What was Bloodraven showing Bran that was so important (SPOILERS)

[ricardoromell]

What was Bloodraven showing Bran that was so important is the question no one seems to be asking.

What was so important to show Bran before he left the cave on the brink of death.

It looked, like a parting scene with grandpa Rickard stark and Ned/Brandon/Benjen  

[GeorgeIAF]

3 hours ago, ricardoromell said:

What was Bloodraven showing Bran that was so important is the question no one seems to be asking.

What was so important to show Bran before he left the cave on the brink of death.

It looked, like a parting scene with grandpa Rickard stark and Ned/Brandon/Benjen  

I posted this on another thread : 

BR took Bran to Winterfell to make sure he will link the past with the present. He knew Hodor is the only hope for them to escape, and he knew that Hodor's mind will be messed up. For Bran to escape, Hodor had to be slow and narrowminded, because if he was a normal person, Bran could never warg him and have such a strong ally who could carry him everywhere and so on. If Bran didn't warg Hodor in the vision, he would have been helpless since he had noone to rely upon and to keep him safe. Actually, if he didn't warg Hodor, he would have fucked up the timeline, now everything is as it should be.

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[ricardoromell]

12 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

I posted this on another thread : 

BR took Bran to Winterfell to make sure he will link the past with the present. He knew Hodor is the only hope for them to escape, and he knew that Hodor's mind will be messed up. For Bran to escape, Hodor had to be slow and narrowminded, because if he was a normal person, Bran could never warg him and have such a strong ally who could carry him everywhere and so on. If Bran didn't warg Hodor in the vision, he would have been helpless since he had noone to rely upon and to keep him safe. Actually, if he didn't warg Hodor, he would have fucked up the timeline, now everything is as it should be.

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That makes some sense, i was referring to what could that that parting scene contain, before willis enters. Would that be of any consequence.

[GeorgeIAF]

Just now, ricardoromell said:

That makes some sense, i was referring to what could that that parting scene contain, before willis enters. Would that be of any consequence.

Maybe to show Rickard's personality ... "Make sure you win the tourney" or something like that ... I guess BR took him there just to make sure he will mess up Hodor and in this way provide an aide to him.

[Morbanth]

I think he was showing Bran, using the quickest possible way, that he 1) can affect the past, even if he can't change it 2) why he fucking shouldn't.

[GeorgeIAF]

Just now, Morbanth said:

I think he was showing Bran, using the quickest possible way, that he 1) can affect the past, even if he can't change it 2) why he fucking shouldn't.

Yep i think that's why he took the risk of them being killed by the WW. Showing Bran this was way more important, and also that was the part of knowledge he transferred to Bran. The knowledge of what happens when you try to change the past, and when you stay too long in a vision.

[Mish Windage]

So if Bran were to go back and find the Mad King somewhere in the past where he can get to him, he could change everything?

[dantares83]

that nobody can change the past and affect the future

 

Bran is a greenseer (and possibly the most powerful ever was) and seers will be tempted to change the past 

he is show Bran that despite knowing that he is the one who literally cause Hordor to lose his mind and life and also the lives of the others, he must still do it. this is destiny and no one should change it even if u already know.

BR knows he is going to die but still he did not fringe away. 

[Mourneblade]

38 minutes ago, dantares83 said:

that nobody can change the past and affect the future

 

Bran is a greenseer (and possibly the most powerful ever was) and seers will be tempted to change the past 

he is show Bran that despite knowing that he is the one who literally cause Hordor to lose his mind and life and also the lives of the others, he must still do it. this is destiny and no one should change it even if u already know.

BR knows he is going to die but still he did not fringe away. 

Exactly.

The past is already written for the present. Anything Bran alters in the past has already impacted the preset. It means that Bran's fate is already predetermined, and anything he does or does not do in the past has already taken shape in the present.

 

For a somewhat witty, and funny way of understanding this, watch the end of Bill and Teds Bogus Journey.

[Not a kneeler]

I absolutely hate time travel gimmicks.

When I realized that BR was showing Bran the consequences of even unintentionally altering the past, it gave me hope that George doesn't somehow resort to a cheap trick like having Bran change some event in the past to save the present. BR was constantly saying that the past is writ in ink. Cannot be changed. Hopefully Bran realized this.

In the past Bran caused Hodor to lose the power of speech, but he (Hodor) may have had the same fate - to carry Bran to the far north, and to die in the cave.

[ErasmusF]

I think also to show him that time is not how we perceive it to be. In the book when Bran gets to the cave he learns that the Weirnet can see through time, both forward and backward. 

And to show him how powerful he is as a skinchanger - he is able to skinchange across time, linking Hodor in the present to Hodor of the future. 

[jahba]

I think they are right, it was intended to be the final lesson from BR to Bran. But still I think it was a pivotal point with some emotional meaning. It is definitely Eddard leaving to the Vale, fostered by Lord Jon Arryn at the Eyrie at the age of eight, saying goodbye to Rickard and Benjen.

[robasp2]

Just to throw a few things in there.

1. "No.. He TOUCHED you" - He could know this only if he was bran, or any of the WWs or whights in that scene.

2. Bran has still not woken up. D&D explained in a video that it is extremely fast knowwledge transfer going on. Probably bran is doing an Inception. A lifetime in the dream is just a few seconds in real life.

