CotF and the White Walkers

[The Dragon has three heads]

Obsidian.

I think, and I highly doubt it's 'magic'.

Dem plasma grenades(basically).

[Hodor&Bran]

4 hours ago, Greg B said:

Best literary analogy for me is Saberhagen's Berserkers -- self-replicating machines created by one race as a doomsday weapon to wipe out another race with which they were at war. The main substantive difference being that the Others seem to have periods of dormancy and activity that correspond to the seasons. I wonder if the seasons are jacked up because the CoF were trying to get control of their creation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_(Saberhagen)

Wow didn't think of Saberhagen.  Great series that I read years ago.  Hmmmmmm

[House Toad]

1 hour ago, lojzelote said:

Um, it's just been revealed that the Others are nothing more than a weapon of distruction that its creators lost control of. There's no question of them being "good" in any sense, though you might make a case for them having a righteous cause against CotF.

Now it also makes much more sense that CotF in the books were interested in the Targaryens. They need Fire to beat their Ice creation, because they alone don't seem to be strong enough anymore.

Haven't the Targeryens or a CotF magic equivalent done as the same? It in its doom possibly as creating dragons the source of their powers destroying themself causing civilizations to blight and greyscale leaving barbarity and war? Both have harbingers of death, both are corrupt, both are opposing magic fire/ice, both use the same principles of magic within some reasoning powers vary. However resurrection, vision and undead.  Yet the Firstmen were somehow different when they offered peace to the CotF becoming corrupted by them in worshiping the same gods, the weirwoods, but the Targ's destroyed the CotF uprooting their magics forcing their retreat and warring against them as well as worshiping differently? Which is right and who is wrong? Later a quasi peace balanced choosing different structure and worshiping different, as dragons devolved and religions changed? Until this time.

[Aniel]

6 minutes ago, robasp2 said:

They should have pushed a shard of ice into the sacrificed man..

Was something special shoen about the rock? I didnt see.

It's obsidian, also known as dragonglass, or in Valyrian "frozen fire". It kills White Walkers, and it seems it creates them too.

[House Toad]

2 minutes ago, The Dragon has three heads said:

Obsidian.

I think, and I highly doubt it's 'magic'.

Dem plasma grenades(basically).

A semi precious stone, an earthen source of the CotF magics

[Pumpkin G. Snark]

They constantly show us that the White Walkers can be destroyed with dragonglass and / or Valyrian steel (we’ve seen at least three such examples by now). If it could be done with such relative ease than the WW can’t be such a tremendous threat? Go to Dragonstone (who holds it now in the show, the Lannisters?), mine all the dragonglass you need, make spearheads and arrowheads, arm the Night Watch… The wights probably can’t be made and can’t operate without the WW / Others. Set your archers. Draw, notch, loose. But we really don’t know how many WW are there. (Craster had many sons. And was there only him to make these sacrifices?) But this way of their destruction seems like a version where Gandalf simply flies to Mount Doom on an eagle and drops the One Ring into the lava. So there must be many complications. You’ll have to find all the WWs in these cold blizzards and not to die.  

[ummester]

1 hour ago, lojzelote said:

Um, it's just been revealed that the Others are nothing more than a weapon of distruction that its creators lost control of. There's no question of them being "good" in any sense, though you might make a case for them having a righteous cause against CotF.

Now it also makes much more sense that CotF in the books were interested in the Targaryens. They need Fire to beat their Ice creation, because they alone don't seem to be strong enough anymore.

What were they created to be a weapon against? Oh, that's right, invading humans that were cutting down all the magical trees. Their cause was righteous from the start - and still is.

Where did Bran find them gathered this episode - again, around a big weirwood. Why did they attack Royce in the prologue of book 1? Probably because he wacked a tree with his sword.

The Others/White walkers were created to protect Westeros - and that is what they are doing. Unfortunately, humans have never beedn good for Westeros, so the only way the Others can protect it is to try and get the humans out.

[lojzelote]

3 minutes ago, House Toad said:

Haven't the Targeryens or a CotF magic equivalent done as the same? It in its doom possibly as creating dragons the source of their powers destroying themself causing civilizations to blight and greyscale leaving barbarity and war?

From we've been shown this episode, the Others are the CotF magic. Which begs the question as why they haven't been able to create the Other's Fire equivalent. Either they're not strong enough or they're afraid of fucking up further.

As for the Fire side of equation, I think that places like Asshai are also worth a consideration.

Of course, the Freehold had turned to dust with the Doom, we can only guess what was the cause. It might have the Faceless Men taking revenge or the Valyrians themselves experimenting with new spells or whatever. So, yes, the Valyrians' magic could cause a great and utter distruction, but we don't know what caused their magic getting out of control.

As for greyscale, the Valyrians may have theoretically something to do with it, but we know it already existed before the Doom because a Rhoynar prince cursed with the dragonlords who had burned his city. From the sound of it, it has already been an established sickness at that time.

