Hold the Door!

[The Imp slap]

1 hour ago, jakelamotta said:

Haha good one, even in the "spoiler free" forum here there are tons of spoilers and dont get me started about other forums. I remember seeing a post on a forum during season 2 which had the title "Tywin, Lysa and Joffrey dies".

After the red wedding (until now that I have read all the books and and the show has surpassed them) I only visited one GoT related forum and they had super strict rules, you were not allowed to post if you had read the books. You were banned from the sub forum if you posted anything that couldnt be deduced from the show. They had bookreader mods, finally when even that didnt help they went with pre approved posts only. THAT was the only way not getting the book readers to spoil.

I don't want to be pessimistic but I think the level of spoilers from this season, and the series in general is much higher than just "Hold the door"... it's also in what they choose not to show, skip or butcher. The show makes me feel like Dorne, Jaime's redemption, the direwolves (besides alpha-male Ghost), Uncat, Mance, Jeyne, Rickon, Aegon, the COTF (RIP) etc. won't play a defining enough role in the story's ending to be included which to me (no matter how many character mashups we get) is pretty f*cking telling. 

[House Toad]

1 hour ago, The Imp slap said:

I don't want to be pessimistic but I think the level of spoilers from this season, and the series in general is much higher than just "Hold the door"... it's also in what they choose not to show, skip or butcher. The show makes me feel like Dorne, Jaime's redemption, the direwolves (besides alpha-male Ghost), Uncat, Mance, Jeyne, Rickon, Aegon, the COTF (RIP) etc. won't play a defining enough role in the story's ending to be included which to me (no matter how many character mashups we get) is pretty f*cking telling. 

It was a door and it doesn't take a crystal ball to read many of these futures. We can all play that game it is quite fun comparing to what will be wrote. Many of the blanks have massively been filled in and even with which different routes have become branched by the different versions, if you haven't been following it you will never get there. There is a question about the recent writer block, pressed within the past months, possibly from some the paradoxes created of how precisely he wants to fit juggling all the pieces in towards an ending? Because it was reported he was considering getting another author to help finish it. The way the spoilers have read and the way the game has played with which pieces left, driftwood, that message is on your screen, the books are going to be a lot different towards many of these comparisons though, which is were there is going to be more beauty from this tale.

[Daske]

16 hours ago, Yukle said:

On that, I am really disgusted with the way that D&D flat out say that they're spoiling the books. The book community was really respectful about not ruining things and now that they're ahead, they're always saying,

"GUESS WHAT?! GRRM CONFIRMED THIS! Enjoy your ruined book after we tell you how the entire thing goes! What's that? You were thinking that this plot point will be different in the books? Well hold onto your burning Baratheon children and LISTEN TO OUR SPOILERS INTERWEBZ!"

It kind of feels like the opposite of what book readers did for years.

Nope. Many were careful. But all over the internet there were other book readers that were intentionally spoiling it for anyone and everyone. The lack of respect for other people's enjoyment was disgusting at times.

 

[Lerxst]

Back to the topic... nothing GoT throws at me really shocks me anymore. Oh look! Eddard got beheaded. Hey look, everyone at the wedding got slaughtered. Oh, now Jon Snow got stabbed. 

 

It's too commonplace at this point to even elevate my heart rate anymore.

[Anythingatall]

On 5/24/2016 at 7:42 PM, Daske said:

Nope. Many were careful. But all over the internet there were other book readers that were intentionally spoiling it for anyone and everyone. The lack of respect for other people's enjoyment was disgusting at times.

 

I honestly don't get the big deal about spoilers.  Some of ASOIAF was spoiled for me and some wasn't.  I can't say that reading Ned Starks death when I knew it was coming was less entertaining than reading the Red Wedding which I was unaware of.

Don't get me wrong some people don't like spoilers and that's cool.  I try not to spoil things for people when they care about them, it's just not nice to do things that make others unhappy when you have no reason to.  That said SPOILERS  have become some sort of bizarre taboo.  I really think people need to grow up about the whole thing.  It's just entertainment.

[Ty_the_Burnt]

Longtime book-reader, show-watcher, and forum-scrounge, first time contributing comment. Figured it's as good a time as any, what with winter finally come at last and all that. Enjoyed reading the varied discussions thus far and just wanted to express a few stray thoughts.

