Who is Oswell Kettleblack?

[Pile-O-Starks]

In the appendix to AFFC and ADWD, Oswell Kettleblack is listed this way:

—OSWELL, a grizzled man-at-arms in Lord Petyr’s service, sometimes called KETTLEBLACK,

The only people who also get the "sometimes called" language are LSH (sometimes called Mother's Mercy) and Robert Arryn (sometimes called Sweetrobin). This, to me, is a pretty clear sign that his real name is not Kettleblack.

So who is he, really? I think the simplest answer is Oswell Whent, but obviously we are to think he died at ToJ. GRRM doesn't a say that outright during Ned's fever dream, but it's strongly implied. Dontos' reaction when he sees him is also telling.

Who else could he be, and why? He's somebody, I'm sure.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

How is Whent the simplest answer? Surely if Whent was still alive and went to the trouble of changing his last name he would also change his first name.

Kettleblack has three adult sons, all of whom seem to have been born before the Tower of Joy. If he was trying to stay incognito why would he have his bastards adopt his name?

All three Kettleblack brothers seem fairly ambitious, meanwhile Lady Whent is without heirs and needs support in keeping one of the richest and most prestigious settlements in the Riverlands. Why would they not live with their aunt? Use their powerful relative to advance their position?

 

 

[Faereth]

Yet another mystery to unravel, but goodness knows if we'll ever get the answer!

I'm not sure he's a Whent, but the mysterious appearance of three of his sons at such a convenient time in kings landing and his tie with Littlefinger certainly makes him very interesting for the little we know about him. 

How is he described? Does me match the description of any character mentioned from pre Tower of Joy? 

[Bironic]

43 minutes ago, Pile-O-Starks said:

In the appendix to AFFC and ADWD, Oswell Kettleblack is listed this way:

—OSWELL, a grizzled man-at-arms in Lord Petyr’s service, sometimes called KETTLEBLACK,

The only people who also get the "sometimes called" language are LSH (sometimes called Mother's Mercy) and Robert Arryn (sometimes called Sweetrobin). This, to me, is a pretty clear sign that his real name is not Kettleblack.

So who is he, really? I think the simplest answer is Oswell Whent, but obviously we are to think he died at ToJ. GRRM doesn't a say that outright during Ned's fever dream, but it's strongly implied. Dontos' reaction when he sees him is also telling.

Who else could he be, and why? He's somebody, I'm sure.

OMG

You know what this implies? It means that Lady Stoneheart isn't really the Mother's Mercy and Robert Arryn isn't Sweetrobin! There's a clear pattern here. l

But who is Robert Arryn if he isn't Sweetrobin?

I think he's actually Robert Baratheon who didn't die during the Boars hunt, but actually went to the place where he lived the best days in his life, under the disguise of Robert Arryn. He didn't change his first name, because he always was a lazy guy...

GET HYPE

/irony off

Oswell is called Kettleblack, because it's his family name. Simple as that.

[Tonberry]

No need to be rude.

This is an interesting find. I, too, think it's probably just an oddity in GRRM's phrasing and not a clever signal that he's more than he seems. But I wouldn't rule anything out!

[Buried Treasure]

He's a retainer, in service to one of the smallest of minor lordships, which is to say he is a peasant. Kettleblack is not his legal name as the smallfolk by definition do not belong to a House and his home is small place where a single name would usually be sufficient to identify him, but whenever he is called by another name it is Kettleblack.

[AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy]

26 minutes ago, Bironic said:

OMG

You know what this implies? It means that Lady Stoneheart isn't really the Mother's Mercy and Robert Arryn isn't Sweetrobin! There's a clear pattern here. l

But who is Robert Arryn if he isn't Sweetrobin?

I think he's actually Robert Baratheon who didn't die during the Boars hunt, but actually went to the place where he lived the best days in his life, under the disguise of Robert Arryn. He didn't change his first name, because he always was a lazy guy...

GET HYPE

That escalated quickly...

And I just thought of him to have been the first one of a surname-less family he came from in the fingers to reach knighthood. He had to choose a sigil and choose a black kettle for the fear it would strike in his enemies. And since he didn't have a last name just went with that

[Seams]

Could be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

3 hours ago, Faereth said:

Yet another mystery to unravel, but goodness knows if we'll ever get the answer!

I'm not sure he's a Whent, but the mysterious appearance of three of his sons at such a convenient time in kings landing and his tie with Littlefinger certainly makes him very interesting for the little we know about him. 

How is he described? Does me match the description of any character mentioned from pre Tower of Joy? 

 

Well....... To the last part of you'r quote the answer is yes however when i say it everyone will laugh at me lol.

