e1kabong Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Yeah. Show stuff is super off-limits. Lest ye incur the wrath. I will say cryptically that a lot of tinfoil hat theories gained a lot of ground tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Ok, when I was here before, show stuff was regularly discussed. I guess that was before the show caught up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I was trying to find the announcement, but cannot find now...anyways there have been strict orders to keep show discussion in the show threads and book discussions are not to discuss the show. Any rule breaking can cause the thread to be locked. Edited to add: Here it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 8 hours ago, Angrivarius said: I wrote a long text about Asoiaf and Irish mythology two years ago, wanted to post it here back then, but I didn't finish. A lot of it is probably not new, but it might be helpful to compile these related theories. Now I tried to put it back together (its a bit fragmental and missing some clues but anyway). If some of you are interested in disgussing Irish tales, that would be great. I didnt want to post it here, because its quite long and I also think the subject ASoIaF/GRRM and Irish mythology definitely deserves an own thread! We've discussed the links to Celtic folklore [and not just Irish] here before, but the Heresy threads have been running for getting close to five years now. Its a long time since we discussed this stuff and as a lot of it remains valid I reckon it could easily do with a renewed outing, so feel free to post directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 3 hours ago, TheTowerOfJoy said: Ok, when I was here before, show stuff was regularly discussed. I guess that was before the show caught up though. Tightened up last year and then more so for this season. Obliquely though there does seem to be a lot of heresy in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toccs Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Haven't been around for a while but just saw the latest episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angrivarius Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Black Crow said: We've discussed the links to Celtic folklore [and not just Irish] here before, but the Heresy threads have been running for getting close to five years now. Its a long time since we discussed this stuff and as a lot of it remains valid I reckon it could easily do with a renewed outing, so feel free to post directly. There are just to many parallels and already Tolkien drew a lot on these tales, so with Martin who draws on Tolkien as well as on the old tales, it gets increasingly old talish! I think it would be good to have a thread that stays with the subject irish/celtic/norse mythology, because its so much content and very complex. It might be difficult to find the older posts relating to the subject in the Heresy threads, because there is a great variety of issues and ideas. If there was a seperate heresy thread limited to the subject I wouldn't mind to post it there, but we could also just use the new topic I created. If somebody wrote or remembers texts about parallels between ASoIaF and Celtic folklore or even Norse, it would be great to compile it there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 6 hours ago, Feather Crystal said: I was trying to find the announcement, but cannot find now...anyways there have been strict orders to keep show discussion in the show threads and book discussions are not to discuss the show. Any rule breaking can cause the thread to be locked. Edited to add: Here it is. We could really open an Heresy-minded threads in the show forums, if we feel it is needed, at least for some of the episodes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arry'sFleas Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 21 hours ago, Black Crow said: A much overlooked source and for some reason whenever I think of Robert d'Artois I can't help seeing Jaime Lannister Ah, Robert d'Artois, a great character, in many ways larger than life, forever chasing his stolen heritage; I see some of king Robert's bravado and lifestyle in him. But yes, perhaps Jaimie L. also, as he is also chasing a life that was denied him. Will he eventually 'emigrate' to the North to find it? Still as much as the practice of consanguine marriages has been written in the saga with the Targaryens and Lannisters, i just cannot see it for Jon and one of his cousins; Jon's already had his love story (just like Dany and Tyrion btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessManOf TheShire Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 7 hours ago, TheTowerOfJoy said: So are the show scenes fair game? The scene with the CotF creating the White Walkers was pretty compelling. But they're clearly NOT in control of them anymore. Comes here trying to avoid show spoilers ;0) Can't watch for another 9ish hours so came for my Herecey fix instead. I've managed to avoid the rest of your post. Thankfully I'm not too precious, but might be an idea to remove your post lest ye fall foul of the Great Admins in the Sky, or other forumites who may be a little more annoyed. /Not too bothered but just saying :0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 4 hours ago, Black Crow said: Tightened up last year and then more so for this season. Obliquely though there does seem to be a lot of heresy in there. Yes, and I wanted to congratulate you on the biggie, and I think you know what I mean. WW & CotF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said: Yes, and I wanted to congratulate you on the biggie, and I think you know what I mean. Reveal hidden contents WW & CotF Thank you Ma'am. We may not, alas, be allowed to discuss the show, but it does indeed confirm an awful lot of the "big" stuff we have sweated on Heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maglor78 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Long time mostly lurker here would very much like a sibling heresy thread within the show subgroups to discuss the consequences of recent episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Stark Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, Maglor78 said: Long time mostly lurker here would very much like a sibling heresy thread within the show subgroups to discuss the consequences of recent episodes. I agree we need something. This forum says not to discuss the show. The show forum participants seems to prefer to not discuss the books too much. We need a forum where