• In northern Wisconsin, there's a myth of a creature known as a hodag, which is essentially a cross between a bull and a crocodile. One of the previous theories suggested Hodor saw something in the crypts of Winterfell that causes his condition. Didn't truly believe that'd come to fruition, but anything's possible, and with the similarity Hodor always reminding me of hodag, I couldn't help but imagine poor, young Walder (Wyllis) and the hodag having a confrontation. Anyways, moving on...
• So it's basically been confirmed that the Children did indeed create the Others as a last-ditch effort to curb the tide of first men into Westeros, after the Broken Arm and the Neck proved fruitless. Some have said that it's a letdown that the Others really aren't' malevolent after all, and it's actually man who's the antagonist to the natural world. Personally, I find it fitting. If there's any True Detective fans out there, all of it reminds me of the tagline from the first season, "Man is the cruelest animal", which in turn was taken from a quote from Nietzsche. It's not exactly a false statement.
• Finally, if anyone would like to add another dimension to their enjoyment of GOT and ASOIAF, I'd recommend listening to the album 'GODS OF THE EARTH" by THE SWORD. Musically it's not for everyone, though I hope you can at least appreciate it for what it is, but the band and album took heavy influence from ASOIAF and the works of H.P. Lovecraft (how can you go wrong?). Beyond just the style, the lyrics directly reference the source material. A few sample song titles are "To Take the Black", "Maiden, Mother, and Crone", and "Lords". Specifically though, in regards to "The Door" and the remaining season(s), give "HOW HEAVY THIS AXE" a listen; considering the album was released in 2008, it's chillingly spectacular how much that track sets the tone for recent events and the wars still to come.

Well folks, that's all. Thank you for reading and bearing with me. In the future I will practice more brevity. Valar doeharis. 

 

[Yukle]

12 hours ago, TexasDirewolf said:

Not to play Devil's Advocate here but your opinion on the reputation of us book readers isn't exactly on point. Sure, this site made efforts create spoiler free discussion areas for tv viewers. But the GoT IMDb forum, Reddit, Facebook and Twitter (where most go to discuss television) all were littered with book readers who took great joy in sticking their nose up and spoiling moments for tv viewers. I read all of the books after watching Season 1 of GoT and it was common knowledge that you didn't frequent the IMDb board because book readers would spoil things as a way to tout their "knowedge" of the story. I had Ned's death, Theon's betrayal and pieces of the Red Wedding all ruined for me midway through Season 1. 

 

This site is wonderful (and it helps that I've read all of the books now) but book readers most certainly did not have a glowing reputation prior to the show surpassing the books. I'll clarify that I'm not suggesting all or even most book readers were that way. As I said, I became a reader myself. 

Actually, I suppose that's a fair call. Certainly this community was lovely, but you're right Reddit and IMDb were over the top ridiculous when it came to spoilers.

 

That said, there's a difference between a moron on the Net and the show's creators spoiling things. D&D revealing what they've been told in show interviews is the equivalent of GRRM giving a book tour while the show is airing and saying, "I'm looking forward to the end of the season when they'll feed Ramsay to his own dogs."

[Grbauc]

On 5/23/2016 at 7:54 PM, ummester said:

Yea, Hodor saved them - for an instant.

Meh, I still recon bran and the Nights king will reconcile - they are both First Men, after all. Or, Bran might just become powerfull enough to warg the NIghts King - or, when he tries to do so, we find out Bran is the Nights King (that's the trouble with time travel, it opens too many possibilities, even in the one timeline, because time is no longer a constant in the narrative). You can't change the past - but you can hide excuses for the future in it.

Bran has to remember who pushed him out that window yet and I'm pretty sure he'll get shitty when he does. Imagine this - Bran makes a pact with or controls the Nights King somehow and then remembers Jamie pushed him out the window and goes 'fuck it' and unleashes the walkers on King's Landing.

Your just spouting nonsense and in circles. : )

This is not a time travel story your reading way to much in to this.. 

[HellasLEAF]

The hold the door scene, with the stable boy juxtaposed, and Bran, was so well done.  It was a moment up there with Red Wedding for me in terms of shock.  It was emotional.  

