV. That makes it feel dated imo, which exacerbates the problem I tried to lay-out above. I'm curious whether or not I'll like it more going forward. 

 

Interesting post. I liked the Sopranos more than you but I also found the Wire superior. For me, the Sopranos was a bit claustrophobic being set in a world where everybody was criminal or enabler  I'm not violent but I frequently had the urge to slap one or more of the characters out of their self delusions and I rather wished they had had more of an outside perspective (like someone at the FBI perhaps).

The Wire definitely had more of an epic scope and I really agree that it was better at showing the resilience of human beings in the face of a bleak and seemingly hopeless environment. The characters were flawed but some of them showed humanity, defiance and even a kind of heroism.  

[DireWolfSpirit]

The Sopranos was pretty masterful at using dark humor, while the Wire was a masterful inside view of the gritty, seedy side of urban crime ( drugs, port crime, organized graft), both were exceptionally well executed shows with top tier writing, acting and direction.

Both uniquely original, hard to think of anything else that really captured what either portrayed so fantastically well. I really miss that 2nd season of the Wire (the one at the port?) , just episode after episode of intrigueing storyline.

[dbunting]

8 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

The Sopranos was pretty masterful at using dark humor, while the Wire was a masterful inside view of the gritty, seedy side of urban crime ( drugs, port crime, organized graft), both were exceptionally well executed shows with top tier writing, acting and direction.

Both uniquely original, hard to think of anything else that really captured what either portrayed so fantastically well. I really miss that 2nd season of the Wire (the one at the port?) , just episode after episode of intrigueing storyline.

Yeah, I have a friend who was looking for a new show to watch and she started Sons of Anarchy, not liking it too much. I am trying to get her to stop watching that and start on The Wire. Worlds of difference.

[Cas Stark]

4 hours ago, Veltigar said:

I have started watching The Sopranos last week. I finished the second season yesterday and I have to say, it's not really what I was expecting. It's definitely not very good bingematerial imo, but even as a series tout court it's not really working for me in the way that I imagined beforehand. It's interesting enough, so I'll probably perservere and finish it all, but I'm not really looking forward to going on another four seasons. 

I also can't really see myself rewatching those first two seasons any time soon. There is just this air of self-pity and pessimism surrounding the whole project that makes The Sopranos kind of offputting. I know, that's probably part of the whole intent of David Chase (making us as depressed as Tony Soprano), but I feel like he's a bit one-sided with it. On paper, I get a nuanced view of moblife out of it (neither as glamourized as the Godfather nor as violently monstrous as Joe Pesci in Goodfellas, although it's definitely much, much closer to the latter), but when I watch it it feels like it's all misery. Somehow, it all feels a bit phony. 

It's hard to actually put my finger on what is irking me. I think the best way to express my point is to make a not very favourable comparison to The Wire, which is superior in pretty much every way imo. With The Wire, I realized that the lifestyle(s) depicted in the series were absolutely shit, but The Wire also managed to find something along the lines of beauty and understanding in the wretched lifes of some of its subjects. I felt that The Wire did a much better job at showing the resilience of the human spirit, if that makes sense. 

I'm also not a big fan of the way this show was shot. It feels very stale and static. A lot more like old-fashioned TV. That makes it feel dated imo, which exacerbates the problem I tried to lay-out above. I'm curious whether or not I'll like it more going forward. 

 

I'm surprised you're not liking The Sopranos.  I rewatched the first season a short while ago to see how it stood up and I still thought it was brilliant.  I saw beauty and understanding also.  I'd venture a guess though if you don't like it so far you won't like the rest of it either.

[MisterOJ]

Anybody watching Feed The Beast on AMC? 

I binged the first 4 or 5 episodes over the weekend and I enjoyed it. It's not super high quality television or anything, but a couple of the characters are interesting enough to keep me watching.

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I told you it was good. And I agree, the background and context it offers about race relations in L.A. was very informative. 

 

@Veltigar

Look:

Get on it!!!

