Hold the Door!

[Ser Kafka]

17 minutes ago, Hodor's Aunt said:

Well in the books,

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coldhands explicitly tells Bran he can't pass the wall, cause magic creatures are blocked. 

 

 

How did he get beyond the Wall? Or is it like a lobster trap? You can go in, but not back out again? 

Honest question btw. I need to reread a few of the books!

[Anythingatall]

On 5/24/2016 at 6:00 AM, Mr. Sven said:

This is definitely show specific, in the books everything we know about Hodor indicates that he was always like this.  Anyway I didn't care for the scene.  It served no real purpose other than to force a "heart breaking" moment or whatever.  The writers basically have no original ideas.  The only way they know how to create this feeling is through killing a character off, and since Hodor is well liked and basically expendable they figured he would do, same with Osha basically in the other episode.  So to make it even more "dramatic" they give Hodor the cliched heroes death and show that his problems are all Bran's fault lol

D and D have said that GRRM told them about this.  I presume they aren't lying.  

I would imagine that in the book we have a more logical reason why he would hold the door but other than that I would imagine it's the same.

[Mr. Sven]

7 minutes ago, Anythingatall said:

D and D have said that GRRM told them about this.  I presume they aren't lying.  

I would imagine that in the book we have a more logical reason why he would hold the door but other than that I would imagine it's the same.

Yeah I read that after I posted haha.  I'm hoping it happens a different way in the books because I didn't care for how it happened in the show.

[Juggzy]

3 hours ago, Aryya Stark said:

Secondly, I am assuming that Summer is going to turn into a wight now, is it possible that he will still have a bond with Bran

Maybe Hodor is turned into a wight?  That's what the WW do; they turn the wight's victims into wights. The only thing that mediates against this is that the WW present at the scene is dead; however, we've seen other people turned into wights without a WW obviously present.  If Hodor is turned into a wight, maybe he also still has a link to Bran. 

[Josethyne Frost]

Do you think Hodor always knew that and how he was going to die?  Did he go into the cave with eyes wide open or do you think he doesn't understand what the echo of 'Hodor' is? Do you think he always knew Bran was responsible but took care of him anyway?  I'd really like to figure out what his level of awareness about it all was. 

[Azul DeLaRosa]

21 hours ago, CJDTrismegistus said:

 

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If you want to be spoiled, check out this link - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1152798/

 

That gladdens my heart. 

[The Imp slap]

12 minutes ago, Azul DeLaRosa said:

That gladdens my heart. 

Don't trust IMDB, many unsullied can edit the damn thing. 

[Azul DeLaRosa]

10 minutes ago, The Imp slap said:

Don't trust IMDB, many unsullied can edit the damn thing. 

Aww!

I want it to be true so bad. After the last episode, i need a pick me up. 

[Aerys Blackfyre]

absolutely fucking brilliant

never saw it coming!

[UnmaskedLurker]

3 hours ago, The Imp slap said:

Don't trust IMDB, many unsullied can edit the damn thing. 

This information has been confirmed from other reliable sources. We will know for sure in a few days, but I think there is very high confidence in the alternative source that confirmed this information.

[The Imp slap]

47 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

This information has been confirmed from other reliable sources. We will know for sure in a few days, but I think there is very high confidence in the alternative source that confirmed this information.

That's good news then! Now could the show make Benjen & Cold Hands one person? 

[TexasDirewolf]

11 hours ago, Yukle said:

On that, I am really disgusted with the way that D&D flat out say that they're spoiling the books. The book community was really respectful about not ruining things and now that they're ahead, they're always saying,

"GUESS WHAT?! GRRM CONFIRMED THIS! Enjoy your ruined book after we tell you how the entire thing goes! What's that? You were thinking that this plot point will be different in the books? Well hold onto your burning Baratheon children and LISTEN TO OUR SPOILERS INTERWEBZ!"

It kind of feels like the opposite of what book readers did for years.

Not to play Devil's Advocate here but your opinion on the reputation of us book readers isn't exactly on point. Sure, this site made efforts create spoiler free discussion areas for tv viewers. But the GoT IMDb forum, Reddit, Facebook and Twitter (where most go to discuss television) all were littered with book readers who took great joy in sticking their nose up and spoiling moments for tv viewers. I read all of the books after watching Season 1 of GoT and it was common knowledge that you didn't frequent the IMDb board because book readers would spoil things as a way to tout their "knowedge" of the story. I had Ned's death, Theon's betrayal and pieces of the Red Wedding all ruined for me midway through Season 1. 

