Scott Lynch's THORN OF EMBERLAIN

[Brendan Moody]

The way Gollancz and Lynch announced the September 2016 date in May of that year made it sound like the book was done and would have been out even earlier if not for the opportunity to time it to coincide with Lynch visiting the UK. But they never actually said it was done, and Lynch said later that the ending was outlined but not written and earlier material needed substantial revision. They were evidently trying to do what GRRM did with A Dance with Dragons, setting a final date and starting the push toward publication while the author finished up the final draft. If so, it obviously backfired in the worst way possible.

[Werthead]

If anything,it's an extremely conservative date given how much Scott has said he has done for the fourth book. So they may be wanting to publish sooner but are way of expectations, or they may want to give Scott more lead time on Book 5 (which is what happened with Book 3 and 4 though, so that may not work).

[Vaughn]

I wonder how this works economically for him. Does a writer at his level get sufficient advances from his publishers to largely support him while he works on the book and then he gets more when the book is eventually published? Or does delayed publication mean he has to spend more time going to various cons to get paid by those to augment the GB income stream? 

 

 

[williamjm]

10 minutes ago, Vaughn said:

I wonder how this works economically for him. Does a writer at his level get sufficient advances from his publishers to largely support him while he works on the book and then he gets more when the book is eventually published? Or does delayed publication mean he has to spend more time going to various cons to get paid by those to augment the GB income stream?

SF/Fantasy literary cons traditionally don't pay their guests (except for expenses), so I doubt he's going to be supplementing his income that way.

I remember back around the time that he posted on here that he used to work part-time as a firefighter but I've no idea if he still does that.

He has published a few pieces of short fiction (I think there's one in this month's The Books of Swords) so he'll get some income from that, but I don't think there's much money in short fiction.

[Maltaran]

IIRC he got a large amount of money from selling the movie rights to TLOLL

[Werthead]

Yup, he got a fortune from selling the film rights. Also, the Gentleman Bastard series is still selling very strongly, hundreds of thousands of copies despite no new books coming out for a while. I suspect this is down to the reputation of the series for being made up of stand-alone adventures. The really heavy serialisation apparently won't kick in until the final three books of the series, so people are happier to read the first three books now even if they've been burned on Rothfuss and other authors.

[Vaughn]

These books are a perfect example of how to me written violence isn't as impactful as filmed violence. I like these books a lot as ripping yarns. I recommended them to a friend who was surprised at how violent they were. And on reflection they really are but the narrative flow just glides over people getting stabbed, etc... all the time. So a filmed version would either have to strip a lot of that detail out or go premium cable. What's funny though is unlike GRRM books, I feel like a PG version of these books would still be pretty great. 

Glad he got paid. I'd be as shocked if these made it to series as if Amber does. 

[Gertrude]

On 10/26/2017 at 1:29 PM, Werthead said:

The really heavy serialisation apparently won't kick in until the final three books of the series, so people are happier to read the first three books now even if they've been burned on Rothfuss and other authors.

It took me, like, FOREVER to learn my lesson, but I now have a firm rule that I actually stick to when starting new book series.

Is it finished? Yes --> enjoy!  No--> put it down now and walk away! I said put it down!

Luckily I started the Gentlemen Bastards when I was still just experimenting with the rules.

 

eta: I realized I lied, I did read the last Hobb trilogy as it came out, but she has a good track record and I was too invested in her other works not to. So yeah, apparently not a hard and fast rule. sheesh.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 hours ago, Gertrude said:

It took me, like, FOREVER to learn my lesson, but I now have a firm rule that I actually stick to when starting new book series.

Is it finished? Yes --> enjoy!  No--> put it down now and walk away! I said put it down!

Luckily I started the Gentlemen Bastards when I was still just experimenting with the rules.

 

eta: I realized I lied, I did read the last Hobb trilogy as it came out, but she has a good track record and I was too invested in her other works not to. So yeah, apparently not a hard and fast rule. sheesh.

