The Republic of Littlefinger Theory

[Eamonn the Dragonknight]

This theory is great. Ive always had a feeling that Littlefingers big final reveal will be that he was working for the betterment of all the lowerclass of Westeros...

It would parallel Varys perfectly; he spends 3 books telling us he only cares about the realm for it then to be revealed that he is just supporting another king.

It would be perfect is Littlefinger, who has been telling us for the last 5 book that he only cares about himself, for it to be relealed that he has the most altruistic motivations of any of our characters.

Ned might have been honourable, but he still believed in the Feudal hierarchy. LF is the only one the represents true justice.

[Eamonn the Dragonknight]

I also wonder if we will get more of the story of Harren the Black...

Clearly Harren had some grand plan for Harrenhal, (it seems too much of a coincidence that Aegon landed the day the last stone was layed). Maybe their is some unfulfilled potential left in Harrenhal, explaining LFs interest in the place.

Its worth noting that, while Harren the Black has a terrible reputation, our author goes out of his way to show how subjective and poiltically motivated these smear campaigns often are. Harren was tolerent of other cuture (aloowing foreign religions into the Iron Islands) and the Ironmen culture was formerly very democratic and is still very egalitarian.

Its probably a stretch, but i wonder if Harren will be revealed as a "good guy" and Littlefinger will attempt to finish this work

[Lord Wraith]

I still think this is an issue worthy of further discussion. I oft wonder what happened to Baelish between his recovery from the duel and taking the post at Gulltown. I always figured he traveled to Braavos and realized how ass backwards Westeros feudalism is.

[Prof. Cecily]

2 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

I still think this is an issue worthy of further discussion. I oft wonder what happened to Baelish between his recovery from the duel and taking the post at Gulltown. I always figured he traveled to Braavos and realized how ass backwards Westeros feudalism is.

That sounds about right to me, too.

Why, then, would he return to Westeros to be a tax collector in Gulltown?

Hmmm.

[Lord Wraith]

1 minute ago, Prof. Cecily said:

That sounds about right to me, too.

Why, then, would he return to Westeros to be a tax collector in Gulltown?

Hmmm.

Well I speculate that he spent some time with either the Iron Bank or Faceless Men. His knowledge of fiances and poison beyond what is commonly know in Westeros speaks to one of these two institutions.

I guess he returned when Lysa offered to get his a job in order to start rising the chain in Westeros. He is still a Lord even if his lands and castle are crap. Three years in Gulltown, then Jon Arryn brings him to King's Landing. Two/three years later he is Master of Coin, the right hand man of the Hand and one of the most powerful men in the realm. Granted most people don't realize this. He just counts coppers after all.

[ravenous reader]

The only reason I didn't vote for you--  Baelish 'loves' Sansa; please amend...

[Prof. Cecily]

8 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said:

Well I speculate that he spent some time with either the Iron Bank or Faceless Men. His knowledge of fiances and poison beyond what is commonly know in Westeros speaks to one of these two institutions.

I guess he returned when Lysa offered to get his a job in order to start rising the chain in Westeros. He is still a Lord even if his lands and castle are crap. Three years in Gulltown, then Jon Arryn brings him to King's Landing. Two/three years later he is Master of Coin, the right hand man of the Hand and one of the most powerful men in the realm. Granted most people don't realize this. He just counts coppers after all.

Poisons.

Well, yes, Lysa claims he gave her the poison that finished off her unhappy marriage.

I wonder if she mayhaps received the poison and instructions via messenger...

Also, your mention of finances and poisons reminds me that there is a place in Westeros where people can learn about these two subjects- the Citadel. I'm almost surprised Baelish didn't try for a Maester's chain. 

The thing that makes me wonder about a connection between IB and Baelish is the obvious embezzlement Tyrion  and Jaime 'uncover'. When Baelish gave Tyrion the accounting books, I wonder if he gave Tyrion set "A" or set "B". Or set "C".

 

I wonder about this because I have difficulty believing   the IB wouldn't be monitoring the IT finances closely. There's a lot of money in play in those loans, isn't there.  I can't imagine the IB would react well to having resources that should be going their way siphoned off by Baelish. Unless...

As for the inflated employment in the dungeons. I've just finished rereading that deeply moving chapter of AGOT, Eddard XV, when Varys visits Ned in his cell. 