 

This site is wonderful (and it helps that I've read all of the books now) but book readers most certainly did not have a glowing reputation prior to the show surpassing the books. I'll clarify that I'm not suggesting all or even most book readers were that way. As I said, I became a reader myself. 

[House Toad]

5 hours ago, Josethyne Frost said:

Do you think Hodor always knew that and how he was going to die?  Did he go into the cave with eyes wide open or do you think he doesn't understand what the echo of 'Hodor' is? Do you think he always knew Bran was responsible but took care of him anyway?  I'd really like to figure out what his level of awareness about it all was. 

The Blood Raven Warged into Hodor, pushing/hiding Hodor's conciousness away underneath, so it wasn't the dominating presence. The BR needed to control Hodor, because he needed to invest his power into Bran, and Bran would die if Hodor wasn't manipulated in the present, able to save Bran? However the Nightking killed the BR as he was warged into Hodor? The result was the broken boy of Hodor never full returning to Walder?

The most interesting thing about it is it has created a paradox showing the extent of their powers. What else can be manipulated? We know whispers have been echoed across the veil from Bran to Ned at the Tower of Joy. We know Bran has been marked through the veil, leading to these events and Hodor's death.

In the Books warging was given some detail about how the creature being warged into would normally resist, trying to fight the invading mind taking it over and it being pushed to the back. Summer shared a link with Bran so he found it easy, and Bran almost became lost in Summer, he wanted to be the Wolf rather than the cripple boy. Jojen helped Bran become better at warging and be aware of some dangers through tutoring him, greenseer green-dreams last possibly hours to days, there is obvious dangers. However when Bran did this to other animals, not Summer, it was a struggle, but with practice not impossible. When he warged into Hodor, this was normally forbidden by wargs because of the dangers from warging into humans. But Bran found it easier to achieve, because there wasn't much resistance with Hodor. As it had been done before? In the show at Queenscrown, the tower he warged into Hodor to calm him in the lightning storm, stopping Hodor freaking out? Hmm we can make all kind of suggestions of the past scene at Queenscrown assuming Hodor may have thought something non-lightning? Although it was the first time Bran had warged into a human, non creature on the show. Was it difficult?

[House Toad]

17 minutes ago, House Toad said:

The Blood Raven Warged into Hodor, pushing/hiding Hodor's conciousness away underneath, so it wasn't the dominating presence. The BR needed to control Hodor, because he needed to invest his power into Bran, and Bran would die if Hodor wasn't manipulated in the present, able to save Bran? However the Nightking killed the BR as he was warged into Hodor? The result was the broken boy of Hodor never full returning to Walder?

The most interesting thing about it is it has created a paradox showing the extent of their powers. What else can be manipulated? We know whispers have been echoed across the veil from Bran to Ned at the Tower of Joy. We know Bran has been marked through the veil, leading to these events and Hodor's death.

In the Books warging was given some detail about how the creature being warged into would normally resist, trying to fight the invading mind taking it over and it being pushed to the back. Summer shared a link with Bran so he found it easy, and Bran almost became lost in Summer, he wanted to be the Wolf rather than the cripple boy. Jojen helped Bran become better at warging and be aware of some dangers through tutoring him, greenseer green-dreams last possibly hours to days, there is obvious dangers. However when Bran did this to other animals, not Summer, it was a struggle, but with practice not impossible. When he warged into Hodor, this was normally forbidden by wargs because of the dangers from warging into humans. But Bran found it easier to achieve, because there wasn't much resistance with Hodor. As it had been done before? In the show at Queenscrown, the tower he warged into Hodor to calm him in the lightning storm, stopping Hodor freaking out? Hmm we can make all kind of suggestions of the past scene at Queenscrown assuming Hodor may have thought something non-lightning? Although it was the first time Bran had warged into a human, non creature on the show. Was it difficult?

From this what can we assume about Jon's resurrection? My bad sshhh Hodor arghhh bad toadstool. Tinfoil hats its straw time D'oh. Maybe she had the power?

 

[Lone direwolf]

On 5/23/2016 at 7:49 AM, AryaFTW said:

Mixed episode, 6/10. Is Bran a monster? Because he just warged Hodor into sacrificing himself...... Like it would have been more impactful if Hodor didnt have to be warged and sacrificed himself.... Better yet, keep the scene the same and at the last second have hodor yell "RUN" (both in the past and present). So that we realize he is aware and sacrificing himself....

