[SPOILER] Can someone explain the ending of today's episode?

[Sansa_In_Black]

Brilliant reading in here. 
I was sooo confused - maybe still confused - but have really enjoyed the read. Thank you. 

[athmystikal]

I think a simpler and straight forward explanation is to scrap the idea of Bran warging into Hodor in the past (young Hodor). I would like to believe that Bran warged into Hodor(old Hodor) in the present only. What happened at Winterfell was Hodor having a vision of his future (similar to how Bran foresaw Theon taking over Winterfell - in the show). He saw and felt the terrible destiny waiting for him. This made him a simpleton. Bran just happened it see it all.

If you watch the scene again, you will find that Bran warged into present day Hodor first. It is only later that he seemingly warged into young Hodor. So Bran did not need to warg into young Hodor to control old Hodor.

Another possibility is that 3EC warged into Hodor before Bran was born and shattered his mind so that he would be useful to Bran. This might explain the apologetic look on his face when Bran first saw Hodor in his visions (past episode).

This is just my interpretation. I hope we get more explanation in the coming episodes.

 

 

[athmystikal]

11 hours ago, D2procon said:

Here is what I got out of it. Bran and 3EC warged into the past. Young hodor was going along his business. SOmehow someway (maybe he is a greenseer? who knows) Wyllis saw his future demise and heard meera yell hold the door. This shock value causes him to seize and become the simple man he is. So technically Bran did not alter the past.

I like this. This is simpler and easy to understand. Also there is no time travel. The introduction of time travel usually makes everything inconsistent. I am okey with seeing the past through Weirnet, but making an influence in the past is too sci-fi

[sunstonekey]

Play by play as I see it:

Bran is in a vision with the Three-Eyed Raven.
Bran hears Meera commanding him to warg into Hodor.
Bran either chooses not to leave the vision or is unable to.
The 3ER tells Bran, "Listen to your friend, Brandon."
Bran manages to warg into Hodor as Hodor's eyes gleam white for a moment.
Bran's consciousness is in both the vision and Hodor.
At some point between then and the door Bran could have left Hodor's mind.
The 3ER tells Bran, "The time has come.  Leave me," and is killed by a White Walker.
Meera commands Hodor, "Hold the door!"
Bran turns around to find that Wylis sees him.  Meera's voice can be heard in the vision.
Wylis's eyes gleam white as if he is warging into future Hodor.
I think Wylis experienced Hodor's body being killed, damaging him forever,
but Bran could have been warging into both Wylis and Hodor simultaneously.
Meera and Wylis shout together, "Hold the door!"

I also think it's possible the 3ER warged himself into either Wylis or Hodor.

[Yukle]

That's a pretty good summary. The alternate theory of course is that Old Biff went into the past and gave the Almanac to himself so he'd know all of the sports results in advance. So Marty and Doc have to fix up the timeline by going back to 12th November 1955.

I can't understand why Bran didn't take spare plutonium with him when he went to the Wall in order for the time machine to have enough energy to return.

Or was it that his TARDIS was jammed into the Looper device? And the Terminator appeared all naked and tried to kill Bran's mother before he was born...

I need a moment to work it all out...

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

in the books, Blood Raven explains to Bran that time is not linear like "water flowing in the river"...it is cyclical, the example he gives is that the acorn contains within it the tree, and the tree contains the acorn, aka, there's no beginning and end, but a repeating cycle.  So, because time is not linear, a lot of seemingly paradoxical things are possible.  GRRM has kind of played with "time" before, specifically in a Clash of Kings where Melissandre tells Stannis that if he didn't confront renly at Storm's End first, and instead attacked King's Landing, she saw a vision in the flames of Renly defeating Stannis at King's Landing, but, she continues, if stannis confronts renly, he will win over his allies.  While Mel makes it seem like these events are on two, separate, possible timelines, in reality, we now know that both events happened on the same timeline...not a paradox in the same way as the hodor thing, but definitely an instance previously in the books where GRRM does some interesting things with "time".

[Forlong the Fat]

1 hour ago, athmystikal said:

I think a simpler and straight forward explanation is to scrap the idea of Bran warging into Hodor in the past (young Hodor). I would like to believe that Bran warged into Hodor(old Hodor) in the present only. What happened at Winterfell was Hodor having a vision of his future (similar to how Bran foresaw Theon taking over Winterfell - in the show). He saw and felt the terrible destiny waiting for him. This made him a simpleton. Bran just happened it see it all.

If you watch the scene again, you will find that Bran warged into present day Hodor first. It is only later that he seemingly warged into young Hodor. So Bran did not need to warg into young Hodor to control old Hodor.