Varys claims to love peace and work for the good of the realm, yet he must have known about the embezzlement scheme going on with the wages drawn to non-existent gaolers, since he himself works as a gaoler in his spare time.

There are many elements in the stories of Baelish that don't seem to fit together for me.

Until GRRM publishes the finishing books of this absorbing (all too absorbing!) saga, of course.

[SeaWitch]

37 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said:

Well I speculate that he spent some time with either the Iron Bank or Faceless Men. His knowledge of fiances and poison beyond what is commonly know in Westeros speaks to one of these two institutions.

I guess he returned when Lysa offered to get his a job in order to start rising the chain in Westeros. He is still a Lord even if his lands and castle are crap. Three years in Gulltown, then Jon Arryn brings him to King's Landing. Two/three years later he is Master of Coin, the right hand man of the Hand and one of the most powerful men in the realm. Granted most people don't realize this. He just counts coppers after all.

I wonder if it was anything that organised, or if he just kicked around with a bunch of bravos, raising hell.  I have a theory that the merchant prince's daughter was not a complete fiction, though without the death and daughter bit, he learned finance somewhere.  Getting involved with the daughter of a mentor is kind of his M.O. Maybe this time he cut and ran because it was all getting too familiar.

He might not even have gone to Braavos. Gulltown is large enough, and has a close enough trading partnership that I expect it has a large Braavosi community.  Young, angry Petyr drinking, fighting and gambling his way through a harbour underworld until he gets a decent job offer from Jon Arryn seems feasible to me. (But I've seen  young AG play too many deranged career criminals, I have  issues.)

[Lord Wraith]

On 5/20/2017 at 3:08 AM, Prof. Cecily said:

Poisons.

Well, yes, Lysa claims he gave her the poison that finished off her unhappy marriage.

I wonder if she mayhaps received the poison and instructions via messenger...

Also, your mention of finances and poisons reminds me that there is a place in Westeros where people can learn about these two subjects- the Citadel. I'm almost surprised Baelish didn't try for a Maester's chain. 

The thing that makes me wonder about a connection between IB and Baelish is the obvious embezzlement Tyrion  and Jaime 'uncover'. When Baelish gave Tyrion the accounting books, I wonder if he gave Tyrion set "A" or set "B". Or set "C".

 

I wonder about this because I have difficulty believing   the IB wouldn't be monitoring the IT finances closely. There's a lot of money in play in those loans, isn't there.  I can't imagine the IB would react well to having resources that should be going their way siphoned off by Baelish. Unless...

As for the inflated employment in the dungeons. I've just finished rereading that deeply moving chapter of AGOT, Eddard XV, when Varys visits Ned in his cell. 

Varys claims to love peace and work for the good of the realm, yet he must have known about the embezzlement scheme going on with the wages drawn to non-existent gaolers, since he himself works as a gaoler in his spare time.

There are many elements in the stories of Baelish that don't seem to fit together for me.

Until GRRM publishes the finishing books of this absorbing (all too absorbing!) saga, of course.

Baelish certainly has the brains for the Citadel but we have gotten no hints that he ever attended the Citadel. It seems plenty of clever Lords have done training there without becoming a Maester. Also adding Baelish to the Maester Conspiracy is certain crackpot for thought.

Every time the IB comes to discuss money they are sent to Baelish. Either he is working with them or pulling a fast one on them...

Varys is full of shit. Aegon is the goal not the realm, to the mention all Varys did to undermine the Targaryen regime.

I keep wondering if Baelish and Varys are pulling one of the greatest two man cons in literature. There is a good couple essays on it at the Tower of the Hand.

On 5/20/2017 at 3:10 AM, SeaWitch said:

I wonder if it was anything that organised, or if he just kicked around with a bunch of bravos, raising hell.  I have a theory that the merchant prince's daughter was not a complete fiction, though without the death and daughter bit, he learned finance somewhere.  Getting involved with the daughter of a mentor is kind of his M.O. Maybe this time he cut and ran because it was all getting too familiar.

He might not even have gone to Braavos. Gulltown is large enough, and has a close enough trading partnership that I expect it has a large Braavosi community.  Young, angry Petyr drinking, fighting and gambling his way through a harbour underworld until he gets a decent job offer from Jon Arryn seems feasible to me. (But I've seen  young AG play too many deranged career criminals, I have  issues.)