That aside, Westerosi Targaryens had been very much magic-less except for their bond to dragons. The only ones suggested to be actively practicing magic are Visenya, Bloodraven, and Shiera Seastar.

The point of my previous comment was that CotF+the Starks and the Targaryens need to unite to beat the Others, not that the Valyrians are perfect saviours of the world and CotF suck.

[SevasTra82]

1 minute ago, lojzelote said:

From we've been shown this episode, the Others are the CotF magic. Which begs the question as why they haven't been able to create the Other's Fire equivalent. Either they're not strong enough or they're afraid of fucking up further.

Just speculation on my part, but I think the COTF can only use Water Magic.  The created The Hammer of the Waters, the Flooded the Neck, created The Others, built the wall...so Water seems to be their main magic.  Not sure why.

[Not a kneeler]

Fire destroyed the wights, but the WW came straight through. I, for one, have been expecting Dany's dragons to toast the WW, but it seems as if their fire will be useless. Obsidian and Valyrian steel are the only things we know so far that destroys the WW.

 

[lojzelote]

3 minutes ago, ummester said:

What were they created to be a weapon against? Oh, that's right, invading humans that were cutting down all the magical trees. Their cause was righteous from the start - and still is.

Where did Bran find them gathered this episode - again, around a big weirwood. Why did they attack Royce in the prologue of book 1? Probably because he wacked a tree with his sword.

The Others/White walkers were created to protect Westeros - and that is what they are doing. Unfortunately, humans have never beedn good for Westeros, so the only way the Others can protect it is to try and get the humans out.

Eh, no. The Others have turned against the Children and nature the Children have been guarding. The First Men had been a grave danger to the Children and their weirwoods, but the Others turned against all warm-blooded life including CotF themselves. Unless you believe that the Others in this episode attacked the cave because they still protect the Children and their way of life, which makes about zero sense.

[SevasTra82]

Just now, lojzelote said:

Eh, no. The Others have turned against the Children and nature the Children have been guarding. The First Men had been a grave danger to the Children and their weirwoods, but the Others turned against all warm-blooded life including CotF themselves. Unless you believe that the Others in this episode attacked the cave because they still protect the Children and their way of life, which makes about zero sense.

I agree.  The COTF where desperate because their land was being taken away, so they created The Others, but they simply lost control of their own creation.  So they probably had a hand in driving them back into the North and helped build the Wall, protecting Westeros from them.  They then, probably out of guilt, banished themselves north of the Wall and disappeared.

[ummester]

12 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

Eh, no. The Others have turned against the Children and nature the Children have been guarding. The First Men had been a grave danger to the Children and their weirwoods, but the Others turned against all warm-blooded life including CotF themselves. Unless you believe that the Others in this episode attacked the cave because they still protect the Children and their way of life, which makes about zero sense.

The 3ER said they came for Bran - they killed the children and wolf because they were stopping them from getting to Bran. The 3ER didn't seem like he had any issues being killed by the Nights King - he accepted it was time for Bran to take over whatever he was doing but knew that Bran wasn't ready.

Perhaps the Others don't like the CotF sharing the trees with humans? I dunno - we have to watch and find out but I guarantee the Others care more about Westeros than any other lifeforms in it. GRRM said there were like sidhe, which are the original Gaelic myths for fairies and elves, creatures that protected the woods from humans.

Others are like the ASoIaF version of elves - like angry elves on steroids  But Leaf made it very clear this episode they were created to protect nature, so there is no reason to think their motivation has differed greatly from that. Perhaps they were made too effective nature protectors - but their cause is still far more righteous than wanting to sit on a steel chair, or get revenge, or whatever.

[House Toad]

10 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

From we've been shown this episode, the Others are the CotF magic. Which begs the question as why they haven't been able to create the Other's Fire equivalent. Either they're not strong enough or they're afraid of fucking up further.

As for the Fire side of equation, I think that places like Asshai are also worth a consideration.

Of course, the Freehold had turned to dust with the Doom, we can only guess what was the cause. It might have the Faceless Men taking revenge or the Valyrians themselves experimenting with new spells or whatever. So, yes, the Valyrians' magic could cause a great and utter distruction, but we don't know what caused their magic getting out of control.

As for greyscale, the Valyrians may have theoretically something to do with it, but we know it already existed before the Doom because a Rhoynar prince cursed with the dragonlords who had burned his city. From the sound of it, it has already been an established sickness at that time.

That aside, Westerosi Targaryens had been very much magic-less except for their bond to dragons. The only ones suggested to be actively practicing magic are Visenya, Bloodraven, and Shiera Seastar.

The point of my previous comment was that CotF+the Starks and the Targaryens need to unite to beat the Others, not that the Valyrians are perfect saviours of the world and CotF suck.