The Answer is the Kettleblacks resemble the King Robert Baratheon 

6'6" tall, course black chect hair

I will say that I had been working on a theory about the Kettleblacks before I got busy with work, I feel the Kettleblacks could be the kin of the Baratheon's or House Strong

[JonCon's Red Beard]

8 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

How is Whent the simplest answer? Surely if Whent was still alive and went to the trouble of changing his last name he would also change his first name.

 

Not that I disagree with you, but in ASOIAF, people go into hiding using the most obvious names. Griff, Arstan, Abel... if Kettleblack was indeed Whent, he would probably be called WELLOS or some absurdly obvious shit.

 

[Winter Rose Crown]

1 hour ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

Not that I disagree with you, but in ASOIAF, people go into hiding using the most obvious names. Griff, Arstan, Abel... if Kettleblack was indeed Whent, he would probably be called WELLOS or some absurdly obvious shit.

 

Snort.

Wellos 4 king 

[Faereth]

8 hours ago, Daemon Blackfyre IV said:

 

Well....... To the last part of you'r quote the answer is yes however when i say it everyone will laugh at me lol.

The Answer is the Kettleblacks resemble the King Robert Baratheon 

6'6" tall, course black chect hair

I will say that I had been working on a theory about the Kettleblacks before I got busy with work, I feel the Kettleblacks could be the kin of the Baratheon's or House Strong

ha I don't know if people will laugh. The Baratheons were who I thought of most when the Kettleblacks are described. I hope you get more of a chance to work on your theory.

What I'd like to know is more of their back story - where did they get trained in arms? are they more on line with the likes of Bronn? where exactly in Westeros do they come from? We know surprisingly little given the influence they have in the plot at KL. 

[Dofs]

No, the simplest answer is that he is Oswell, a peasant who doesn't have a family name and whos nickname is Kettleblack, after which his sons took their surname.

[Pile-O-Starks]

14 hours ago, Bironic said:

OMG

You know what this implies? It means that Lady Stoneheart isn't really the Mother's Mercy and Robert Arryn isn't Sweetrobin! There's a clear pattern here. l

But who is Robert Arryn if he isn't Sweetrobin?

I think he's actually Robert Baratheon who didn't die during the Boars hunt, but actually went to the place where he lived the best days in his life, under the disguise of Robert Arryn. He didn't change his first name, because he always was a lazy guy...

GET HYPE

/irony off

Oswell is called Kettleblack, because it's his family name. Simple as that.

First off, I don't think you know what "irony" means. What you're doing (poorly) is sarcasm. Irony would be something like, I don't know, incorrectly using the word irony to describe something as irony. So good job there!

Secondly, Robert's name obviously is not Sweetrobin. It is a nickname. My point is that this indicates that Kettleblack is a nickname of sorts, as well. You understood my point. Don't distort it. It makes you look like an imbecile.

no need to respond to the rest of your inane post.

[Pile-O-Starks]

I think a key to this whole thing is that the character is never mentioned prior to Sansa's rescue, and when Dontos sees him, he recognizes him immediately: "Oswell?" He's clearly surprised to see him there.

Why does Dontos know him? Why is he apparently surprised to see him?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

It's obvious that OKettleblack is Jaqen who is Euron who is Daario who is Syrio who is Benjen who is a Targ who is a secret Stark who is Kindly man who is Lemore who is Jon Snow's mother.

[The Snow Bear]

And another thread, that confirmes, that we desperately need TWOW to come 

8 hours ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

Not that I disagree with you, but in ASOIAF, people go into hiding using the most obvious names. Griff, Arstan, Abel... if Kettleblack was indeed Whent, he would probably be called WELLOS or some absurdly obvious shit.

 

I'd call that unfair. 
JonCon choose a name he connected with and so made it easy to guess who he was, but Barristan never lied about his name, he just got misunderstood and no one nows the storry of Bael or would be intrested in a singer enough to question his name. 

[YOVMO]

17 hours ago, Pile-O-Starks said:

In the appendix to AFFC and ADWD, Oswell Kettleblack is listed this way:

—OSWELL, a grizzled man-at-arms in Lord Petyr’s service, sometimes called KETTLEBLACK,

The only people who also get the "sometimes called" language are LSH (sometimes called Mother's Mercy) and Robert Arryn (sometimes called Sweetrobin). This, to me, is a pretty clear sign that his real name is not Kettleblack.

So who is he, really? I think the simplest answer is Oswell Whent, but obviously we are to think he died at ToJ. GRRM doesn't a say that outright during Ned's fever dream, but it's strongly implied. Dontos' reaction when he sees him is also telling.

Who else could he be, and why? He's somebody, I'm sure.