Bravo Baelish... well he had to learn that knife throwing from somewhere as well. Interesting notion on the merchants daughter. Baelish goes to Braavos for a few years, gets married and wife dies in childbirth so he heads back to Westeros.

[SeaWitch]

1 minute ago, Lord Wraith said:

 

Bravo Baelish... well he had to learn that knife throwing from somewhere as well. Interesting notion on the merchants daughter. Baelish goes to Braavos for a few years, gets married and wife dies in childbirth so he heads back to Westeros.

I think it more likely he ran away from a living woman. If only because I like the idea of him escaping and sulking back to Braavos, and being given merry hell for disappearing on her.  Childbed mortality as backstory bothers me (even though I'm a historian, and know the stats) - it makes it all about the man, creating a disposable life.

I really want to see him use a blade on screen.  I honestly think someone tangling with him at close quarters would get a very nasty and terminal shock.

With the IB, the debt etc belongs to the Crown, not his personal concern.  They deal with the office, not the man.  I suspect his own accounts to be scrupulous.

[Lord Wraith]

7 minutes ago, SeaWitch said:

I think it more likely he ran away from a living woman. If only because I like the idea of him escaping and sulking back to Braavos, and being given merry hell for disappearing on her.  Childbed mortality as backstory bothers me (even though I'm a historian, and know the stats) - it makes it all about the man, creating a disposable life.

I really want to see him use a blade on screen.  I honestly think someone tangling with him at close quarters would get a very nasty and terminal shock.

With the IB, the debt etc belongs to the Crown, not his personal concern.  They deal with the office, not the man.  I suspect his own accounts to be scrupulous.

Indeed the stats are really sad but in some cases I feel it is suspect, especially with Aerys and Rhaella. I wonder if Pycelle let some kids die so Tywin could have Rhaegar marry Cersei? Crackpot aside.

Fun fact: Baelish actually fought in the Battle of Blackwater or at least the Maester says so. Granted he had Lothar Brune with him and probably didn't go on a killing spree but I think its a interesting thing to note. Just because you lose a duel at 15 against a 20 year old better fighter doesn't mean he has no skill. Also yes I would like to see him use the knife at some point. It would amuse me if it was Lyn Corbray.

The Iron Bank has a very odd notion of debt. The debt from Robert and the Lannisters seem to be regarded as the Iron Thrones debt. Hence why they go to Stannis, pay the debt and we can make you King.

Make sense with the reputation of the Iron Bank.

[SeaWitch]

3 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said:

Indeed the stats are really sad but in some cases I feel it is suspect, especially with Aerys and Rhaella. I wonder if Pycelle let some kids die so Tywin could have Rhaegar marry Cersei? Crackpot aside.

Fun fact: Baelish actually fought in the Battle of Blackwater or at least the Maester says so. Granted he had Lothar Brune with him and probably didn't go on a killing spree but I think its a interesting thing to note. Just because you lose a duel at 15 against a 20 year old better fighter doesn't mean he has no skill. Also yes I would like to see him use the knife at some point. It would amuse me if it was Lyn Corbray.

The Iron Bank has a very odd notion of debt. The debt from Robert and the Lannisters seem to be regarded as the Iron Thrones debt. Hence why they go to Stannis, pay the debt and we can make you King.

Make sense with the reputation of the Iron Bank.

Oh, convenient deaths if there were too many stillbirths or too many girls? Very possible. I think Qyburn got chucked out for getting caught, not for doing what he did.

That battle name always trips me - it's another name for the real-world Battle of Maldon.  Where the Anglo-Saxons failed to repel a Viking incursion, and ended up paying the first Danegeld.  Absolutely no coincidence in the naming.

I doubt Petyr was in the frontline, he's not suited to full plate and heavy cavalry.  But I would bet he's very good with a one-handed sword. Different techniques. Also, I wonder if he's good with a bow? He's distance fighting, or one on one, not melee.

The IB deal with institutions. If they dealt with too many individuals, a debt would disappear with death.  The Iron Throne is a poisoned chalice that way.  Lannisters and Tyrells wipe out their own debt by ascension, and the Faith Militant may not end up in a position to ask for repayment. The IB are the only significant player.