Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I always thought the Varys/Tyrek theory was interesting but, if it were to happen, far off in the future. There's simply too many heirs in the way. But a look at the Lannister inheritance as of the start of TWOW shows otherwise: quietly, and without me noticing, that list has been winnowed pretty good - and it looks set to winnow even further. Check it out: Tywin - dead Jaime - Kingsguard Tyrion - attainted Cersei Joffrey - dead Tommen - King Myrcella Kevan - dead Lancel - Warrior's Sons Willem - dead Martyn Janei Tygett - dead Tyrek - missing, presumed dead Gerion - missing, presumed dead Genna Cleos Frey - dead Tywin Frey Willem Frey Lyonel Frey Tion Frey - dead "Red" Walder Frey Jason Lannister - dead Stafford Lannister - dead Daven Lannister Cerenna Lannister Myielle Lannister Jason Lannister's unnamed second son Jason Lannister's unnamed third son Damon Lannister* - possibly dead Damion Lannister Lucion Lannister Lanna Lannister Joanna Lannister - dead Jason Lannister's unnamed second daughter Jason Lannister's unnamed third daughter Some other fucker *It's at this point that the order of succession gets a bit squiffy - does the son from Jason's second marriage take precedence over the daughters from his first marriage? I've guessed yes. Tyrek has gone from 14th at the time of his disappearance to 5th by the start of TWOW. Cersei Myrcella Martyn Janei Tyrek - missing, presumed dead Of those five, two are prophesied to die, and could very well die quite soon - or Cersei could find herself an attained criminal. That would leave Martyn and Janei, a boy and a baby - surely Varys is capable of popping their clogs? And then voila, suddenly appears Tyrek, the new Lord of Casterly Rock. Point being, when 10 people had to die, it seemed a little far-fetched; but when it's just 2 children in the way, it's all too plausible. But why stop there? Cersei Myrcella Martyn Janei Tyrek - missing, presumed dead Genna Tywin Frey Willem Frey Lyonel Frey "Red" Walder Frey Daven Lannister Cerenna Lannister Myielle Lannister Jason Lannister's unnamed second son Jason Lannister's unnamed third son Damon Lannister - possibly dead Damion Lannister Lucion Lannister Lanna Lannister Jason Lannister's unnamed second daughter Jason Lannister's unnamed third daughter Some other fucker I've bolded the most serious potential claimants. The same path that puts Tyrek in the Rock is one step away from putting Genna Lannister there, and being already married to Emmon Frey and therefore technically the Lady of Riverrun might not sate her ambition. Would she kill Tyrek if he returns? I don't know, but she'd certainly have motive to question his authenticity. Damion Lannister I consider an outside chance for outright inheritance, but being the present Castellan might put him in a position to aid some of the other candidates. Daven Lannister is the most interesting, though, because while it looks as though he's stuck behind Genna and her offspring, it just so happens that Genna's family will be at Riverrun for a wedding soon - and some have theorised that the Brotherhood Without Banners just might crash the party. Now, Daven will be there also - but if he can avoid a noose, he may find himself suddenly much better placed for Casterly Rock. Hell, he might even be able to take advantage of the confusion to, ah, help matters along a little. He didn't seem like the type of bastard to do that, but when a great lordship is on the line, who knows? Bottom line, it looks like the Lannister inheritance could get a whole lot more interesting in the books to come. (I'm sure other people will have beaten me to this punch, but the search blob seems to have disappeared. And anyway, for once I clocked something by myself, I wanted to crow a little.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Varys Orchestrated the Kidnapping of Tyrek to Use Him against House Lannister when the Time Was Right for Aegon to Assert His Claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I dont think that any Lannister vassal would take order from a Frey. Genna should be outside the inheritance...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Tommen being King does not remove him from the line of succession for Casterly Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 15 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Varys Orchestrated the Kidnapping of Tyrek to Use Him against House Lannister when the Time Was Right for Aegon to Assert His Claim. Thanks - just so it's clear, I don't mean to suggest that I thought up the whole idea of Varys kidnapping Tyrek, I'm not that close a reader. 9 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said: I dont think that any Lannister vassal would take order from a Frey. Genna should be outside the inheritance...... I don't know, Genna is Tywin's sister and seemed pretty tough when she was talking to Jaime. As long as she had some other Lannisters on side - Jaime, say, or Damion, the present Castellan - and as long as everybody understood that Emmon wasn't the one wearing the pants in that relationship, I think she'd be fine. 8 hours ago, GallowsKnight said: Tommen being King does not remove him from the line of succession for Casterly Rock. Doesn't it? Renly was Lord of Storm's End rather than Robert, and the Targayren kings generally weren't also the Lord of Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 23 minutes ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said: Doesn't it? Renly was Lord of Storm's End rather than Robert, and the Targayren kings generally weren't also the Lord of Dragonstone. Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End - GRRM in a SSM "Storm's End is [Tommen's] by rights, since Lord Renly left no heir and Lord Stannis is attainted. In time Casterly Rock will pass to the boy as well through his lady mother. He will be as great a lord as any in the realm" - Arriane Feast for Crows It appears to be tradition for a lord or King not to hold more than one seat, rather giving it to a son, but it isn't a mandatory rule. It looks like Tommen gets first pass at Casterly Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 10 minutes ago, GallowsKnight said: Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End - GRRM in a SSM "Storm's End is [Tommen's] by rights, since Lord Renly left no heir and Lord Stannis is attainted. In time Casterly Rock will pass to the boy as well through his lady mother. He will be as great a lord as any in the realm" - Arriane Feast for Crows It appears to be tradition for a lord or King not to hold more than one seat, rather giving it to a son, but it isn't a mandatory rule. It looks like Tommen gets first pass at Casterly Rock. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 King Tommen the Lord of Everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 4 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said: Thanks - just so it's clear, I don't mean to suggest that I thought up the whole idea of Varys kidnapping Tyrek, I'm not that close a reader. Neither did I. But it seems very likely that he did. The question becomes why. I agree there were too many lions ahead of him, so I don't think it was to shape a stooge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 On 21.05.2016 at 7:05 PM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said: The same path that puts Tyrek in the Rock is one step away from putting Genna Lannister there, and being already married to Emmon Frey and therefore technically the Lady of Riverrun might not sate her ambition. Would she kill Tyrek if he returns? I don't think so, Jaime's chapter has made it very clear she is no Cersei. I don't really see why Varys or anyone would endorse Tyrek. Cersei/whoever needs to die to make a way for him can die all the same and without them the Lannisters have no connection to the Crown and none of them seems as ambitious as Tywin. I'm not sure if they would that much trouble - or if Tyrek actually makes a good puppet. He disappered when he was around 14, he was older than Joffrey, not some infant some stranger can easily mold into their preferred heir figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 19 hours ago, GallowsKnight said: Tommen being King does not remove him from the line of succession for Casterly Rock. He'd probably give it to the next in line though. He cannot hope to rule both the Westerlands and the rest of the kingdom efficiently at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 29 minutes ago, John Doe said: He'd probably give it to the next in line though. He cannot hope to rule both the Westerlands and the rest of the kingdom efficiently at the same time. Tywin and Jon Arryn did and I think in better circumstances Ned would have been able to as well. If he lived (sadly we all know he is not going to) he could have appointed a competent Castellan to rule for him until he has sons of his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 24 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said: Tywin and Jon Arryn did and I think in better circumstances Ned would have been able to as well. If he lived (sadly we all know he is not going to) he could have appointed a competent Castellan to rule for him until he has sons of his own. I think this is because they all had capable substitutes, Tywin had relatives there, Jon Arryn had Nestor Royce, and both of them were accomplished and had the right family name. I'm not sure if a Baratheon kid would have the same authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 The events that will transpire in the capital will definitely destroy whatever control Lannisters and Tyrells have across the realm. I expect Aegon and his camp to rally at least Stormlands, Dorne and Reach to his side, because he already took Storm's End, about to possibly marry Arianne and save Oldtown from ironborn (not to mention destroying Tyrell troops descending on him at Storm's End). Tyrells are going down hard next book (I expect Margaery, Garlan, Mace, Olenna and Willas all die one way or another, except Loras who will join Daenerys and Tyrion when they arrive), and Cersei and Tommen are not going to be such popular figures in the realm, especially after Aegon's victories. I expect High Sparrow and his Faith Militant to Westerlands lords would like to join a winning cause, just like any other lord, so they will not give too much fuck about line of succession if Aegon and his camp proposes Tyrek as their Warden of the West and Lord of Casterly Rock. He is a Lannister in name and blood, that is all that matters. Even part of Riverlands houses will likely bend the knee to Aegon (like House Vance of Atranta and House Darry if Tristan is indeed a Darry bastard and legitimized for his service, like many officers in Golden Company). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.