Pink Letter/Northern Conspiracy Theory

[FoyeTwenty Boston]

 

 

 

Lets assume for a second the Umbers are not Stark or Bolton loyalist but simply opportunists. Bran told Rickon and Osha to go to the Last Hearth so they got lucky and have been waiting for the right time to play their trump card. I've been thinking of how giving Rickon up by the Umbers could be all part of the plan. Or rather, what that plan could possibly be. So bare with the speculation.

So right off the bat, whatever this plan is, success can't rest on Rickon surviving. The chances of Ramsey just killing him immediately are too great. So I propose the Umbers are more concerned about gaining Ramsey's trust. If simply getting into his good graces and confidence is the goal, why not bend the knee? I speculate this trust is to properly position their Umber forces within the walls of Winterfell and in the camps prior to the battle. But do the Umber's alone have the power to take on the Boltons/Karstarks/ect? No, I don't think so.

Let's look at Littlefinger. His original plan was to let Stannis and the Boltons fight it out cleaning up a weakened victor with the Vale forces. He would have never obtained KL support without Sansa being Winterfell or been able to Rally the Vale so easly. So that move makes sense, more in hindsight. Worst case scenario there are no Starks left, but someone will still need to rule. He has the crown's (Lannister) support for this with a promise to be made Warden of the North.

I speculate that at some point on his travels back to the Vale after dropping Sansa off he become aware of the Umbers in possession of Rickon. Perhaps he was seeking out Northern Houses support and learned of Rickon that way. Either way I think LF knows about Rickon and is allied with the Umbers.

I think the plan is for Rickon to die and to marry a rescued Sansa to Jon Umber. Jon Snow is a token Stark to rally behind during the war but not a real Stark with a claim. The key to the North is Sansa or a Lannister KL appointment.

LF will give Sansa , the position of Warden of the North and Winterfell to Jon Umber in return for Northern support to call the banners when it is time for LF to obtain his ultimate goal, the Iron Throne.

I don't think he will make his move until after the Sparrows, Tyrells, Lannister come to a conclusion, again confronting the weakened victor.

Now LF has at his back, the North, the Vale, the Riverlands because, by his own word, he'll literally will "join the Freys" , the Lords of the Riverlands". The only thing standing in his way are the remaining forces in Kings Landing and individual houses. Maybe Dorne as region but really why would they care. LF should marry Ellaria and call it a day. Maybe I'm if the Tyrells come out on top, he's still cool with them I think.

It's not a terrible plan. Though I am reaching

[FoyeTwenty Boston]

 

Lets assume for a second the Umbers are not Stark or Bolton loyalist but simply opportunists. Bran told Rickon and Osha to go to the Last Hearth so they got lucky and have been waiting for the right time to play their trump card. I've been thinking of how giving Rickon up by the Umbers could be all part of the plan. Or rather, what that plan could possibly be. So bare with the speculation.

So right off the bat, whatever this plan is, success can't rest on Rickon surviving. The chances of Ramsey just killing him immediately are too great. So I propose the Umbers are more concerned about gaining Ramsey's trust. If simply getting into his good graces and confidence is the goal, why not bend the knee? I speculate this trust is to properly position their Umber forces within the walls of Winterfell and in the camps prior to the battle. But do the Umber's alone have the power to take on the Boltons/Karstarks/ect? No, I don't think so.

Let's look at Littlefinger. His original plan was to let Stannis and the Boltons fight it out cleaning up a weakened victor with the Vale forces. He would have never obtained KL support without Sansa being Winterfell or been able to Rally the Vale so easly. So that move makes sense, more in hindsight. Worst case scenario there are no Starks left, but someone will still need to rule. He has the crown's (Lannister) support for this with a promise to be made Warden of the North.

I speculate that at some point on his travels back to the Vale after dropping Sansa off he become aware of the Umbers in possession of Rickon. Perhaps he was seeking out Northern Houses support and learned of Rickon that way. Either way I think LF knows about Rickon and is allied with the Umbers.