I understand GRR will go another way with his Hodor reveal.  

Well I wouldn't normally say this, but that will be hard to top.  (plus shock factor won't be there.  GRR a bit miffed on that one but he sort of admits it's his own fault so..)

[ummester]

1 hour ago, Grbauc said:

Your just spouting nonsense and in circles. : )

This is not a time travel story your reading way to much in to this.. 

Well, you have no way of knowing, do you - because the end of the story isn't known yet. There probably will be more time travel (or time manipulation) - time travel will likely become an element of the story (or at least events in the past linked to Bran's present).

But this is all besides the point - the point is that Hodor's sacrifice brought Meera and Bran mere moments of life, from Bran's perspective, at the time. If you are facing the end with your friends, would you push them in harms way for a few seconds more of life or all go down together?

Obviously not only everyone else thinks his life is more important than theirs - Bran now also believes he is more important than them and that theirs are worth sacrificing for his - even seconds of his.

[GeorgeIAF]

http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/HODOR-BRAN-DOWN-THE-HALL.jpg

 

[House Cambodia]

21 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/HODOR-BRAN-DOWN-THE-HALL.jpg

 

[House Toad]

6 hours ago, Grbauc said:

Your just spouting nonsense and in circles. : )

This is not a time travel story your reading way to much in to this.. 

I wouldn't be so sure about that, time-travel not entirely, time itself, yes. Life rebirth and death. The easy explanation is simpler than the magics invested.

[b00gieman]

Now you guys want to discuss Hodor when I posted what happened before the episode even happened and told you all where the episode came from.  I swear a bunch of haters:

 

sted 12 May · Report post

Potential Spoilers Below

 

First I would like to say that I have always thought that Hodor was the Wheel of Time equivalent of Loial.  But I didn’t have enough material for a blog so I just left it there.  That was until the “Spanish Spoiler” released early information on Hodor.  If you don’t want to see it stop reading now.

 

 

 

OK what I had that linked Hodor and Loial was the fact that when they both went off on their first big adventure they both took off with characters, Bran and Perrin, that could talk with direwolves/wolves and both of these characters found that they had abilities within a dream like world where they can see past, present and future events.  Both of these characters were big and strong but both were initially thought of as gentle giants.  Though both were considered gentle giants it was said and or thought of them that they could be significant warriors.  In keeping with the 180 degree twist Loial is considered a scholar where Hodor is considered a simpleton.

 

 

 

So what was released about Hodor that ties the two books together?

 

 

 

Bran has a vision about the Children of the Forest "doing something", when he awakes, he confronts Leaf or some other Child of the Forest about it, and they explain that they basically created the Others to "protect something", but the Others have turned against them or something. Bran also has a vision of the Night's King and his lieutenants (from trailer), and Night's King senses this (grabbing Bran's arm) and finds out the location of the cave. The wights attack. Not sure what happens to the Children or the Three Eyed Raven, but a battle occurs, and Bran, Summer, and Meera is barely able to flee. Hodor sacrifices himself to hold the "door", so they can escape it seems.

 

 

 

So it seems that Hodor is short for “Hold the Door”.    My original blog on Hodor said that he has a glamour on him but now I believe it could be a compulsion like weave from TWOT.  It now looks as if it was placed upon him by a future Bran trying to get the message through to him but it seems he pushed too hard and the results of Hodor's brain being somewhat scrambled.  Also not that it says that the COTF created the Others; I wrote about that  very thing on April 17, 2016.  What I’m trying to say is that others think I’m crazy but the fact is that key events from TWOT keep finding themselves played out in ASOIAF.

 

 

 

So how does this relate back to TWOT.  For those who haven’t read TWOT you need to know that Perrin is quite fond of Faile at this point in the story and they eventually wed.  For those who have read the books it is known that Bran has grown very fond of Meera.

 

 

 

 

 

“Perrin stared at them, his teeth bared. “What about her?” he demanded. “What was done to her, Moiraine? Is she alive? I cannot see her breathe!”

 

 

 

“She is alive,” Moiraine said slowly. “I cannot, I dare not, go close enough to her to tell much beyond that, but she is alive. She... sleeps, in a way. As a bear sleeps in the winter. Her heart beats so slowly you could count minutes between. Her breathing is the same. She sleeps.” Even from within that hood, he could feel her eyes on him. “I fear she is not there, Perrin. Not in her body any longer.”