I think Hodor did sacrifice himself to save Bran.  He saw his death as a child and that broke him, but he still went with Bran on the journey knowing his fate.  To me it's the equivalent of Jojen having a green dream.  He also knew when he would die, but he still took that path.  I'm starting to think someone with the powers of Bran is what causes greendreams in others and only a few people are susceptible to receiving them.

[Ingelheim]

1 hour ago, The Imp slap said:

That's good news then! Now could the show make Benjen & Cold Hands one person? 

Yep, that's what I think. Either they make an dead (but conscious) Benjen that takes the role of Coldhands , or they simply bring back Benjen as he was before he left the Wall.

[House Toad]

36 minutes ago, Lone direwolf said:

I think Hodor did sacrifice himself to save Bran.  He saw his death as a child and that broke him, but he still went with Bran on the journey knowing his fate.  To me it's the equivalent of Jojen having a green dream.  He also knew when he would die, but he still took that path.  I'm starting to think someone with the powers of Bran is what causes greendreams in others and only a few people are susceptible to receiving them.

Why would a child clearly warged into. You can see his eyes turn in the past, also in the present. However when the BR dies he goes back broken as Hodor not Walder. But his eyes have changed back into Walder, at the time of the BR's death. Why would a child save another child? The raven was transferring power to Bran in death. Although who knows what death actually means inside of these warrens?

The point is the scene was an instruction to Bran there was no time for Bran to complete his training. Why would Bran be taken there to see this paradox. Its purpose?

The scene was powerful, it was surreal, and it was emotional. Although there is some apparent translation. The Blood raven means hmm?

I likes talking to myself because I likes making stuff up, or has the moderitler created an illusion where something is being blanked?

[Lord Lannister]

On 5/23/2016 at 3:47 AM, CockroachCaptain said:

This makes book Hodor's reaction to Bran warging him so much darker.

Experiencing his own death is what broke his mind as a child and forced him to endlessly repeat what would be his final command, and every time Bran wargs him it reminds him of that feeling and that one day he'll have to live through that trauma again.

Definitely has GRRM all over it. One of the most devastating fates for one of the most innocent characters.

Now we have to wonder if something like this happened to Patchface.

I'm glad I'm not the only one this occurred to. As tragic as this was, it was also dark. Very dark. This incident cost Hodor his life. All of it. His shattered mind was just a battlefield in the war against the Night's King.

[Gala]

1 hour ago, Lone direwolf said:

I think Hodor did sacrifice himself to save Bran.  He saw his death as a child and that broke him, but he still went with Bran on the journey knowing his fate.  To me it's the equivalent of Jojen having a green dream.  He also knew when he would die, but he still took that path.  I'm starting to think someone with the powers of Bran is what causes greendreams in others and only a few people are susceptible to receiving them.

I agree. It seems Bran connected Hodor (now) and Walder (in the past), it seems Bran didn't understand how he did it, but also was very confused and shocked that it was he, who made Walder Hodor. That it was he, who broke his mind completely. It was very sad, I cried. I was shocked when Summer died, but Hodor...It is sad, dark, awful... And yes, I think he sacrificed himself to save Bran, he loved him, it seems. 

[jakelamotta]

14 hours ago, Yukle said:

On that, I am really disgusted with the way that D&D flat out say that they're spoiling the books. The book community was really respectful about not ruining things and now that they're ahead, they're always saying,

"GUESS WHAT?! GRRM CONFIRMED THIS! Enjoy your ruined book after we tell you how the entire thing goes! What's that? You were thinking that this plot point will be different in the books? Well hold onto your burning Baratheon children and LISTEN TO OUR SPOILERS INTERWEBZ!"

It kind of feels like the opposite of what book readers did for years.

Haha good one, even in the "spoiler free" forum here there are tons of spoilers and dont get me started about other forums. I remember seeing a post on a forum during season 2 which had the title "Tywin, Lysa and Joffrey dies".

After the red wedding (until now that I have read all the books and and the show has surpassed them) I only visited one GoT related forum and they had super strict rules, you were not allowed to post if you had read the books. You were banned from the sub forum if you posted anything that couldnt be deduced from the show. They had bookreader mods, finally when even that didnt help they went with pre approved posts only. THAT was the only way not getting the book readers to spoil.