I have gave up on that rule a long time ago.  I started ASOIAF under the presumption that it was done... I saw 3 books and figured I was good.

[Calibandar]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

It took me, like, FOREVER to learn my lesson, but I now have a firm rule that I actually stick to when starting new book series.

Is it finished? Yes --> enjoy!  No--> put it down now and walk away! I said put it down!

Luckily I started the Gentlemen Bastards when I was still just experimenting with the rules.

 

eta: I realized I lied, I did read the last Hobb trilogy as it came out, but she has a good track record and I was too invested in her other works not to. So yeah, apparently not a hard and fast rule. sheesh.

Hobb has deserved that trust because she has such reliable output once she starts a series.

[KiDisaster]

4 hours ago, Gertrude said:

It took me, like, FOREVER to learn my lesson, but I now have a firm rule that I actually stick to when starting new book series.

Is it finished? Yes --> enjoy!  No--> put it down now and walk away! I said put it down!

Luckily I started the Gentlemen Bastards when I was still just experimenting with the rules.

 

eta: I realized I lied, I did read the last Hobb trilogy as it came out, but she has a good track record and I was too invested in her other works not to. So yeah, apparently not a hard and fast rule. sheesh.

I have the same rule now after getting burned three times by Lynch, Martin & Rothfuss. 

I'm sticking to it...mostly. >.> 

[mormont]

I dunno, maybe it was growing up reading from a library that might have only volume 2 of a series in stock (no volume 1 or 3), in a time when I had no way of knowing how many volumes there might be in a series, when I had only a fuzzy idea of who the authors even were and when it was genuinely hard to find books even if they'd been published.

But for me the idea that the only satisfying read is a series I know is, or will soon be, complete seems... a bit sad? I'd put it in the same category as people who absolutely have to finish a book once they've started. It's like, are you reading for pleasure or out to satisfy some completionist urge?

If Scott Lynch never writes another word, he wrote three great books (and several short stories) that I really enjoyed. I'd 100% rather have read the incomplete Gentleman Bastards than not have read them at all.

[Rhom]

24 minutes ago, KiDisaster said:

I have the same rule now after getting burned three times by Lynch, Martin & Rothfuss. 

I'm sticking to it...mostly. >.> 

It’s so hard to know though... I feel safe with Abercrombie, Lawrence, Abraham, and Sanderson; but I thought I would be safe with Lynch.  

And on the other side, The Lies if Locke Lamora is still one of my favorite books on its own merits.  I would hate to think that I would miss out on a great (mostly) stand-alone book because I had a hard rule.

Additionally, none of us would be here discussing this today if we all had that rule... we are on a board dedicated to a series that I have come to accept will never be finished in text form.

[Winterfella]

Amen to the last two posts.  And on the other side of the coin, I am probably going to shuffle off this mortal coil in the middle of maybe several series that I never finish.  Which will piss me off.  But if I never read another word of Lynch, Rothfuss and Martin, I'm glad I read what I did.

[Gertrude]

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I have gave up on that rule a long time ago.  I started ASOIAF under the presumption that it was done... I saw 3 books and figured I was good.

So did I! *sigh*

My 'rule' is more tongue in cheek than actual fact. I'm in the middle of a few series that have no end in sight and I don't really regret starting them. But my list of 'to read' is long, so if I have a choice, I'll avoid the unfinished series. I've eyed Rothfuss a few times, but that has stayed unread. and I'm now realizing I am in the middle of the new unfinished series by Tad Williams. So yeah, I'm a fraud. But I won't lie - while I know that no author is my bitch, I can't help but feel a little like my trust had been abused in the past. I know, I know that I am not owed anything, but it's how I feel, even if it's not rational. Lynch I am understanding of his circumstances and don't feel this way about, because he has shared his struggle with his fans.

[KiDisaster]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

I dunno, maybe it was growing up reading from a library that might have only volume 2 of a series in stock (no volume 1 or 3), in a time when I had no way of knowing how many volumes there might be in a series, when I had only a fuzzy idea of who the authors even were and when it was genuinely hard to find books even if they'd been published.