It's visually so over the top that it's entirely entertaining.  It's quite imaginative too, but perhaps out of desperation rather than having any idea of what anybody involved was doing or thought they were doing? It's hilarious to see the god Horus become Iron Man, except Horus, being an Egyptian god, he's gold, of course. The Egyptian gods don't have blood, which is what distinguishes them from humans. They have gold in their veins instead.

It was a film that almost went straight to video; the reviewers found it risible, which is understandable, but maybe they missed something?

It takes a while to understand what this action adventure flick is: it is (almost) a parody of the action adventure superhero comix flix, employing our true first superheroes, the gods and goddesses of Egypt.  The story line follows fairly thoroughly, though updated, referencing Iron Man, the Egyptian Book of the Dead journey – i.e. the hero’s journey – and Egyptian founding gods’ mythology.  Even chariots pulled by scarabs!  The greatest achievement of all is Ra and his Solar Barge.  In fact, the Solar Barge and Ra are astounding visually.

I thoroughly enjoyed this silly thing. Though I’d never have spent the 18 bux at a cinema to see it, it was just fine to pass the time streaming from netflix.

One does wonder what the cast thought . . . a couple interesting figures in it -- Coster-Waldau and Rufus Sewell.  One can see that if the studio seriously expected this thing could become a franchise they had to be disappointed.  But how could they have thought any such thing?  Making it a parady of superhero comix must have been something pulled together in the editing studio in hopes of at least not embarrassing the project too badly.

[Zorral]

Just now, Zorral said:

It's visually so over the top that it's entirely entertaining.  It's quite imaginative too, but perhaps out of desperation rather than having any idea of what anybody involved was doing or thought they were doing? It's hilarious to see the god Horus become Iron Man, except Horus, being an Egyptian god, he's gold, of course. The Egyptian gods don't have blood, which is what distinguishes them from humans. They have gold in their veins instead.

It was a film that almost went straight to video; the reviewers found it risible, which is understandable, but maybe they missed something?

It takes a while to understand what this action adventure flick is: it is (almost) a parody of the action adventure superhero comix flix, employing our true first superheroes, the gods and goddesses of Egypt.  The story line follows fairly thoroughly, though updated, referencing Iron Man, the Egyptian Book of the Dead journey – i.e. the hero’s journey – and Egyptian founding gods’ mythology.  Even chariots pulled by scarabs!  The greatest achievement of all is Ra and his Solar Barge.  In fact, the Solar Barge and Ra are astounding visually.

I thoroughly enjoyed this silly thing. Though I’d never have spent the 18 bux at a cinema to see it, it was just fine to pass the time streaming from netflix.

One does wonder what the cast thought . . . a couple interesting figures in it -- Coster-Waldau and Rufus Sewell.  One can see that if the studio seriously expected this thing could become a franchise they had to be disappointed.  But how could they have thought any such thing?  Making it a parody of superhero comix must have been something pulled together in the editing studio in hopes of at least not embarrassing the project too badly.

 

[Zorral]

Why did I end up posting this twice after I tried to edit it to correct a typo?  Many apologies. This seems to happen often these days.

[RedEyedGhost]

1 hour ago, MisterOJ said:

Anybody watching Feed The Beast on AMC? 

I binged the first 4 or 5 episodes over the weekend and I enjoyed it. It's not super high quality television or anything, but a couple of the characters are interesting enough to keep me watching.

I like that quite a bit. Much more than I thought I would going in to it, but I had seen no trailers for it, and had no idea what it would be about (all I saw was teasers for it during the Preacher premier), so I really had zero expectations going in.

[MisterOJ]

15 minutes ago, RedEyedGhost said:

I like that quite a bit. Much more than I thought I would going in to it, but I had seen no trailers for it, and had no idea what it would be about (all I saw was teasers for it during the Preacher premier), so I really had zero expectations going in.

Yeah, I didn't know what to expect either. All I'd gathered was that David Schwimmer and a friend open a restaurant with some sort of shadiness going on. 