Another possibility is that 3EC warged into Hodor before Bran was born and shattered his mind so that he would be useful to Bran. This might explain the apologetic look on his face when Bran first saw Hodor in his visions (past episode).

This is just my interpretation. I hope we get more explanation in the coming episodes.

 

 

How is it a simpler explanation that Hodor had a power there was never any evidence he had, and that we've been told perhaps one on a million people have. Hodor was not a Greenseer. 

[athmystikal]

3 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

How is it a simpler explanation that Hodor had a power there was never any evidence he had, and that we've been told perhaps one on a million people have. Hodor was not a Greenseer. 

The text does not say he had no such skills. Blood of the first men runs through his veins. They also mention that he has giants blood (jokingly). When Bran first had these visions while in comma, he thought they were just dreams. So  Hodor could have such abilty without him knowing about it. But you are right, we never had any hint pointing toward this. But I prefer it to infinite time loops.

If we accept that Hodor did not have such ability  and did not see his future, then we can assume that it was Bloodraven who warged into Hodor. But he did that before Bran was born. Bloodraven planned this whole thing. He made Hodor the way he is so that Bran could use him to reach the 3EC. When Bloodraven first meets Bran in person, he tells him 'I've been waiting for you....'. This season he said something along the lines of 'I have been waiting for thousands of years'. I get the feeling that Bloodraven had been influencing individuals for quite a long while so that he can get Bran across the wall. What I am trying to say is Bloodraven visited young Hodor on the day Ned left for the Eyrie and shattered his mind and implanted the command 'Hold the Door'. 3EC might be responsible for Patchface as well.

 

[Forlong the Fat]

3 minutes ago, athmystikal said:

The text does not say he had no such skills. Blood of the first men runs through his veins. They also mention that he has giants blood (jokingly). When Bran first had these visions while in comma, he thought they were just dreams. So  Hodor could have such abilty without him knowing about it. But you are right, we never had any hint pointing toward this. But I prefer it to infinite time loops.

If we accept that Hodor did not have such ability  and did not see his future, then we can assume that it was Bloodraven who warged into Hodor. But he did that before Bran was born. Bloodraven planned this whole thing. He made Hodor the way he is so that Bran could use him to reach the 3EC. When Bloodraven first meets Bran in person, he tells him 'I've been waiting for you....'. This season he said something along the lines of 'I have been waiting for thousands of years'. I get the feeling that Bloodraven had been influencing individuals for quite a long while so that he can get Bran across the wall. What I am trying to say is Bloodraven visited young Hodor on the day Ned left for the Eyrie and shattered his mind and implanted the command 'Hold the Door'. 3EC might be responsible for Patchface as well.

 

That's a bass ackwards way to look at it. Are we to assume that everyone without proof of absence of Greenseer ability is a Greenseer? And what does blood of Giants or first men have to do with it? Are Giants Greenseers? Or first men?  

Nor is there any evidence that Bloodraven warged into Hodor. The evidence is that Bran's actions, while traveling to a time before his birth, caused an intolerable stress in Hodor by warging him in a way that connected his mind to past and present. Greenseers can do that sort of thing. Normal people can't. Put differently, if Hodor had the power of future vision, having a future vision wouldn't have busted his brain. He didn't have that power, so his brain busted. 

[athmystikal]

1 hour ago, Forlong the Fat said:

That's a bass ackwards way to look at it. Are we to assume that everyone without proof of absence of Greenseer ability is a Greenseer? And what does blood of Giants or first men have to do with it? Are Giants Greenseers? Or first men?  

Nor is there any evidence that Bloodraven warged into Hodor. The evidence is that Bran's actions, while traveling to a time before his birth, caused an intolerable stress in Hodor by warging him in a way that connected his mind to past and present. Greenseers can do that sort of thing. Normal people can't. Put differently, if Hodor had the power of future vision, having a future vision wouldn't have busted his brain. He didn't have that power, so his brain busted. 

As I said, that is just the way I see it or understand. You are free to have your own interpretation and that is also equally valid until we get more information which proves one the theories (out of the many) is true.

As to your question, yes Blood of the first men is rather important to the story. We have been told that they are more likely  to be wargs and have green dreams. Jojen had visions although he was not as powerful as Bran. Jon is a warg and so are many wildlings.

This is from the wiki:

Quote

One in a thousand men is born a skinchanger and one skinchanger in a thousand is born a greenseer.^[4] It is also known that humans can be born greenseers just as they are born wargs.

So there can be many greenseers. Bran just happened to be extremely powerful All I am trying to say is Hodor could have seen the future. Its just one of the possible explanations.

If that is not the case, then Bloodraven can definitely do that. He has been shown to have extreme powers. He could show people dreams and talk to them via dreams.

