Mladen Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 So, Lady Stork was busy this week... Interestingly enough, she lets LF lives. Was that a good decision? We shall see. LF got the necessary leverage with the army, but the point is how will that play in what's to come. I half-expected to see some mutually beneficial agreement, but I doubt they will be apart for long... The second scene was also interesting on multiple levels. First one is that lie. Did LF really get to Sansa and made her distrustful towards her own family? Or did she really have some other reason to lie? On the other hand, we almost got some version of "North remembers" speech from Sansa. Apparently, she has started playing some game of her own with Jon, but to what results, Gods will know. She made him Ned's attire but also compared him to Ramsay (ouch!!!). Brienne was sent to Riverrun. Will BF be one of those numerous armies at Battle of Winterfell? The stork, the crow, the red falcon has flown from Castle Black... So, once again, welcome to the thread... Enjoy discussing Lady Stork's adventures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I will just quote myself from the "Possible marriage" thread: I don't really think she acted as horribly as most people are saying she did. Sure, she lied to Jon about LF, the Blackfish and the Vale armies. That is bad and will have repercussions later on, I'm sure of it. But, well, when she compared him to Ramsay...she was right. Within the Show's own context, a Bastard who killed his father is ruling the North. Yes, he was made a Bolton, but I really doubt the Lords and Ladies care about that...he'll always be Roose's bastard. Jon is also a bastard, that's pretty clear, but when Sansa was comparing both of them, she was doing it because of the way Northeners believe in power. As soon as Jon shows his strength, many Northern Houses will follow him, the same as many other Houses are following Ramsay, just because of the sheer fear he inspires. This is, of course, something that happens on the Show. Kinslaying doesn't seem much of a problem (the way Euron talks about killing Yara and Theon), the same with bastards. Sansa mentions herself as the Stark because she is, indeed, a Stark. They already have the Stark name on her, they shouldn't worry about Jon being a bastard. Besides, even Brienne calls on Sansa on her lying to Jon, and it's clear she feels bad about it, just look at her face (by the way, Sophie's acting this season is superb). She's got used to lies, that's all. She realizes it on that very moment. It's what happens when your "protector" is LF, and your husband Ramsay. You lie to survive. But she still makes him the new Stark clothers, as close as the ones Ned wore, and she still acted very nicely to him on that scene. Jon also didn't seem too hurt about the whole "bastard" stuff. Either way, Sansa lying to Jon can be taken as a betrayal, and I get why. But, on the other hand, I'm pretty sure no one believes she's doing this to protect him from LF and his games. And I think it's as possible (if not more) as her just being bitchy and jelaous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asma Ben Hamouda Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Wow, when she didn't tell Jon about LF that made my interest to the north story goes to 1000X, and her smile at the end of the meeting, the story of Sansa and Jon became so unpredictable to me, I think what will happen will shred all expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ingelheim said: I don't really think she acted as horribly as most people are saying she did. Sure, she lied to Jon about LF, the Blackfish and the Vale armies. That is bad and will have repercussions later on, I'm sure of it. Undoubtedly it will. I don't see it as some great act of betrayal, but it does make me wonder why she did it. Brienne obviously heard entire conversation, so one would assume that if she thought Sansa was being manipulated, she would have told her so. I am not sure that even Sansa knows why she lied. I agree with you, she does feel bad and the entire scene of her giving Jon Ned's cloak speaks how much she does trust Jon. Was it about Jon or the rest of the gang? Did she lie just to him, or to everyone else? I am really interested to see what will happen with Brienne and how will Vale/Riverlands forces fit into all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asma Ben Hamouda Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 14 minutes ago, Ingelheim said: Either way, Sansa lying to Jon can be taken as a betrayal, and I get why. But, on the other hand, I'm pretty sure no one believes she's doing this to protect him from LF and his games. And I think it's as possible (if not more) as her just being bitchy and jelaous. why when come to Sansa everybody try to make her evil???? maybe not telling Jon about LF will result to something good?