Hold the Door!

[AryaFTW]

9 minutes ago, U-238A said:

This. The reason why it is such a great scene is because of its ambiguity. Much like the endings of psych thrillers, we're left with only enough to interpret it in our own ways. In my opinion, it was done flawlessly.

Similar to what I previously posted, part of the beauty of it is not being able to dissect it and micro-analyse every single detail of the time travelling/warging so as to come to a conclusion before the story unfolds. We'll find out eventually when more of Bran's powers are revealed.

Well said, good point!

[Lucamore the Lusty]

Damn Hodor! Damn! Way to man up.

[WinterCloak]

I am curious about what door Hodor may have to hold in the books.

I was under the impression Bran was being integrated into the weirwood.net but maybe that's a twist for WoW? That Bran can leave the cave even though we expected him to have weirwood roots growing into him? 

RIP Summer and Hodor.

Brilliant acting by kid!Hodor.

[The Fattest Leech]

On 5/23/2016 at 10:20 PM, -Ghost- said:

In the after episode thing, D&D say GRRM specifically told them about this. I need confirmation from him before I believe them though.

I have seen a few theories on this forum about what happens to Hodor in that episode, and I feel I need a little confirmation before I can believe D&D because there is this "joke" from 2008... which is 5 years before the article about the elevator occurred.

 

[Yukle]

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have seen a few theories on this forum about what happens to Hodor in that episode, and I feel I need a little confirmation before I can believe D&D because there is this "joke" from 2008... which is 5 years before the article about the elevator occurred.

On that, I am really disgusted with the way that D&D flat out say that they're spoiling the books. The book community was really respectful about not ruining things and now that they're ahead, they're always saying,

"GUESS WHAT?! GRRM CONFIRMED THIS! Enjoy your ruined book after we tell you how the entire thing goes! What's that? You were thinking that this plot point will be different in the books? Well hold onto your burning Baratheon children and LISTEN TO OUR SPOILERS INTERWEBZ!"

It kind of feels like the opposite of what book readers did for years.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, Yukle said:

On that, I am really disgusted with the way that D&D flat out say that they're spoiling the books. The book community was really respectful about not ruining things and now that they're ahead, they're always saying,

"GUESS WHAT?! GRRM CONFIRMED THIS! Enjoy your ruined book after we tell you how the entire thing goes! What's that? You were thinking that this plot point will be different in the books? Well hold onto your burning Baratheon children and LISTEN TO OUR SPOILERS INTERWEBZ!"

It kind of feels like the opposite of what book readers did for years.

Benioff even thanked book readers for "not ruining" things for the show. But curiously enough, Benioff said this about a guy taking pictures of the set which would "spoil" the show.

“I just want to point out that guy’s an a–hole,” Benioff says of one of the paparazzi infiltrators. “You’re not cool for doing that, you’re an a–hole.”

My take away is as long as you are not spoiling the show for him, you are cool. But, he can spoil the books as seen fit during interviews and the Behind the Episode segments??? Got it

[Yukle]

6 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

My take away is as long as you are not spoiling the show for him, you are cool. But, he can spoil the books as seen fit during interviews and the Behind the Episode segments??? Got it

Yeah... I start to feel that as well.

They really flaunt it, too. It's not as if we're there personally asking questions, they get to choose what goes to air in the segments. In fact, we don't really care if those segments air at all. It's as if they're just adding them on to spoil stuff. Literally no one is asking, "Can you please, just to spoil things for me, confirm if this will be in an upcoming book?"

[Nymeria_Stark]

On 5/23/2016 at 10:23 PM, jmondrag said:

I'm a bit confused at what we just witnessed going on... Anyone care to explain how they're interpreting it? 

As far as I can tell, while Bran was warging the weirwood to see Winterfell in the past, he could hear Meera begging him to wake up and warg Hodor. I think that somehow, Bran hearing Meera telling present-day Hodor to hold the door built a link between him and his past self (aka. Willas).

But, here's my question. Did Bran just stand on the sidelines and witness Willas become Hodor? Or did Bran's psychic link to the past while still hearing Meera in the present affect past-Willas' link to present-Hodor?

My best guess is that Bran was meant to go north and warg the Weirwood which means that his seeing past-Winterfell in that exact moment that present-day White Walkers attacked the CotF's hideout was meant to happen. While he did sort of witness Willas become Hodor, I believe that Bran's link between the past and present somehow forged a link between Willas/Hodor's past and present and made him the person he is now.

IDK if this is helpful or more confusing to you, but I guess I'm still trying to work through my own confusion.

[dd1al]

So, after all this time, did Hodor knew this would happen? I'd like to think that he vaguely remember that he has one mission that he must not fail: to hold the door.

[Winter Rose Crown]

Has anyone seen the movie Push? Dakota Fanning played a Watcher (someone with psychic sight) and she runs into a Pusher (someone who can control other people by changing their thoughts). She starts crying and says, "please don't make me hurt myself." It reminds me of this episode. Hodor wasn't a hero who saved  Bran (though he may have if given the opportunity), Bran took away his whole mind from the time he was 12ish and then forced him to kill himself.

[Aryya Stark]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, I didn't get a chance to read the entire thread, but a couple of things confused me. Firstly, was Bran aware of what was happening in the present when he warged into Hodor in the past? That didn't come across to me. I don't think he knew what was going on except that he heard Meera to warg into Hodor.

Secondly, I am assuming that Summer is going to turn into a wight now, is it possible that he will still have a bond with Bran?