But for me the idea that the only satisfying read is a series I know is, or will soon be, complete seems... a bit sad? I'd put it in the same category as people who absolutely have to finish a book once they've started. It's like, are you reading for pleasure or out to satisfy some completionist urge?

If Scott Lynch never writes another word, he wrote three great books (and several short stories) that I really enjoyed. I'd 100% rather have read the incomplete Gentleman Bastards than not have read them at all.

I am reading for pleasure, and I'm being overly dramatic with the impatience and such, I don't actually regret reading any of these books. Name of the Wind & Wise Man's Fear, for all their faults, are probably my favorite fantasy books I've ever read. I don't generally read a book more than once, but I've read each of them four goddamn times now. 

However I am the kind of person who will for instance continue watching a movie that I'm hating because I need to know how it ends. Less so with books, I'll abandon one I'm not enjoying because they take so much more time, but I guess there is a bit of a completionist aspect for me. I need closure. Or, at the very least, a confirmed lack of it if that makes sense. I'd be disappointed but in a weird way relieved if Lynch for example announced that he was just done with the series and what we've got now is it. 

It's not so much a hard rule for me anyway, even if that's what I'm calling it. I already know I'll probably pick up Abercrombie's new trilogy from the very first book because I'm already invested in that universe. I guess the way I look at it is there's so many awesome series out there I haven't read that are already done, and I'd rather focus on those first while I wait for the newer ones. 

[Calibandar]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

. But I won't lie - while I know that no author is my bitch, I can't help but feel a little like my trust had been abused in the past. I know, I know that I am not owed anything, but it's how I feel, even if it's not rational. Lynch I am understanding of his circumstances and don't feel this way about, because he has shared his struggle with his fans.

It's not irrational at all. Of course there is an implicit agreement between author and reader that if the author decides to publish a 3 part series instead of a standalone book, both reader and author are doing the deal based on the solid assumption that the story gets finished. If that really wasn't there, as some people like to claim in defense of an author, these books would get bought in much reduced quantities. On the one hand you can say, you paid for 1 book so that is what you're owed, but that is a narrow view that does not fit with real life. In real life, you buy part 1 of a series bearing in mind that you will also get resolution to the story the same way you would in a "normal" standalone book, you just have to wait for it.

[HexMachina]

52 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

It's not irrational at all. Of course there is an implicit agreement between author and reader that if the author decides to publish a 3 part series instead of a standalone book, both reader and author are doing the deal based on the solid assumption that the story gets finished. If that really wasn't there, as some people like to claim in defense of an author, these books would get bought in much reduced quantities. On the one hand you can say, you paid for 1 book so that is what you're owed, but that is a narrow view that does not fit with real life. In real life, you buy part 1 of a series bearing in mind that you will also get resolution to the story the same way you would in a "normal" standalone book, you just have to wait for it.

Then presumably you would be fine saying there is also an implicit obligation on the reader to continue buying the subsequent novels in the series, even if they don’t actually like the first? Obligations usually go two ways after all

[Rhom]

20 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Then presumably you would be fine saying there is also an implicit obligation on the reader to continue buying the subsequent novels in the series, even if they don’t actually like the first? Obligations usually go two ways after all

That’s not how business arrangements work.  If the author was paying me to read it, then yes they should expect me to continue.  However, I am the consumer and I fall more in line with @Calibandar

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

That’s not how business arrangements work.  If the author was paying me to read it, then yes they should expect me to continue.  However, I am the consumer and I fall more in line with @Calibandar

Not to mention that the business arrangement already has built-in reciprocation: Steven Erikson can't finish his Kharkanas Trilogy due to the first two books bombing, so now he has to go write something else and people are left without the third book in the series, even those who really enjoyed the first two, and those who were waiting for the trilogy to be finished (a very numerous faction from the sound of it) now don't get to read the trilogy at all. C'est la vie.

Although, of course, logically extrapolating that argument means that the GRRM/Rothfuss school of long waits are justified because people keep buying the books, but there you go.