My biggest complaint is that everyone seems a little *too* interconnected right now. And David Schwimmer is annoying, but I did expect that from the outset.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

47 minutes ago, Zorral said:

It's visually so over the top that it's entirely entertaining.  It's quite imaginative too, but perhaps out of desperation rather than having any idea of what anybody involved was doing or thought they were doing? It's hilarious to see the god Horus become Iron Man, except Horus, being an Egyptian god, he's gold, of course. The Egyptian gods don't have blood, which is what distinguishes them from humans. They have gold in their veins instead.

It was a film that almost went straight to video; the reviewers found it risible, which is understandable, but maybe they missed something?

It takes a while to understand what this action adventure flick is: it is (almost) a parody of the action adventure superhero comix flix, employing our true first superheroes, the gods and goddesses of Egypt.  The story line follows fairly thoroughly, though updated, referencing Iron Man, the Egyptian Book of the Dead journey – i.e. the hero’s journey – and Egyptian founding gods’ mythology.  Even chariots pulled by scarabs!  The greatest achievement of all is Ra and his Solar Barge.  In fact, the Solar Barge and Ra are astounding visually.

I thoroughly enjoyed this silly thing. Though I’d never have spent the 18 bux at a cinema to see it, it was just fine to pass the time streaming from netflix.

One does wonder what the cast thought . . . a couple interesting figures in it -- Coster-Waldau and Rufus Sewell.  One can see that if the studio seriously expected this thing could become a franchise they had to be disappointed.  But how could they have thought any such thing?  Making it a parady of superhero comix must have been something pulled together in the editing studio in hopes of at least not embarrassing the project too badly.

I 100% agree with this. Personally my favorite parts were the over-dramatic speeches/monologues that were laugh out loud hysterical. Nothing seemed to come across as intended, but it failed in the greatest way possible. 

[RedEyedGhost]

12 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

Yeah, I didn't know what to expect either. All I'd gathered was that David Schwimmer and a friend open a restaurant with some sort of shadiness going on. 

My biggest complaint is that everyone seems a little *too* interconnected right now. And David Schwimmer is annoying, but I did expect that from the outset.

I think he's doing a really good job playing a character that's barely holding his shit together. I've been really impressed, so maybe it's just your preconceptions showing.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Leap said:

Also watched Jim Jefferies Freedumb, which wasn't bad (but I felt it was inferior to Bare). 

Agreed. I caught it this weekend and was kind of disappointed. Alcoholocaust and Fully Functional were also great. 

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I 100% agree with this. Personally my favorite parts were the over-dramatic speeches/monologues that were laugh out loud hysterical. Nothing seemed to come across as intended, but it failed in the greatest way possible. 

Whew!  Someone else saw it that way.

But definitely not worth what it would cost to see it in a theater, yet a lot of fun at home.  Particularly if the viewer is sick and can't concentrate much on anything.

 

[Castel]

Watched Generation Kill, in my endless journey through every recent war film.

So good. David Simon helps adapt it and it's the perfect work for him. Less traditional genre trappings and systemic incompetence makes David a happy boy   

It gives a view of the war that can best be described as a "controlled clusterfuck"   and that's entertaining in its own way. And certainly the people have to be made up cause no one is really that interesting in real life. 

Honestly...who else would have made this show? I feel like this is why "HBO miniseries" is such an overused phrase (well...more like a prayer), you can imagine them doing anything.

[GallowKnight]

I watched What we do in the Shadows, which was absolutely hilarious. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with the werewolf-centric sequel..

I also watched Conan the Barbarian, the original with Arnold not the Momoa version. As many times as I've watched this movie I have never noticed that there is a scene where someone is fucking a llama.

[Veltigar]

I finished the Sopranos' third season yesterday. I'm now a couple of episodes into season four and I have to say that I liked season three quite a bit more than the first two seasons. I feel like now is a better time to respond to some of the other posts concerning The Sopranos, since I have seen a bit more of it.