Still in only projecting that formula? Aren't the FM a combination of the religions nothing more nothing less, having stranger ties after the 7? Which only rose in a time of stability after the harbingers ceased?

Asshai held Fires secrets the CotF still cling to Ice. The formula can either be regarded or disregard in securing future bonds. Won't they be at each other's throats? Jon kinship with the starks, Arya and Bran Sansa having the old gods. where Dany is flame on, until possibly advised different.

However I believe Bran is the only pawn to checkmate the nightking that warren was far to surreal and epic that this episode was awesome, because of that door unlocking its keykeeper/timekeeper in the matrix witnessed.

[lojzelote]

1 minute ago, ummester said:

The 3ER said they came for Bran - they killed the children and wolf because they were stopping them from getting to Bran. The 3ER didn't seem like he had any issues being killed by the Nights King - he accepted ot was time for bran to take over whatever he was doing but knew that Bran wasn't ready.

Perhaps they dont like the CotF sharing the trees with humans? I dunno - we have to watch and find out but I guarantee the Others care more about Westeros than any other lifeforms in it. GRRM said there were like sidhe, which are the original Gaelic myths for fairies and elves, creatures that protected the woods from humans.

In which case they would be blindly obeying the possible original order of protecting the weirwoods from humans, while destroying all life in the process. It's crystal clear that the Children now consider the Others to their main enemy, not the mankind.

They have turned the beautiful lush green land from Bran's vision to frozen wasteland. They are not compatible with life as we know it and they want to invade the Seven Kingdoms and bring eternal winter with them.

[ummester]

1 minute ago, lojzelote said:

In which case they would be blindly obeying the possible original order of protecting the weirwoods from humans, while destroying all life in the process. It's crystal clear that the Children now consider the Others to their main enemy, not the mankind.

They have turned the beautiful lush green land from Bran's vision to frozen wasteland. They are not compatible with life as we know it and they want to invade the Seven Kingdoms and bring eternal winter with them.

 

Um, trees are life? Trees are life that we know of. If a tree falls in the forest does anyone care - the Others do  Serious question, is it worth saving the human race if it means destroying the Earth? I think this is the type of question that is being asked with the Others.

Besides all of this, if you re watch the scene, the CotF start attacking the Others before the Others attack them. The Others and their zombies just stand there - kind of like what Ned's dad said to him - try not to get into any fights but if you do, make sure you win

 

[DragonDreamer]

5 minutes ago, lojzelote said:

In which case they would be blindly obeying the possible original order of protecting the weirwoods from humans, while destroying all life in the process. It's crystal clear that the Children now consider the Others to their main enemy, not the mankind.

They have turned the beautiful lush green land from Bran's vision to frozen wasteland. They are not compatible with life as we know it and they want to invade the Seven Kingdoms and bring eternal winter with them.

Addicting to this, the WW have proven that they don't want any kind of life around. They have killed tens of thousands of Wildings who presumedly all have First Men blood. So, no they are not protecting anyone, they are just seeking to carry out their own agenda, to make a world only inhabitable by them and their kind. 

 

[the tower of albion]

6 hours ago, IamMe90 said:

Of course the Great Other doesn't exist. Did you really need tonight's episode to know that?

so dragons will scorch a great zombie army and yadda yadda yadda that will be it. The great war about nothing.

[lojzelote]

6 minutes ago, House Toad said:

Still in only projecting that formula? Aren't the FM a combination of the religions nothing more nothing less, having stranger ties after the 7? Which only rose in a time of stability after the harbingers ceased?

Asshai held Fires secrets the CotF still cling to Ice. The formula can either be regarded or disregard in securing future bonds. Won't they be at each other's throats? Jon kinship with the starks, Arya and Bran Sansa having the old gods. where Dany is flame on, until possibly advised different.

However I believe Bran is the only pawn to checkmate the nightking that warren was far to surreal and epic that this episode was awesome, because of that door unlocking its keykeeper/timekeeper in the matrix witnessed.

Hard to say, but I like to believe that there's something more to the Faceless Men than means for Arya aquiring superpowers.

The theories about Dany and Jon fighting each other are bogus. Ultimately they are meant to complement each other and cooperate in reaching their common goal. It's just that some people still haven't made peace with the idea of a girl being a military leader and riding the biggest dragon, therefore then need to make her into a bloodthirsty and mad antagonist. *yawn*

[ummester]

2 minutes ago, DragonDreamer said:

Addicting to this, the WW have proven that they don't want any kind of life around. They have killed tens of thousands of Wildings who presumedly all have First Men blood. So, no they are not protecting anyone, they are just seeking to carry out their own agenda, to make a world only inhabitable by them and their kind. 

 

They want trees around and trees are life - in this universe they also seem to be the source of all magic, so the Others are protecting the ethereal.