 

 

 

“What do you mean she is not in her body? Light! You don't mean they... took her soul. Like the Gray Men!” Moiraine shook her head, and he drew a relieved breath. His chest hurt as if he had not breathed since she last spoke. “Then where is she, Moiraine?”

 

 

 

“I do not know,” she said. “I have a suspicion, but I do not know.”

 

 

 

“A suspicion, a hint, anything! Burn me, where?” Lan shifted at the roughness in his voice, but he knew he would try to break the Warder like iron over a hardy if the man tried to stop him. “Where?”

 

 

 

“I know very little, Perrin.” Moiraine's voice was like cold, unfeeling music. “I have remembered the little I know of what connects a carved hedgehog with Spirit. The carving is a ter'angreal last studied by Corianin Nedeal, the last Dreamer the Tower had. The Talent called Dreaming is a thing of Spirit, Perrin. It is not a thing I have ever studied; my Talents lie in other ways. I believe that Zarine has been trapped inside a dream, perhaps even the World of Dreams, Tel'aran'rhiod. All that is her is inside that dream. All. A Dreamer sends only a part of herself. If Zarine does not return soon, her body will die. Perhaps she will live on in the dream. I do not know.”

 

 

 

“There is too much you don't know,” Perrin muttered. He peered into the room and wanted to cry. Zarine looked so small, lying there, so helpless. Faile. I swear I will only call you Faile, ever again. “Why don't you do something!”

 

 

 

“The trap has been sprung, Perrin, but it is a trap that will still catch anyone who steps into that room. I would not reach her side before it took me. And I have work I must do tonight.”

 

 

 

“Burn you, Aes Sedai! Burn your work! This World of Dreams? Is it like the wolf dreams? You said these Dreamers sometimes saw wolves.”

 

 

 

“I have told you what I can,” she said sharply. “It is time for you to go. Lan and I must be on our way to the Stone. There can be no waiting, now.”

 

 

 

“No.” He said it quietly, but when Moiraine opened her mouth, he raised his voice. “No! I will not leave her!”

 

 

 

The Aes Sedai took a deep breath. “Very well, Perrin.” Her voice was ice; calm, smooth, cold. “Remain if you wish. Perhaps you will survive this night. Lan!”

 

 

 

“She and the Warder strode down the hall to their rooms. In moments they returned, Lan wearing his colorchanging cloak, and vanished down the stairs without another word to him.

 

 

 

He stared through the open door at Faile. I have to do something. If it is like the wolf dreams…”

 

 

 

“Perrin,” came Loial's deep rumble, “what is this about Faile?” The Ogier came striding down the hall in his shirtsleeves, ink on his fingers and a pen in his hand. “Lan told me I had to go, and then he said something about Faile, in a trap. What did he mean?”

 

 

 

Distractedly, Perrin told him what Moiraine had said. It might work. It might. It has to! He was surprised when Loial growled.

 

 

 

“No! Perrin, it is not right! Faile was so free. It is not right to trap her!”

 

 

 

“Perrin peered up at Loial's face, and suddenly remembered the old stories that claimed Ogier were implacable enemies. Loial's ears had laid back along the sides of his head, and his broad face was as hard as an anvil.

 

 

 

“Loial, I am going to try to help Faile. But I will be helpless myself while I do. Will you guard my back?”

 

 

 

“Loial raised those huge hands that held books so carefully, and his thick fingers curled as if to crush stone. “None will pass me while I live, Perrin. Not Myrddraal or the Dark One himself.” He said it like a simple statement of fact.

 

 

 

Perrin nodded, and looked through the door again. It has to work. I don't care if Min warned me against her or not! With a snarl he leaped toward Faile, stretching out his hand. He thought he touched her ankle before he was gone.”

 

 

 

Loial did not die and Perrin did free Faile but this is the event in TWOT that inspired Hodor only saying“Hodor” IMO.  Since they haven't mentioned it and it has been mentioned that the Others were created to "protect something" might it not be something like the Bowl of Winds in TWOT that was used to control the weather.  It could be the thing that they use to bring the cold.

