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Scott Lynch's THORN OF EMBERLAIN


Werthead

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Speaking as a writer, I've actually had fans get up in my face about the fact my books have ended on cliffhangers and told me that I should just have the books done as a complete story with each volume.

I even got my first bit of hatemail (which I intend to frame and mount) when it was discovered that I had split two of my books in two. This gives me a perspective on the concept of the reader-writer "contract" so to speak. Because I've been, much to my self-awareness, on the other end of the argument where I think a writer should just get their next volume out.

I think my view is the moderate path that fans have a right to be pissed about and grouse when authors don't finish their work in a timely manner (or at all). However, I don't think this is the same as authors actually having an obligation to do it in a certain time either. The nature of art is it's created when inspiration strikes and how matters work. Art happens as the author wills it and circumstances allow.

A story will come out when it comes out and it make not be the way you want it to or the way fans expect. Sherlock Holmes may end up at the bottom of a river without coming back, Jo and Laurie may die, and George R.R. Martin may decide he isn't going to finish the series to work on Wild Cards for the rest of his life. That's perfectly valid to gripe about and be upset about but it's how the cookie crumbles I think.

In Scott's case, I'm saddened by the delay but these things happen and countless other authors need love inbetween.

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I tend to agree that it's not insane for someone to be annoyed. Even if I recognize it happens it's irksome. It doesn't make GRRM my bitch and give me carte blanche, but I wouldn't judge people for being a bit miffed.

 

Of course, fans can take matters into their own hands and just not read unfinished series or series from people who have timing issues, though a lot of people who remain plugged into fantasy obviously find this outcome to be undesirable for a number of reasons. At this stage, for me? I'm considering it.

I don't know that I would have read Martin if not spurred by the eminent arrival of the series.  

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On 13/08/2016 at 4:31 PM, mormont said:

I'm sure they're not. But... you know where those 20% of lazy writers mostly are? They're sitting at home or working other jobs because if you're a writer who can't be bothered to work at it, you almost certainly won't get published in the first place.

That's the difference. It's like being a pro athlete, or a musician, or an actor. It's just about possible that you can coast on natural talent but 99% of people don't have the talent to make it on that alone.

ETA - this has now wandered seriously off topic, for which I apologise. Let's get back to specifically news about the Thorn of Emberlain, if there is any.

possibly, there is also a thing that some people become lazy after they get successful, because they can (i totally get that, if suddenly became rich and famous i'd enjoy the shit out of it, not sit at a computer all day).  

i think that the GRRM thing, and to a lesser extent the books of Lynch the most annoying thing is not just the time between books, but the fact that it doesn't translate to quality.  if AFFC and ADWD had been as good as the first 3 i wouldn't have cared about the wait.  and don't get me started on the last Locke book.

any news would be good news about the the new book, personally with authors i'd rather they gave really long projections, then any movement would be good news. 

 

 

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Am I alone in really-really-really wanting Sabetha not to get with Locke?

Because the whole idea of Locke the Ace Thief of AwesomeTM *NOT* getting the girl for the perfectly valid reasons which Sabetha spells out is awesomely subversive. Screw the redhead thing, I mean that Locke acts entitled to her and really-really wants her.

And she just doesn't want to play second-fiddle to him.

Then Locke just has to deal with disappointment.

It'd be awesome.

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I'd be fine with that. Then again, I don't really "ship" characters (it's an easy path to being disappointed) - as long as whatever happens makes narrative sense, I can usually live with it.

More to the point of Sabetha, I think he needs to grow out of puppy love. There's a reason most of us don't end up with our teenage sweethearts - we grow up, become less childish in our wants/needs, and begin to have independent personalities. Locke has put Sabetha on a pedestal and I think an important part of growing up is realizing that the teenage you makes poor decisions. Speaking personally, I'd rather have Sabetha be the yin to his yang - both working opposite sides on a cause. The history between them would color things, but there would be no chance of them ending up "together" because of it. Or to die and be a motivation.

Not that I expect it to be that way, mind. I expect her alive and well through at least the next book and into the following one (the last flashback book).

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8 hours ago, banjax451 said:

I'd be fine with that. Then again, I don't really "ship" characters (it's an easy path to being disappointed) - as long as whatever happens makes narrative sense, I can usually live with it.

I generally anti-ship characters. Literature, for whatever reason, rarely ever has the kind of "will they or won't they" of other media as the people who are going to be couples tend to be blindingly obvious and go from point A to point B. At least in television there's the wild card element of actors leaving or stress behind the set or multiple writers.

My two primary Anti-Ships are:

Locke/Sabetha

Kvothe/Denna

So seeing them not get together would be quite a boon.

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Of course there are differences between those two pairings, but for me, it's such a bizarrely similar situation that I have trouble keeping the two relationships separate. Two very flawed main characters who just need to get the hell over their first love, both of whom are women who seem to be doing just fine on their own. Kvothe and his narration may be (well, probably is) portraying his lady-love through rose-tinted glasses. We can more directly see Locke's misguided crush. 