I think the plan is for Rickon to die and to marry a rescued Sansa to Jon Umber. Jon Snow is a token Stark to rally behind during the war but not a real Stark with a claim. (Ignore outside  speculation of facts LF/Umbers don't have) The key to the North is Sansa or a Lannister KL appointment.

LF will give Sansa , the position of Warden of the North and Winterfell to Jon Umber in return for Northern support to call the banners when it is time for LF to obtain his ultimate goal, the Iron Throne.

I don't think he will make his move until after the Sparrows, Tyrells, Lannister come to a conclusion, again confronting the weakened victor.

Now LF has at his back, the North, the Vale, the Riverlands because, by his own word, he'll literally will "join the Freys" , the Lords of the Riverlands". The only thing standing in his way are the remaining forces in Kings Landing and individual houses. Maybe Dorne as region but really why would they care. LF should marry Ellaria and call it a day. Maybe  Margaery if the Tyrells come out on top, he's still cool with them I think.

It's not a terrible plan. Though I am reaching

[Sigrid]

10 hours ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

There's no conspiracy. This really isn't hard to understand.

Unfortunately I would say it's true there's no conspiracy.  Direwolf size is just a continuity error (and not the first one).

[Sigrid]

5 hours ago, Xarkar said:

The sad part is Shaggydog... poor guy.  Makes me wonder what role, if ANY the wolves are going to have in the future.

 

I agree.  The book so carefully shows the parallels between the Starks and their wolves, keeps them a part of the story.  So often the wolves on the show are an afterthought it seems.

[TickTak7]

4 hours ago, FoyeTwenty Boston said:

 

Lets assume for a second the Umbers are not Stark or Bolton loyalist but simply opportunists. Bran told Rickon and Osha to go to the Last Hearth so they got lucky and have been waiting for the right time to play their trump card. I've been thinking of how giving Rickon up by the Umbers could be all part of the plan. Or rather, what that plan could possibly be. So bare with the speculation.

So right off the bat, whatever this plan is, success can't rest on Rickon surviving.  

Exactly. 

There's no plan. 

There's no GNC involving The Umbers. 

There is NO WAY that a house loyal to the Starks, would give a Stark to the enemy to be tortured and killed. 

None. 

Trying to gain vengeance for the Starks by sacrificing a Stark? Just no, lol. 

 

[Illiterati]

On 5/18/2016 at 3:13 PM, Tagganaro said:

I've actually seen a compelling argument made that Littlefinger is the writer of the Pink Letter.  The theory focuses specifically on the phrase "come and see" which the show's Pink Letter repeats and emphasizes.  Coincidentally (or not, according to this theory), LF says exactly that when he goes to meet Sweet Robin and shows him his gift of a falcon.  LF also seems to clearly desire Jon/Sansa taking an army to the Boltons at Winterfell as that's exactly where he's headed with the Knights of the Vale.  

I subscribe to this argument.  I don't think SmallJon is strategic enough to drop Rickon as bait and then write a taunting letter.  I also find it serendipitous that Rickon gets deposited, and LF appears in the next episode beating the war drums.

[Ser Morbid]

On 19. 5. 2016 at 4:51 AM, tmug said:

I swear to god, if Ramsay dies by a backstab just as he is going to kill Jon Snow in the Bastard Bowl I am done with this show.

^ Amen brother

[Lemore]

3 hours ago, TickTak7 said:

Exactly. 

There's no plan. 

There's no GNC involving The Umbers. 

There is NO WAY that a house loyal to the Starks, would give a Stark to the enemy to be tortured and killed. 

None. 

Trying to gain vengeance for the Starks by sacrificing a Stark? Just no, lol. 

 

Spot on. It makes no sense what so ever to believe that the Umbers are double crossing Ramsay because they're loyal to the Starks, none.

[Others Take Them]

I seem to recall a casting call for a young northern lord who appears in one episode but has a big scene with important dialogue. I have a feeling this was that scene and that lord.