[GeorgeIAF]

BR knew Hodor was needed to save Bran, that's why he took Bran to Winterfell and stayed locked in the vision risking their death. When he says "Listen to your friend, Bran" he basically suggests warging Hodor to him.

[ShadowKitteh]

18 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

You should watch the "inside the episode" after. According to that, 3EC was "uploading" himself into Bran.

Whichever one suggested that, has read the Dune series too many times.

[Parkourya Stark]

Also, how the hell are they going to outrun the WW with just a one-minute head-start? Hodor had to pull bran and they were slow, there's is no way they can outrun them (even with the big-man RIP they wouldn't be able to) unless they have LF's teleporter. Particularly as Bran has Lord Voldemort's mark on him now.

[Rhollo]

1 hour ago, SteveD said:

Also, how the hell are they going to outrun the WW with just a one-minute head-start? Hodor had to pull bran and they were slow, there's is no way they can outrun them (even with the big-man RIP they wouldn't be able to) unless they have LF's teleporter. Particularly as Bran has Lord Voldemort's mark on him now.

Maybe we get Coldhands arriving late with starbucks and saving them ?

[House Cambodia]

1 hour ago, SteveD said:

Also, how the hell are they going to outrun the WW with just a one-minute head-start? Hodor had to pull bran and they were slow, there's is no way they can outrun them (even with the big-man RIP they wouldn't be able to) unless they have LF's teleporter. Particularly as Bran has Lord Voldemort's mark on him now.

A 'knight in shining armour' does turn up - if you don't know I won't spoil it. 

[43ry5274rg4ry3n]

22 hours ago, Lady Mary of Queens said:

Not since LOST has my brain been this fried from working out the timeline. Beautifully and tragically laid out.

I just hope this is not the way the story breaks down from now on. Paradox and several timelines etc. are 99 parts tragic 1 part beautiful and I hope they stay out of GoT especially in the books. 

PS Same here with Lost I watched the whole series to simply quit just before the last season because I was fed up!

[Parkourya Stark]

13 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

A 'knight in shining armour' does turn up - if you don't know I won't spoil it. 

Ok thanks

[Elaena Targaryen]

22 hours ago, Ninerings said:

I want to know why Bran was crying watching Hodor become Hodor. I think that says a lot about what is going on. Though I still can't wrap my head around what was supposed to be happening. 

I think one reason is Bran could feel Hodor's fear because of the link from the warg bond. Bran also knew what was happening but he was unable to stop it.

In ep2 (also a Patchface connection) the 3EC says "It is beautiful beneath the sea, but if you stay too long, you'll drown." So Bran knows because he's linked to Hodor that is too much for him and Hodor is "drowning."

In ep3 the 3EC says "I've told you many times, stay too long where you don't belong and you will never return." So Bran has heard several times that this can happen and because of the link Hodor is somewhere he does not belong and he was never returned - was lost in the "hold the door" moment like it was imprinted on him.

It effected Willis because of the time flow of the weirwood which Bran, and by extension Hodor, was also linked to.

18 hours ago, AnarchoPrimitiv said:

in the books, Blood Raven explains to Bran that time is not linear like "water flowing in the river"...it is cyclical, the example he gives is that the acorn contains within it the tree, and the tree contains the acorn, aka, there's no beginning and end, but a repeating cycle.  So, because time is not linear, a lot of seemingly paradoxical things are possible.  

 "Time is different for a tree than for a man. Sun and soil and water, these are the things a weirwood understands, not days and years and centuries. For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction. The lives of trees are different. They root and grow and die in one place, and that river does not move them. The oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak. And the weirwood … a thousand human years are a moment to a weirwood, and through such gates you and I may gaze into the past.”

[Nev yn]

On 5/24/2016 at 5:13 PM, Ninerings said:

I want to know why Bran was crying watching Hodor become Hodor. I think that says a lot about what is going on. Though I still can't wrap my head around what was supposed to be happening. 

He finally figured out that he's the one that broke Hodor's brain when he was young, and it was both his fault that he was unable to communicate and his fault that he was sacrificing him in the future to save himself and Meera.

Sometimes the simplest answers are the closest to true.  Anything further than this is extremely speculative. 

[athmystikal]

I hope GRRM ditch the idea of all this time travel. As many have mentioned, the introduction of such mechanisms usually convolutes the story and fails to provide a proper closure. There will be lot more questions than answers at the end. My brain is not developed enough to comprehend the idea that Bran warged Hodor in the past which made him that way and it was all cyclical. I think I will just believe that 3EC warged Hodor a long time ago and he just wanted Bran to see it and understand how dangerous it could be.