In both cases, I very much hope the next episode has the dopey lovelorn main snapping out of it. And in both cases, I hope the female leads have strong arcs of their own, whether tragic or heroic, not necessarily tied to our main protagonist. I totally agree that as currently written, the two relationships working out would lead to plenty of eye-rolls from readers.

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The difference is that Locke/Sabetha is consciously unhealthy. It's an explicit commentary on gender relations that makes for disturbing reading, but the text clearly intends Locke to come across as misguided.

Kvothe/Denna is unhealthy too, but the most disturbing thing about it is that I'm not sure if Rothfuss intended it to be read like that.

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On 8/4/2016 at 11:09 AM, Calibandar said:

Well it would be nice for him to at least post an update now. Clearly the book isn't coming out in September as confirmed, and most likely there is a reason that once again pertains to Scott himself. The book has been delayed several times already and an explanation, and especially a genuine ETA for Thorn, would be what I'm interested in. It's really..... unfortunate... to announce a a long awaited book's publication and then not to pull through.

On the possible upside, 2017 is looking like the year every favorite author releases a book. If only George..

I once thought that this will be 2016.... I was cute summer child :(

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Well, in Locke's case, he's written as misguided and just stumbling over himself in the worst possible way. Sabetha and Locke have a lot of history as well as a decent amount of chemistry so it wouldn't be awful if they got together but it would be disappointing to me.

However, the narrative seems predominately on Locke's side even as we even have the possibility of (ugh) destiny being on the side of the two being reincarnated lovers. Certainly, Locke's inability to even conceive of other women existing is meant to be romantic but I actually find unsettlingly indicative of us trying to support Locke/Sabetha.

The fact the Republic of Thieves DID subvert the typical fantasy expectations by portraying Locke as having entitlement issues, completely confused why his devotion wasn't being rewarded with Sabethas love, and flat out ignoring all of Sabetha's own many issues is what really made her a character which stood out to me and why I forgive that book a lot. The LoLL may be the better book but ROT justified itself by tearing into stereotypical fantasy romance in a subtle even-handed away.

As for Kvothe/Denna, I tend to note we already know that Kvothe is never going to amend his behavior as a decade (or however long the innkeeper sections are),later he's still calling her the most beautiful fascinating woman who ever lived. I do give Bast credit for pointing out Kvothe definitely has some rose colored memories going on here.

I think Rothfuss is meant for us to support Denna/Kvothe but the parallels with Breakfast at Tiffanys (the movie) are ones I'm recognizing as quite a few things from the way Denna dresses to her profession and the "running scared like a deer" elements are familiar.' It's just, well, Kvothe does have the same entitlement issues as Locke but the narrative makes it clear they DON'T get together and I don't think Denna will pop through the door at the inn by the time the story ends.

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6 minutes ago, sologdin said:

congrats to them--though the 'spare time' remark may earn an asskicking.

He was married once... You'd think he would have learned. :lol: 

I still don't understand how they could have had a hard date and still missed it this badly...

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13 minutes ago, Rhom said:

He was married once... You'd think he would have learned. :lol: 

I still don't understand how they could have had a hard date and still missed it this badly...

I think they tried to do an ADWD. With ADWD they announced a date before the final 100% MS was turned in, which was a bit dangerous, but George was close enough that he thought it'd be okay. And they worked like gangbusters to make it happen (and only just about managed it).

I suspect this was a similar situation and they were close enough, but in this case they drifted over the cut-off date.

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13 hours ago, sologdin said:

congrats to them--though the 'spare time' remark may earn an asskicking.

I take that to be talking about planning the wedding, not his relationship :P don't project on Scott!

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On 8/18/2016 at 11:29 AM, banjax451 said:

Gollancz/Scott finally break the news officially...

http://www.gollancz.co.uk/2016/08/an-update-from-scott-lynch/

No new date.  Just a note to ignore all of the db dates for now.

 

He re-iterated this at Worldcon. He said he is still hoping for the next major publication slot.

Also, he did a reading at Worldcon from Thorn, which, from I could tell, (because I haven't been following developments closely) was new material. He introduced new characters from the Vadran (spelling) people, who at some point will come in conflict with Locke and Jean. Though they are not bad people, just that their interests will be opposed.

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1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

He re-iterated this at Worldcon. He said he is still hoping for the next major publication slot.

Also, he did a reading at Worldcon from Thorn, which, from I could tell, (because I haven't been following developments closely) was new material. He introduced new characters from the Vadran (spelling) people, who at some point will come in conflict with Locke and Jean. Though they are not bad people, just that their interests will be opposed.

Yeah...that line "next major publication slot." That's the consequence of missing the September slot. I wonder if the calendar is full for 2016 and since Gollancz and Del Rey have already announced their schedules for Winter/Spring...it wouldn't shock me if we don't see this book before April/May/June. I'd be happy to be wrong, of course.

It'd be nice if we could get a prologue or snippet, but i'm selfish that way - totally understand that this is not in his control and there are all kinds of reasons to hold on to those until closer to publication.

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