 

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I believe that ASOIAF will end in a similar fashion as The Wheel of Time book series.

It is uncanny at how many major story arcs mirror each other.

I am one of the biggest fans of ASOIAF and don't believe it sacrilege to compare the the two book series.

I can only ask you to look at the material presented with an open mind.

http://howthegameofthronesends.blogspot.com/

[Hodor's Aunt]

On 24.5.2016 at 9:14 AM, kafkascoat said:

How did he get beyond the Wall? Or is it like a lobster trap? You can go in, but not back out again? 

Honest question btw. I need to reread a few of the books!

Spoiler

Coldhands is presumably a ranger of the Night's Watch who got killed ranging north of the wall and then was resurrected. Either by the Other (doesn't make much sense) or by team Bloodraven/CotF. As he after his resurrection is a "magic creature" he can't pass the wall any more. He tells this Sam and Bran explicitly. 

 

[b00gieman]

16 minutes ago, Hodor's Aunt said:

  Hide contents

Coldhands is presumably a ranger of the Night's Watch who got killed ranging north of the wall and then was resurrected. Either by the Other (doesn't make much sense) or by team Bloodraven/CotF. As he after his resurrection is a "magic creature" he can't pass the wall any more. He tells this Sam and Bran explicitly. 

 

Coldhands was created by Bran himself.  He refers to himself as "Bran's Monster".  Bran will keep going back to try and fix things and will inadvertently become all the famous Bran's throughout their history.  I posted all this stuff but the moderators keep deleting it.  IMO they do it because they know I am right and ASOIAF is just a companion/retelling of the Wheel of Time.  Like the one who's name must be spoken in the Game of Thrones aka Bran himself if you haven't figured it out that is what they have basically did to me.  Delete all my threads so that nothing seems to make sense.  Delete me from history and try and forget I even existed.  But I have enough people out there who know the truth so I am content no matter what they do to me on this forum.

[House Toad]

1 hour ago, b00gieman said:

Coldhands was created by Bran himself.  He refers to himself as "Bran's Monster".  Bran will keep going back to try and fix things and will inadvertently become all the famous Bran's throughout their history.  I posted all this stuff but the moderators keep deleting it.  IMO they do it because they know I am right and ASOIAF is just a companion/retelling of the Wheel of Time.  Like the one who's name must be spoken in the Game of Thrones aka Bran himself if you haven't figured it out that is what they have basically did to me.  Delete all my threads so that nothing seems to make sense.  Delete me from history and try and forget I even existed.  But I have enough people out there who know the truth so I am content no matter what they do to me on this forum.

Because you are also quite incorrect and maybe your attitude hasn't helped? Has it been spoiled that the show is using Coldhands, hasn't the author said something else about Benjen? Maybe that placement is a placement for somebody else. Who knows. Although you haven't even begin to fathom most of the opposites. There is light and dark, fire and ice, 2 halves of a coin. There is vast differences between OMG not the Wheel of Time.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

Just for the fun of it....

HODOR IKEA Image

[Charles Stuart]

I actually don't really regard Bran as a time traveller since he isn't actually physically "travelling" to any point in time. All he is effectively doing is time "viewing" since he is going to specific moments in time watching what occurred without being able to change anything. People can say sure, hodor became hodor due to Bran but that was always going to happen since it was a fixed time loop bound to occur.

[House Toad]

19 minutes ago, Charles Stuart said:

I actually don't really regard Bran as a time traveller since he isn't actually physically "travelling" to any point in time. All he is effectively doing is time "viewing" since he is going to specific moments in time watching what occurred without being able to change anything. People can say sure, hodor became hodor due to Bran but that was always going to happen since it was a fixed time loop bound to occur.

It is quite mind boggling and time bending at the same time. The 3ER uses a magical warren, in the definition of a passage through time via the heart-trees. He can guide time, pass through time. because he is using it. But a paradox was created via man being sacrifice into the heart-trees giving them their name and worship, also corrupting them because the heart-trees now bleed and WWs have spawned.

Hodor wasn't always going to occur because it is a paradox. Hadn't time been manipulated the loop would not have occurred and the past's present would not have been changed?

What does this mean a million questions and assumptions.