First, as I said earlier, I liked season three a lot more than the first two seasons. There were two episodes I didn't like (the second one which contains one of the worst special effects in the history of TV and the rape centric one, which I think was handled rather poorly, too many contrivancies and on-the-nose metaphors and stuff). To offset that though, there was also this one episode (where two characters wander around the wintery woods) which easily met my initial expactations for what this show could do. 

There is a couple of reasons I liked that third season better. For starters, I lucked out in the dead pool. Amongst the deceased, there were a lot of people I didn't really care for, while my favourite characters so far have been spared. At the same time, amongst the characters who were still alive at that point, I also had some luck. The characters I liked less seem to have been shuffled more into the background, while those I like more got more time in the spotlight. My luck also seems to continue, since I like

Spoiler

Bobby and Uncle June

a lot and they seem to be set-up for a bigger role in season four. 

There were also some pretty good action scenes in that third season. That gave it a more cinematic flair, but directing wise I still think this show (barring the occassional brilliant visual storytelling like 

Spoiler

that scene in what I think is the second episode of the fourth season, where Tony and Carmella are in their bath room, but they are standing about as far apart from another as humanly possible while still occupying that same space. That told you everything you needed to know about their marriage in one shot. That was great. 

) screams TV a bit to much. Although, it definitely happened less than in the first two seasons. 

Finally, there were a lot of smaller moments that I think just made the difference. And a lot of that came from just two minor characters. I really liked how

Spoiler

Dr. Krakower

called certain people out on their shit. That was a major mental smackdown and long overdue. I often feel like the show has its characters indulge in their (pretty much always) self-inflicted misery to the point of wallowing in it. So it's nice to have a character break through that pity party and just dish out some truth to these self-obsessed blowhards.

Another minor character I really liked was

Spoiler

Tracee.

Now that was a great example of a tragic character. She would have fit right in with The Wire. She showed that even in those messed up circumstances, there could still be some kindness. Now, it's true that it didn't help her one bit, but it was there. And that is what makes the difference. Good people don't always make it, but they aren't non-existent. The Sopranos can often get to coy with the misanthropic world view at its core, so it's nice to see someone going against the grain. 

Spoiler

Her death scene was also brutally effective. That was really hard to watch.

It's still not gripping me as much as The Wire, but I'll keep on trucking.

23 hours ago, GallowKnight said:

I watched What we do in the Shadows, which was absolutely hilarious. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with the werewolf-centric sequel..

There is a sequel planned? 

On 11-7-2016 at 3:41 PM, Tywin et al. said:

 

@Veltigar

Look:

Get on it!!!

All good things come to those who wait  

On 11-7-2016 at 4:17 PM, Wall Flower said:

Interesting post. I liked the Sopranos more than you but I also found the Wire superior. For me, the Sopranos was a bit claustrophobic being set in a world where everybody was criminal or enabler  I'm not violent but I frequently had the urge to slap one or more of the characters out of their self delusions and I rather wished they had had more of an outside perspective (like someone at the FBI perhaps).

I also had to deal with that urge. You really just want to smack these douches around. It's not even the horrendous shit they do that provokes me (there is plenty of that on pretty much every major cable show), it's the incessant self-pitying of these characters, while they are doing what they do, that really rubs me the wrong way. 

On 11-7-2016 at 4:17 PM, Wall Flower said:

The Wire definitely had more of an epic scope and I really agree that it was better at showing the resilience of human beings in the face of a bleak and seemingly hopeless environment. The characters were flawed but some of them showed humanity, defiance and even a kind of heroism.  

Yeah, The Wire was definitely better at showcasing all the various ways in which human beings can respond to a shitty situation. I often miss that about The Sopranos. 

On 11-7-2016 at 6:11 PM, DireWolfSpirit said:

The Sopranos was pretty masterful at using dark humor

I often chuckle during an episode that's true. My favourite exchange so far happened in Pine Barrens. That just completely floored me

On 11-7-2016 at 6:11 PM, DireWolfSpirit said:

The Sopranos was pretty masterful at using dark humor, while the Wire was a masterful inside view of the gritty, seedy side of urban crime ( drugs, port crime, organized graft), both were exceptionally well executed shows with top tier writing, acting and direction.