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just now, Asma Ben Hamouda said: why when come to Sansa everybody try to make her evil???? Because Sansa Stark is the worst person in Westeros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, Risto said: Undoubtedly it will. I don't see it as some great act of betrayal, but it does make me wonder why she did it. Brienne obviously heard entire conversation, so one would assume that if she thought Sansa was being manipulated, she would have told her so. I am not sure that even Sansa knows why she lied. I agree with you, she does feel bad and the entire scene of her giving Jon Ned's cloak speaks how much she does trust Jon. Was it about Jon or the rest of the gang? Did she lie just to him, or to everyone else? I am really interested to see what will happen with Brienne and how will Vale/Riverlands forces fit into all of this. It seemed to me that her motivation for lying wasn't about Jon or any of the others, but rather that she doesn't trust Littlefinger at all and doesn't want his help or his involvement in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asma Ben Hamouda Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Risto said: Because Sansa Stark is the worst person in Westeros No it's because she lied on Jon, no one must lie to the God Jon, lies to The God Jon is punishable by death Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 minute ago, bb1180 said: It seemed to me that her motivation for lying wasn't about Jon or any of the others, but rather that she doesn't trust Littlefinger at all and doesn't want his help or his involvement in any way. Interesting. I assume she knows that LF would be able to convince Jon to join them but nonetheless, she did lie. And I don't think the rest of the gang will like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 On 23/5/2016 at 4:12 AM, Risto said: Undoubtedly it will. I don't see it as some great act of betrayal, but it does make me wonder why she did it. Brienne obviously heard entire conversation, so one would assume that if she thought Sansa was being manipulated, she would have told her so. I am not sure that even Sansa knows why she lied. I agree with you, she does feel bad and the entire scene of her giving Jon Ned's cloak speaks how much she does trust Jon. Was it about Jon or the rest of the gang? Did she lie just to him, or to everyone else? I am really interested to see what will happen with Brienne and how will Vale/Riverlands forces fit into all of this. I'll quote myself from the Discussing Sansa thread If you ask me there are three ways you can look into this, and the thing is...they are not mutually exclusive: -She lies because, as ever, LF is cunning enough to poison her ears, and makes her have doubts about her position and her power. That's why he mentions his "half-brother's army". And right before that, he reminds her of her Tully side, mentioning the Blackfish. He's trying to get her away from Jon, making her suspicious of Jon. This is somethig I was expecting since I saw the preview. LF wants Sansa all for himself. He cannot handle that she puts his trust on another man, even less so if that man is her brother. -She lies because she's actually the only one who knows LF, and knows Davos, Jon and Tormund are not worthy opponents of LF regarding the Game of Thrones. LF has always been shady as fuck, so the Vale army is just a double edged weapon that could turn against them (LF could easily use the Vale after the battle to destroy Jon's army). She doesn't want it, and she doesn't want anything related to LF. She wants to get the North on her own terms, with her brother. -She lies because she doesn't want the others to know about her meeting with LF. Also, as I mentioned before...Sansa's got used to lies. It's basically what LF taught her. You can feel it and see it on her face right after Brienne calls her on it...she's not feeling good about lying...to Jon. She couldn't give a fuck about the others, but not Jon. Either way, these lies are going to be adressed in the future episodes. I'm sure Jon will find out Sansa knew about the Vale army all along. Probably after E.9, maybe even before it actually shows up. Their dynamics are pretty interesting already, so, I'm excited about how this will pay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asma Ben Hamouda Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Risto said: Interesting. I assume she knows that LF would be able to convince Jon to join them but nonetheless, she did lie. And I don't think the rest of the gang will like that. Can we wait some episodes to see what the goal of this lie?? you know the writers adresses this point by making Brienne Asking her why she lied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb1180 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just now, Risto said: Interesting. I assume she knows that LF would be able to convince Jon to join them but nonetheless, she did lie. And I don't think the rest of the gang will like that. I agree on both counts, and yes, I think it that probably will cause a bit of bickering within the group later this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Asma Ben Hamouda said: Can we wait some episodes to see what the goal of this lie?? you know the writers adresses this point by making Brienne Asking her why she lied? No, we need answers now Of course we will wait for definite answers, but in the meantime, we can discuss it, right? 