The show is not the type of animal to include the kind of multi-faceted conspiracy suggested by the OP this late in the game, why else do you think they amputated Dorne?

Everything is pretty much as it appears to be. 

[White Harbors Wrath]

2 hours ago, Others Take Them said:

I seem to recall a casting call for a young northern lord who appears in one episode but has a big scene with important dialogue. I have a feeling this was that scene and that lord.

The show is not the type of animal to include the kind of multi-faceted conspiracy suggested by the OP this late in the game, why else do you think they amputated Dorne?

Everything is pretty much as it appears to be. 

Which scene? The Umber scene? That casting call you're talking about was completely separate from the Umber one.

[Rhymes with Sneak]

On 5/18/2016 at 6:13 PM, Tagganaro said:

I've actually seen a compelling argument made that Littlefinger is the writer of the Pink Letter.  The theory focuses specifically on the phrase "come and see" which the show's Pink Letter repeats and emphasizes.  Coincidentally (or not, according to this theory), LF says exactly that when he goes to meet Sweet Robin and shows him his gift of a falcon.  LF also seems to clearly desire Jon/Sansa taking an army to the Boltons at Winterfell as that's exactly where he's headed with the Knights of the Vale.  

This makes much more sense.  I would add that if there is a Northern Conspiracy involving the Umbers, it would make more sense that Littlefinger is in cahoots with the Umbers rather than that they are still loyal to the Starks.  Turning over Rickon makes sense if LF bribed him to do it to spark the battle.  That might have been why LF turned Sansa over to the Boltons.  He knew Ramsay was a monster, and he thought that would prompt Jon Snow to attack Winterfell to save her.  

[Rhymes with Sneak]

7 hours ago, Illiterati said:

I subscribe to this argument.  I don't think SmallJon is strategic enough to drop Rickon as bait and then write a taunting letter.  I also find it serendipitous that Rickon gets deposited, and LF appears in the next episode beating the war drums.

Plus, anyone using Rickon as bait has something other than Stark loyalty motivating him.  Umber would have to be an idiot to not realize Jon Snow would blame him for whatever happened to Rickon even if the GNC somehow worked.  No one could realistically think Rickon will emerge unscathed from his imprisonment, even if he lives.  No, the only clean motivation for someone to forge a letter is LF, who appears to be trying to spark a war between Snow and Bolton.  I think that is why he turned Sansa over to the Boltons in the first place.   Now he just needs to make sure Umber dies in the battle to avoid pointing the finger at him.  

[Kris370]

I'm quite a Stark supporter and would love for it not to be true about Rickon and Shaggy or it to be some kind of conspiracy too, but honestly I doubt it. I'm a massive book fan and quite critical of the show in my own opinion, I understand that it has to be different yet sometimes it annoys me, but I see alot of people here getting on their high horse because they think it's not playing out how GRRM will(maybe one day) write it in the books, that bad things won't happen to Rickon or Shaggy and that Ramsey won't get anymore good fortune. Thing is we have no idea how WoW will play out and there definitely is a chance that GRRM will shove it a bit further up our hopes and dreams for the Starks. People need to start accepting that, and if I'm wrong the fantastic, at least it'll be a happy surprise instead of another devastating one. Anyway given how much people think this has drifted from the possible outcomes in the books, here's my couple of theories on how the show could end up back close to where the books are and how the books could possibly end up nearer to what we're seeing on TV:

 

(Been a while since my last read through so if any of my points are a bit off i apologise and feel free to put me right)

 

 

 

1)

Show moving back on track with the books a bit... Ish. After episode 3 I made a topic on here with this theory but it went to pending and then 5 minutes later disappeared forever and it was so long I couldn't be bothered re typing it out, anyway seeing episode 4 certain things were definitely wrong so I guess it was a blessing. The jist though, was that it's a long march south for Jon, and through alot of other territories, firstly the Umbers. What if he ends up stopping by the Last Hearth and we see the Umber split from the books with Smalljon(in the series) being a traitor and the rest of house Umber joining up with Jon after he shows up with Sansa. Also since episode 4 I'm pretty convinced LF is using Whiteharbor to move north and south which would insinuate the Manderlys involvement so this could open up the GNC in the show very similar to the books.