it is all open for discussion. While I get there are some people trying to not watch the show, and stick purely to the books, it does feel a bit artificial at this point to pretend that a lot of ideas and theories moving forward will not be biased by things we see on the show. I get that details (some big and many small) will differ in the books vs. the show, but I think a lot of the major themes will stay close to what George tells D&D. Mods, please go easy on me. I'm just saying a place to discuss books and show would be a good idea at this point. Other than that, I must say the Heresy threads are pretty great. As someone who has bounced on and off this site for a while now, some of the early Heresy threads seemed to contain some pretty crazy ideas, but it seems like over time, the posters here do a good job of swallowing their egos and refining theories as the brainstorming continues, to where there are a lot of good thoughts being bounced around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew. Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Well, that rule is dumb, and the longer it takes GRRM to release WoW, the more ridiculous it becomes to dance around certain discussions in this thread, as though we don't already know (roughly) what's happening. Are we going to have put "maybe" and "perhaps" qualifiers in front of discussions that are essentially show spoilers, to maintain appearances? Shouldn't it suffice to put, say, "SHOW SPOILERS" in the thread title, and then use the spoiler tags in-thread, and just assume that people who care that much about avoiding information can operate with a basic degree of intelligence? Since my choice is to receive some sort of punishment that prevents me from discussing what I want to discuss, or not discussing what I want to discuss to avoid...being prevented from discussing what I want to discuss, I suppose I'll just post my thoughts about last night's episode and see what happens. Spoiler Kind of a mixed bag in terms of what we learned, as it's great to finally get some big insight into the Others; OTOH, this all but confirms theories that greensight can be used to at least partially influence the past, and I'm really not thrilled about that development. Anyway- What we saw with the Walkers is interesting, but it leaves me in almost exactly the same position with them that I've been in this thread for ages: That the CotF make a great deal of sense for the original uprising of the Others, but make much less sense for the current uprising, which seems to be the presentation of the show. Thus, I'm left asking the exact same questions I've been asking, even when the question of their origins was more nebulous. Why are they back now? What is their ultimate motive? Stray observations: -I'm almost certain that the fellow we see 'turned' in the vision is the same actor that is playing the Night's King this season; this suggests that both he, and Leaf, are incredibly ancient within the show's canon. -The overhead shot of the standing stones around the weirwood are reminiscent of the patterns the WWs create in the snow with dead bodies. It also reminds me of Dany's pyre to wake the dragons from stone. -The Other the CotF create was made through a different ritual than the present batch of WWs, but that might just be because they thought depicting that process with Craster's sons would be too gratuitous. OTOH, maybe this is what distinguishes their leader(s), and what we saw was the process by which a King of Winter is created. -The weirwood in the second half of the vision is no longer bone white, but has gone dark brown, or even black. Maybe an aesthetic oversight on the show's part, or maybe the frozen heart tree is the "heart of winter," as someone suggested on the prior page. -So as to not be totally lost in the shuffle of everything else that happened, the notion that the voice Varys heard speaking is real, and has a name is...interesting, maybe? I don't know where that's leading, but Dany in the show increasingly looks like some sort of Fire Side version of whatever the Night's King is. Edit, additions: So, if the guy we see in the ritual is the NK, that'd actually lend credence to Voice's theory that the NK is Brandon the Builder. Indeed, what is unfolding on the show seems to be an amalgam of things that Black Crow and Voice have suggested. I mean, it's clearly not deep winter when that ritual is unfolding, so might we presume that he used his power to raise the Wall and protect the Haunted Forest - one of the last pristine deep forests left to the CotF - before he turned against them? Is the 'Night's Queen' still important to his motives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 5 hours ago, Black Crow said: Thank you Ma'am. We may not, alas, be allowed to discuss the show, but it does indeed confirm an awful lot of the "big" stuff we have sweated on Heresy. Well done,main man.It looks like you hit the nail on the head.And it stands as a Heresy cornerstone that we believed the Others were "created" rather than natural entities.My take was that it was done at Greenseer level,but the show says no,so there we go.The books may differ. But well done to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 I fear that the last few posts have been sailing a touch close to the wind, but it is frustrating so in response to publick demand I'll try opening a branch office across on the show page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew. Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 The fact that it might even be necessary to do a Heresy 2.0: Heresy Abroad is for the birds!!! I'd seriously love to know whether or not the expectation going forward is that, within this thread, we must now propose and discuss theories about stuff like the Others without acknowledging information that exists only in Season 6 of the show. I apologize in advance for my language, but there's just no way around it: this situation is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Rules are rules I'm afraid, even it seems a bit pointless - I can't help thinking what will happen if R+L=J is ever confirmed and the internet explodes. In the meantime the branch office experiment is up and running on the 05 The Door page. See how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTowerOfJoy Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 My mistake I spoiler tagged it out. It wasn't intentional as I said, when I posted here before that was not a no-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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