So I say, 

 

1)3ER placed him just at the beginning from where bran should learn EVERYTHING about what has happened.

2) 3ER was the future bran who lives who warged into the old man. That way both arethe same person. The time lines are not messed. everything is fine.And thats why he kne w that he was touched.

 

I see this as the most probable one...

Thoughts?

[i_am_no_one]

54 minutes ago, robasp2 said:

Just to throw a few things in there.

1. "No.. He TOUCHED you" - He could know this only if he was bran, or any of the WWs or whights in that scene.

2. Bran has still not woken up. D&D explained in a video that it is extremely fast knowwledge transfer going on. Probably bran is doing an Inception. A lifetime in the dream is just a few seconds in real life.

So I say, 

 

1)3ER placed him just at the beginning from where bran should learn EVERYTHING about what has happened.

2) 3ER was the future bran who lives who warged into the old man. That way both arethe same person. The time lines are not messed. everything is fine.And thats why he kne w that he was touched.

 

I see this as the most probable one...

Thoughts?

I never got the impression that the 3ER was Bran. I think it's probable he knew the NK had touched Bran bc it's his cave and he could sense a disturbance in (the force) its protection. He knew immediately that his home was now vulnerable to the NK. 

The thing with time travel is that whoever is writing the content can really make their own rules. So going from book to book or show to show or film to film, whatever, the "rules" of time travel aren't set in stone. Here is my take on GOT time travel, and I have seen several ppl on the forum pretty well nail it. I have found it to be much like the explanation of time travel in LOST (particularly I'd like to reference Miles an Hurley's debate on it 

I don't think it's exactly the same since, well, it's a different story and the LOST ppl aren't invisible to the ppl they are seeing in the past, they are actual moving pieces of the action. 

ANYWAY...sorry I got excited to reference LOST lol)

Bran in no way altered the past. That always happened. When young Ned went off to the Eyrie, future Bran was always there, affecting young Hodor. That's the way it's always been. And at the ToJ, Ned ALWAYS heard that faint calling to him that didn't seem to make sense.

I think BR was showing this to Bran bc he knew, he always knew, that this had to go down. He knew Hodor would have to become Hodor so he could keep Bran safe and get Bran to the cave and learn his destiny. He knew Hodor would have to die to allow Bran and Meera enough time to escape. So this showed Bran, among other things, that there must be sacrifices, even of those he loves dearly, in order for Bran to, essentially, save humanity. 

I reallllllly liked what Rickard Stark told young Ned in this seemingly unimportant scene: Don't pick fights. But if you have to fight...WIN. Bran must fight. And he must win. 

[JonisHenryTudor]

7 hours ago, ricardoromell said:

That makes some sense, i was referring to what could that that parting scene contain, before willis enters. Would that be of any consequence.

Personally. A final reminder not to forget the ToJ. He knew he was dead, and it was not the time to explain what Bran should or should not do. He took him back to Winterfell, but at the right point. I think seeing his gpa and father, etc is BR's last bit of help. Once things calm, I can see Bran returning to the ToJ. 

[robasp2]

So why did 3ER wait a thousand years?

Why did he specefically need Bran? Why did he teach him so little? 

Why did he say, "No, you are not ready" and immediately show him winterfell? Just so that he could warg hodor?

Hmmm. I dont believe that.

Something with deeper meaning lies there..

[ebourget]

7 hours ago, ricardoromell said:

That makes some sense, i was referring to what could that that parting scene contain, before willis enters. Would that be of any consequence.

"Remember that you are a Stark. Comport yourself with dignity of the Vale and try to stay out of fights.  But if you have to fight, Win."

I think it's a message that Jon needs to hear.   A message that Ned didn't teach his sons, that Survival and winning, at the end of the day, mean more than your stupid honor, that ends can justify the means.   I dunno, When I heard the line it really struck me as something Jon needed to hear.

[AegonBurzumOfTheLightsBane]

Everyone has covered the whole bootstrap/ontological paradox angle pretty well already, doing something in the past that always had occured to lead you onto the path to be able to do the thing in the first place..
 

But i think Rickards line referenced D&D's angle they were taking with Ned at the Tower of Joy scene, & tying it to that flashback.1

 Win at any costs..hence the scene with Howland & him taking out Arthur Dayne..'tarnishing his honor' to win nomatter what & save Lyanna. (even though it became a 1v1 it started as a melee & wasn't THAT dishonorable.

It was cool finally seeing Brandon & Rickard, even just for a second & in the background.

[ShadowKitteh]

On May 23, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Mish Windage said:

So if Bran were to go back and find the Mad King somewhere in the past where he can get to him, he could change everything?

If Bran could go back in time and change things, he could prevent Lyanna and Rhaegar from meeting, and basically do a DALLAS all over Game of Thrones, like nothing ever happened, and it was all a dream.

I hope that doesn't happen.

[Neds Secret]

On 23 May 2016 at 0:18 AM, Mish Windage said:

So if Bran were to go back and find the Mad King somewhere in the past where he can get to him, he could change everything?

No, going by what we were shown then Bran might have already influenced what happened with the mad King. Whatever has happened to get Bran to the point he is currently at will always happen because we must assume that whatever actions Bran may taken to affect the past have already happened and it all led to Bran being at the point he is at now. Otherwise he would not be here, where he is now.