3 minutes ago, Ingelheim said: Either way, these lies are going to be adressed in the future episodes. I'm sure Jon will find out Sansa knew about the Vale army all along. Probably after E.9, maybe even before it actually shows up. Their dynamics are pretty interesting already, so, I'm excited about how this will pay off. I do agree... It will be interesting to see how this plays out... SPOILERS FROM INSIDE THE EPISODE VIDEO Spoiler Benioff said that Sansa not killing LF is actually thinking long-term, as Weiss said that the lie was the mistrust towards Jon and her not coming as clean, true Stark and LF having some hold on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg1982 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Sansa lies to Jon because she knows that Littlefinger is up to no good, but is afraid that Jon will only focus on the number of troops rather than on the cost associated with those troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfQueenArya Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Well I have always disliked her and I knew she would revert back to her old self soon enough. inguess we will see what happens in the next five episodes. I am expecting a sibling rivalry to take place. And with Bran most likely coming back south of the Wall Sansa can't be queen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asma Ben Hamouda Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Risto said: No, we need answers now Of course we will wait for definite answers, but in the meantime, we can discuss it, right? I can discuss but man, those fanboys, since this morning, the only question is 'why this despicable whore Sansa lied to Our God Jon", Jeez, they are fictional characters, focus on the story, I can't think of any prediction,the story of Sansa/Jon/Lf is so mysterious, I can't tell if she is protecting jon, protecting LF but I'm sure of something she will never betray Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asma Ben Hamouda Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, WolfQueenArya said: Well I have always disliked her and I knew she would revert back to her old self soon enough. inguess we will see what happens in the next five episodes. I am expecting a sibling rivalry to take place. And with Bran most likely coming back south of the Wall Sansa can't be queen! Here come arya fans, their hate on Sansa is legendary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, WolfQueenArya said: Well I have always disliked her and I knew she would revert back to her old self soon enough. inguess we will see what happens in the next five episodes. I am expecting a sibling rivalry to take place. And with Bran most likely coming back south of the Wall Sansa can't be queen! Old self? Old self hadn't been able to even try to tell the lie so entire "reverting to her old self" in this case is kinda nonsense. And people die. I am not the one arguing she will be the queen, but it is not out of possibility. The thing is that Sansa herself hadn't showed any actual desire to be a Queen or anything. Her only motivation so far, to quote her is to return home for her and her siblings. Just now, Asma Ben Hamouda said: I can discuss but man, those fanboys, since this morning, the only question is 'why this despicable whore Sansa lied to Our God Jon", Jeez, they are fictional characters, focus on the story, I can't think of any prediction,the story of Sansa/Jon/Lf is so mysterious, I can't tell if she is protecting jon, protecting LF but I'm sure of something she will never betray Jon Well, all I can ask as the OP is to leave whore comments outside this thread. Just now, Asma Ben Hamouda said: Here come arya fans, their hate to Sansa is legendary Don't make generalizations... Arya fandom is too large to make conclusions based on one individual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Lying about the Vale's knights was just dumb and harmful, and not needed for this storyline to work. She should have admitted that aid was offered from LF, but made it clear that she doesn't think it's worth banking on because she considers Baelish an enemy of the family too. This of course raises the question of whether she's against it for the practical reason of not wanting to trust an unreliable ally, or the more personal issue rooted in the rape and battering she suffered at the hands of the husband LF sold her to, but Sansa outright lying about and obfuscating the mere knowledge of a potentially massive boon to the Starks' efforts just runs contrary to their assertion that she's become a "proper player." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Wow. It didn't take long for Sansa to start lying to Jon. Littlefinger is good. All he had to do was point out that Sansa didn't have an army that was purely loyal to her and not Jon and that Jon was her "half-brother" and bam! Lies and deceit aplenty. Not loving the "manipulative bitch Sansa misleading poor gullible cinnamon roll Jon" vibes from the writing in this episode. The camera made a point of his pained faces when Sansa gracelessly pointed out he lacked the Stark name and compared him to Ramsay. ...I guess once Ramsay out of the way, it will be Sansa vs. Jon? That's probably why Jon and Sansa had such a warm and fuzzy reunion, so that when they wind up at odds, it will be that much more heartbreaking. As I said, LIttlefinger is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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