 

2) The books ending up near where the show is now... Hopefully not though. There's a pretty good chance Davos is off to get Rickon via The Manderlys, so it's likely Rickon will end up back in Whiteharbor. In the show Stannis loses the battle at WF, now what if in the books the GNC along with Stannis also lose the fight, leaving the Manderlys quite literally in the dog house with the Boltons, and they end up handing over Rickon as a deal breaker. This could leave us in a position where Ramsey has Rickon, but also has a force that has been severely weakened in a recent battle, and plays out for a more even footing when Jon and the wildlings ride south? Also there's room for LF and Sansa to come north at a similar time with the Vale banners to get involved somehow? The only thing here is the book pink letter, unless Ramsey sends another. 

 

[TickTak7]

 

11 hours ago, Lemore said:

Spot on. It makes no sense what so ever to believe that the Umbers are double crossing Ramsay because they're loyal to the Starks, none.

+1. 

Show version of the GNC is dead. 

 

[Aegon_Blackfyre]

I have to admit there is more chance of the Umbers litteraly just being traitors in the show and shaggy dogs head being a continuity error like when melisandre was still young without her necklace on in an earlier season.

With this post i just thought it would be fun to voice my opinion on how there could still be a GNC even though like many of you have pointed out they show isn't one for including large confusing plots and in truth in doesn't really need one sorrounding WF and the North it will be enjoyable enough to see Jon fighting and hopefully defeating Ramsay.

As much as I would hope Rickon was used as bait to lure Jon south, it is kinda stupid handing him to a psycopath like Ramsay if secretely you wanted to keep him safe, also No one knows outside of CB That Jon was dead so everyone would know he's still stuck to uphold his oath to the NW.

Overall it's just up to opinion at the moment and as much as I want a GNC in the show its up to later episodes to prove to us that there was a small conspiracy in the north or will prove that there is no conspiracy since the show doesn't want to over complicate things for its viewers. So there most likely isn't a Conspiracy sorrounding WF but some of us can still hope there's some loyalty left in the Umbers....somewhere 

 

[C.T. Phipps]

Honestly, I think the Umbers are making the right decision. The Wildlings massacred the Gift. Better one psychopath than an entire clan of them.

[Jack Bauer 24]

On 5/19/2016 at 10:51 PM, tmug said:

I swear to god, if Ramsay dies by a backstab just as he is going to kill Jon Snow in the Bastard Bowl I am done with this show.

[Jack Bauer 24]

On 5/19/2016 at 10:51 PM, tmug said:

I swear to god, if Ramsay dies by a backstab just as he is going to kill Jon Snow in the Bastard Bowl I am done with this show.

No you won't. You're not fooling anyone.

[tmug]

On 5/21/2016 at 9:05 PM, Jack Bauer 24 said:

No you won't. You're not fooling anyone.

Dude, there has been that cheesy, last second heroic move in just about every episode this season. That move, overused, is no longer suspenseful rather it is almost expected now. Even Bran was like, "WTF that backstabbing shit is BS!" Millions of dollars poured into each episode and that is the best they can come up with?

[Slaysman]

On 5/22/2016 at 2:17 AM, tmug said:

Dude, there has been that cheesy, last second heroic move in just about every episode this season. That move, overused, is no longer suspenseful rather it is almost expected now. Even Bran was like, "WTF that backstabbing shit is BS!" Millions of dollars poured into each episode and that is the best they can come up with?

I agree about that scene. As an avid reader of the books I had expected Howland Reed to be that bad ass fighter out of nowhere. Nope, cut cut down in the first couple of seconds in battle by Arthur Dayne. Of course it is in keeping with the tales of how they wage war. Ned looked all horrified at Howland, and Howland was like what?