Very sad episode

[Ser Kafka]

Ok, first of all, sorry for potentially asking the same question which has most likely already been asking in the previous thirteen pages!

Secondly, the question/query: hadn't Bran been taken over by the Three-Eyed Raven so he could transfer as much info in the little time available? In which case, how could Bran warg Hodor? I think I missed something there, and I haven't had the chance to watch it again. And, assuming that's all possible, was past-Hodor warged by future-Bran because future-Bran was already 'in the past' when he warged present-Hodor 'in the present'? God, I hope that made sense. 

I dunno. It was a beautifully made scene, very powerful and emotional, which would mean I understood what happened, but this time travel thingy has me a little unstuck. I get the concept that it's all one timeline, that you cannot go back to the past to alter the future, but isn't that what Bran did? I.e. he was in the past and warged Hodor? Or did Willas change to Hodor because of future-Bran, we just never 'saw' it yet? 

Also, why would Bran have a need to warg past-Hodor/Willas?

I think I'm overly confusing a simple premise here! 

[JonisHenryTudor]

6 hours ago, ummester said:

Well, I have a favourite - the Others. They are pure, not driven by greed, emotions or material motives. I have been and will always be on team White Walker.

I don't mind team High Sparrow, but I prefer naturalism to theism, so team White Walker trumps

The Other's are growing on me!

[Mr. Sven]

This is definitely show specific, in the books everything we know about Hodor indicates that he was always like this.  Anyway I didn't care for the scene.  It served no real purpose other than to force a "heart breaking" moment or whatever.  The writers basically have no original ideas.  The only way they know how to create this feeling is through killing a character off, and since Hodor is well liked and basically expendable they figured he would do, same with Osha basically in the other episode.  So to make it even more "dramatic" they give Hodor the cliched heroes death and show that his problems are all Bran's fault lol

[HellasLEAF]

Wow.  Hodor.

Hold the door.

Wow.  

[Ninerings]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Sven said:

This is definitely show specific, in the books everything we know about Hodor indicates that he was always like this.  Anyway I didn't care for the scene.  It served no real purpose other than to force a "heart breaking" moment or whatever.  The writers basically have no original ideas.  The only way they know how to create this feeling is through killing a character off, and since Hodor is well liked and basically expendable they figured he would do, same with Osha basically in the other episode.  So to make it even more "dramatic" they give Hodor the cliched heroes death and show that his problems are all Bran's fault lol

I'm always the first out of book "purists" to hate the tripe they have been putting on air in the name of on of my favorite stories. But I didn't get the "kill Hodor for the sake of killing Hodor" vibe here. It was a crushing blow that actually made feeling s happen. Something these dimwits have been incapable of doing for a long time.

It is also one of the first (if true) reveals of what is to come in the books. It introduced the whole point of Bran realizing his powers and what he is capable of. I hate most of what I see on this show, and other nitpicks aside, I dug the scene.

[Mr. Sven]

21 minutes ago, Ninerings said:

I'm always the first out of book "purists" to hate the tripe they have been putting on air in the name of on of my favorite stories. But I didn't get the "kill Hodor for the sake of killing Hodor" vibe here. It was a crushing blow that actually made feeling s happen. Something these dimwits have been incapable of doing for a long time.

It is also one of the first (if true) reveals of what is to come in the books. It introduced the whole point of Bran realizing his powers and what he is capable of. I hate most of what I see on this show, and other nitpicks aside, I dug the scene.

It just felt too forced to me.  I mean really what was the point of Max Von Sydow taking him to show Hodor becoming Hodor?  They could have just left lol.  

[Ser Kafka]

37 minutes ago, Ninerings said:

 

48 minutes ago, Mr. Sven said:

This is definitely show specific, in the books everything we know about Hodor indicates that he was always like this.  Anyway I didn't care for the scene.  It served no real purpose other than to force a "heart breaking" moment or whatever.  The writers basically have no original ideas.  The only way they know how to create this feeling is through killing a character off, and since Hodor is well liked and basically expendable they figured he would do, same with Osha basically in the other episode.  So to make it even more "dramatic" they give Hodor the cliched heroes death and show that his problems are all Bran's fault lol

 

I'm always the first out of book "purists" to hate the tripe they have been putting on air in the name of on of my favorite stories. But I didn't get the "kill Hodor for the sake of killing Hodor" vibe here. It was a crushing blow that actually made feeling s happen. Something these dimwits have been incapable of doing for a long time.

It is also one of the first (if true) reveals of what is to come in the books. It introduced the whole point of Bran realizing his powers and what he is capable of. I hate most of what I see on this show, and other nitpicks aside, I dug the scene.

 

 

If I've understood it correctly, Bran had to be there for Hodor to become Hodor. 

[Ser Kafka]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Sven said:

It just felt too forced to me.  I mean really what was the point of Max Von Sydow taking him to show Hodor becoming Hodor?  They could have just left lol.  

 

If I've understood it correctly, Bran had to be there for Hodor to become Hodor. 

[Quoted wrong post above].

[Hodor's Aunt]

On 23.5.2016 at 8:07 AM, Nnyan said:

Not sure why/how Bran is the key to the wall.  While I've read a number of things that indicate that the wall was created with some magic I've never seen anything referring to specific magic that is specifically aimed at keeping out white walkers (if you know of a reference let me know).  So IMHO the WW can not track Bran j/b he is marked that just allowed them to enter the tree and know where he is. 

Well in the books,

Spoiler

coldhands explicitly tells Bran he can't pass the wall, cause magic creatures are blocked.