I believe that he is a faceless man and one of the secret servants that Arya sees. He is already connected to Braavos as he is the one who hires Penny and Oppo for Joffery's wedding when he is at the palace of the sealord. I believe he is one of the secret servants that Arya sees at the house of black and white. Now, whether he is wearing the face of a knight called Oswell Kettleblack or if it is something else I do not know.

I don't buy him being Whent. Your reasoning here is sound, but I just don't see how it would do anything for us. I think if any kg survived the ToJ it was probably Arthur Dayne because that plus the lemon tree issues would go to explain and connect a bunch of bits of plot which otherwise would seem impossible. If Whent is alive and posing as Kettleblack it would seem to make very little sense in terms of his motivation and really add nothing to the story.

[Pile-O-Starks]

Basically, here's what it boils down to:

There is something funny going on at ToJ (obviously) when Ned remembers that "They had found him still holding her body..." Pretty clear that there is at least one more person (besides Howland Reed) there. This is well-trodden ground; I am not pretending to be the first to say this. Somebody else was there (and alive) after the fight, though.

So, if somebody else besides Howland survived the battle, it has to be a Kingsguard because Eddard explicitly states that of the seven, only two lived to ride away, himself and Howland. Yes, he built 8 cairns, but that could be (a) deception if he and one or more members of the three reached an agreement or (b) a cairn for somebody else, perhaps an infant who did not survive childbirth (R+L=J+???).

Anyway, I would argue that Martin leaves it open that one or more members of the KG survived the battle. Why not Oswell Whent?

From a plot standpoint, if Oswell K is Oswell W, that means that LF could know what happened at ToJ and could know that R+L=J. Which is information LF can use. Either he knows he needs to dispose of Jon if he himself wants to be king, or he can leverage the information at an opportune time. Also, it means that there is somebody else alive that can verify that R+L=J. From GRRM's standpoint, it makes the whole "why would anybody believe R+L=J?" question easier to answer.

As to Oswell's motivations, I won't begin to guess, but those can all be explained after the reveal.

Anyway, I recognize that this probably isn't the case. It's just fun speculation, but I do think that Oswell Kettleblack is more than he appears.

[Bironic]

3 hours ago, Pile-O-Starks said:

Basically, here's what it boils down to:

There is something funny going on at ToJ (obviously) when Ned remembers that "They had found him still holding her body..." Pretty clear that there is at least one more person (besides Howland Reed) there. This is well-trodden ground; I am not pretending to be the first to say this. Somebody else was there (and alive) after the fight, though.

So, if somebody else besides Howland survived the battle, it has to be a Kingsguard because Eddard explicitly states that of the seven, only two lived to ride away, himself and Howland. Yes, he built 8 cairns, but that could be (a) deception if he and one or more members of the three reached an agreement or (b) a cairn for somebody else, perhaps an infant who did not survive childbirth (R+L=J+???).

Anyway, I would argue that Martin leaves it open that one or more members of the KG survived the battle. Why not Oswell Whent?

From a plot standpoint, if Oswell K is Oswell W, that means that LF could know what happened at ToJ and could know that R+L=J. Which is information LF can use. Either he knows he needs to dispose of Jon if he himself wants to be king, or he can leverage the information at an opportune time. Also, it means that there is somebody else alive that can verify that R+L=J. From GRRM's standpoint, it makes the whole "why would anybody believe R+L=J?" question easier to answer.

As to Oswell's motivations, I won't begin to guess, but those can all be explained after the reveal.

Anyway, I recognize that this probably isn't the case. It's just fun speculation, but I do think that Oswell Kettleblack is more than he appears.

Well since most people believe that Lyanna was close to giving birth, I assume the most logical person to be there asisde from Howland/Eddard/Jon and Lyanna is some kind of midwife/wetnurse/healer/maester. Maybe the ominous "Wylla" (edric Daynes milkmother). So they found him: Howland & Wylla (or some other midwife...). It doesn't have to be a KG.

While it isn't impossible that a KG survived the battle, although given the odds I call it unrealistic. Why should Eddard reach an agreement with them? And why oswell whent? Arthur Dayne and Gerold hightower were better fighters, so they would have had better chances of survival, also if those two would have wanted to hide they were pretty close to their homelands, while Whent was miles away from the region he knew best(the Riverlands). Also why should Oswell go to LF, why should he go to the Vale? He is a riverlander after all.

IDK who knows about R+L=J, most likely HR, but there are other options, in the show Bloodraven/Bran know it, Benjen or Varys might know it, Wylla or the Daynes might know it. I think all of these are more likely to know it than Wellos Kettlewhent.

As far as fun speculation goes, I see the speculation part of it, but I'm leaning out the window you don't see the fun part in it. Like other posters have implied, this forum had its share of "XY is actually posing as someone else" theories.

And there is really no need to call other people names, just when they don't agree with you.