Both uniquely original, hard to think of anything else that really captured what either portrayed so fantastically well. I really miss that 2nd season of the Wire (the one at the port?) , just episode after episode of intrigueing storyline.

Well, when it comes down to mob stories, I think both Goodfellas and Gomorra (the film, I haven't seen the series) did a solid job at portraying mob life. I can't really think of something coming close to what The Wire did though. The scope and quality of that series was just to big. 

I'm more of a season 4 man when it comes down to The Wire. 

On 11-7-2016 at 6:32 PM, Cas Stark said:

  I'd venture a guess though if you don't like it so far you won't like the rest of it either.

Ha, I liked season three better, jokes on you  

On 11-7-2016 at 3:51 PM, Nictarion said:

I also don't think there's been a better pair of leads than James Gandolfini and Edie Falco. 

Gandolfini is great, I'll give you that. Falco, I have a harder time putting her on a piedestal. She's definitely good, but I can't really say that I can't picture anyone else in the role. I also feel like The Sopranos, despite genuinely speaking having a strong cast,  is not always flawless on the acting front. Someone like Jackie Jr. for instance, well they could have found a better actor for that part. It reminds me a bit of a certain other HBO show I won't mention on that front.

On 11-7-2016 at 3:08 PM, Mark Antony said:

I don't really find the Sopranos and Wire all that comparable other than being two of the best shows ever and on the same network

Well, they are both crime stories. They are both set in the same time period (compare the use of cellphones in both The Wire and The Sopranos). Both use a characterdriven narrative in often very closed subcultures (with that difference of course that The Sopranos never changes its subculture, while The Wire zooms in on a new one every season). There are huge differences sure, but there is also a lot of fundamental stuff that is very similar imo.

On 11-7-2016 at 3:08 PM, Mark Antony said:

 Don't think the show is dated at all, I watch it once every couple of years and it gets better every time imo.

Well, I wouldn't say that the show overall is dated exactly. It's hard to label a show that has been so influential as dated, but the way it was shot, at least in those first two seasons, makes it feel more dated than it actually is. It's a lot more TVey than premium cable shows nowadays. Which makes sense, since it's the eldest (barring Oz, which I haven't seen yet). We have come a long way since The Sopranos. 

On 11-7-2016 at 3:08 PM, Mark Antony said:

 The dialogue definitely still holds up, it's natural and fucking hilarious a lot of the time. 

That's something I feel like I'm missing out on sometimes. Since I'm not an American and have never visited Jersey, there is stuff that I wonder about. Like, I know the US has a reputation for obesity (not that I want to insult anyone here), but I can be baffled by the amount of food that is consumed in the course of this series. And I'm not just talking about genuine meals, but the amount of crappy pizza, huge sundays or magnums the characters keep stuffing their faces with at all times of the day, I feel my cholestoral rising in sympathy just from watching the damn thing. 

On 11-7-2016 at 3:08 PM, Mark Antony said:

 

On 11-7-2016 at 3:08 PM, Mark Antony said:

Season two is one of my favorites (love them all though). Ritchie Aprille was one of the best antagonists to Tony. Soo not sure if watching more would make much of a difference to change your mind but I do rate seasons 5 and 6b among the best single seasons of any show. 

I liked the ending of his arc and the actor was very creepy. The story surrounding him was a bit to much spinning of the wheels imo. 

[Veltigar]

Oh, I also saw Point Break yesterday. A friend was about to watch it when I dropped by, so I decided to stick around. It's actually pretty well made and I was kind of impressed by it until the last act. It went more than a little bit nuts there. That really brought the film down imo and lessened the impact of the ending. Still, I'm glad I have seen it. Point Break with cars is definitely better though imo. 

[GallowKnight]

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

There is a sequel planned? 

Yes, focusing on the werewolf group, I believe it is supposed to be called We're Wolves.

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

. Point Break with cars is definitely better though imo. 

Blasphemy.